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Skywalker

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #90 - 09/08/13 at 17:55:27

Courier wrote on 09/07/13 at 23:34:30:

I've always kind of wanted to do the small car battles. I think that's a good idea. I'd be interested if the timing worked out.

kzing7

We would only need a few people to start a unranked public room and call it 'Small Cars Only' or something.

If we got a full room here then we could just use a password and not worry about random people.

I'll start adding PSN names. Mine is Zahtara

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Skywalker

The Ghost of Lance Armstrong's Cancer

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #91 - 09/08/13 at 18:12:57

GeneralChaz9 wrote on 09/08/13 at 16:20:30:

Love the idea, but what are the small cars?

Damn that's a good question. I mean, I automatically have a list in my head for what the small vehicles are. When I started scrolling through them and studying the stats though it wasn't as easy. Outlaw for example I wasn't sure of. He's in that all medium-type of range, and since the small vehicles are well below that, I consider him a big vehicle. Death Warrant has good armor and speed, but his special is such crap that it's enough to put him in the small vehicle category.

I think this is a pretty accurate list of 'small' vehicles (I also know that the displayed stats in the game are off. Give or take. I know there's a couple lists around this site that give specific numbers. Not sure how current they are)

Small Vehicles (in no particular order)

- Death Warrant
- Roadkill
- Kamikaze
- Axel
- Crimson Fury
- Reaper

Like I said I don't know the exact numbers and specs to all vehicles in the game, so this is all debatable

If there is a good Reaper in the room he'll have a field day with one-hitting cars. I wasn't even sure if he should be included, but as far as small vehicles go he's the smallest, so yeah.

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GeneralChaz9

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #92 - 09/09/13 at 21:41:43

Skywalker wrote on 09/08/13 at 18:12:57:

Damn that's a good question. I mean, I automatically have a list in my head for what the small vehicles are. When I started scrolling through them and studying the stats though it wasn't as easy. Outlaw for example I wasn't sure of. He's in that all medium-type of range, and since the small vehicles are well below that, I consider him a big vehicle. Death Warrant has good armor and speed, but his special is such crap that it's enough to put him in the small vehicle category.

I think this is a pretty accurate list of 'small' vehicles (I also know that the displayed stats in the game are off. Give or take. I know there's a couple lists around this site that give specific numbers. Not sure how current they are)

Small Vehicles (in no particular order)

- Death Warrant
- Roadkill
- Kamikaze
- Axel
- Crimson Fury
- Reaper

Like I said I don't know the exact numbers and specs to all vehicles in the game, so this is all debatable

If there is a good Reaper in the room he'll have a field day with one-hitting cars. I wasn't even sure if he should be included, but as far as small vehicles go he's the smallest, so yeah.

Great idea, but take Axel out. I would throw him in the medium range. Axel's crush special can combo up to 100 or more, which can cause 300+ damage if he combos enough vehicles in time, plus his armor a bit strong for the other cars.

I would say add Road Boat to replace Axel, but Road Boat is a tank with his armor. It's a tough call.

BTW, my PSN is GeneralChaz9. I won't be on much unless it's late night or weekends.

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"They say that the mind bends and twists to deal with the horrors of life.... sometimes it bends so much it snaps in two." PSN: GeneralChaz9 Add me, especially if you want to play Twisted Metal!

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Muddeh

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #93 - 09/10/13 at 01:27:01

I've played a couple of unranked matches with a similar concept before, and they definitely make pretty unique battles. However, there is no real doubt that Roadkill and Death Warrant would have the immediate upper hand. CF and Kami are typically most effective against the heavier vehicles, seeing that their primary (flamethrower) specials typically have a better time tracking such vehicles, and their agility is made a far greater asset the greater the disparity is. The same can be said for Reaper, since it is far easier to freehand a flamesaw on a Darkside than on a CF (though the RPG is definitely made more effective, but is time consuming to set up and lure players towards). On the other hand, Roadkill and Death Warrant are still considerably agile, have the strongest armour (and thus the most potential to develop a killstreak), and arguably have the most effective specials in such a match, seeing that the chainguns possess 100% accuracy provided you have a target locked. Axel could be seen as a wild card based on the map, since it's easier to hit more targets with both the primary and secondary specials in tight quarters, so an Axel could certainly dominate a map like Skid Row. With that said, it could still make for a neat event, especially if people cycled through different vehicles, and avoided cooking remote bombs.

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Skywalker

The Ghost of Lance Armstrong's Cancer

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #94 - 09/10/13 at 11:13:08

The more I think about it the more balance I'm starting to see. I think my problem is that I haven't put enough time into the game. There's a pretty steep learning curve, even more so for light vehicles, and It's not one that you can skip over. I'm still competitive though, or was, but nowhere near some of you guys. My skill has dropped from 81 to 53 since I started playing again.

I still think there's too big of a gap between heavy vehicles and light. One that could've been offset by weapon tracking or giving small vehicles more shields, or big vehicles less. I swear, 70% of my attacks are blocked by red shields. Darksides and JYD that seem to have infinite shields. They should only have 1, or 0. Instead they seem to have just as many as me, or more.

This seems like 1 shields too many for an already OP vehicle

Anyway it still sounds like it could be fun. Maybe a scenario if TMA gets together again online.

I was just doing a little offline comparison

- Darkside and Death Warrant have same amount AA
- Death Warrant's turbo lasts for 30sec
- Darkside's turbo lasts for 45sec

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« Last Edit: 09/10/13 at 12:18:37 by Skywalker »

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Muddeh

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #95 - 09/10/13 at 18:35:42

I would agree that the lighter vehicles would be a lot more effective with less energy consumption for shields, and a faster rate of regeneration. Although I can understand why most of the lighter vehicles never got a buff, in anticipation that they would dominate the game once the pros got a handle of them, that was never the case. The lighter vehicles have always been vulnerable to pick-ups and specials that are unavoidable in nature, and it takes very little skill to spam such weapons. For example, a cooked remote bomb, which auto-locks for perfect accuracy every time, can take away over 50% of a Reaper's health, while a freehanded power missile (still a difficult weapon to land, especially with the servers' crappy hit detection) takes away around only 25% of the health of the heavier vehicles. And, of course, getting rammed by laggy opponents, or by a laggy health semi is equally as frustrating. The best way that this could have been combated was by giving these vehicles an energy buff, but I believe that Crimson Fury was the only recipient of such a buff, and considering its alternate special was nerfed as a result of the napalm buff (because residual burn damage does practically nothing now), it really didn't help its cause much.

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RoaDiE

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #96 - 09/11/13 at 16:19:02

Aren't these games all P2P? Dont think server has much to do with it other than a server lobby and doing those connections; once in game lobby its all player-based? From all tests I did anyways (hey i could be wrong)... I kinda concluded hit detection was host based for everything (one exception). If it landed on the host's end, it landed. Just like Gears of War 1.

Story time mode:

One time I was on skype and playing with a buddy, I was axel, he was Meat Wagon.

I was charging towards him with my special on for a crush. On my end, he jumped over my car, and i hit thin air. Yet somehow the game gave me the crush points, counted it, and he died.

On HIS END as well, he jumped my special, and still died.

Neither of us were host... so the only logical conclusion to me was Host has a bit of an advantage... but they chose to offset this advantage by making the host's ps3 crash and freeze a lot! (kidding, but cmon!)

Mort's video kind of solidifed that notion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChMnNNGStiY

On Mort's end he clearly avoided the health semi. On the host's end, Mort's car continued for an extra second BEFORE turning. And thus host's ps3 witnessed Mort take the hit and then swerve to the side injured. Host's PS3 told Mort's PS3 that he was injured, and docked him the health.

It does suck though with laggy hosts and long distances. The rams really wont connect half the time. IMO they should have made an exception and changed the hit detection for rams to client-side. It would make your big dogs better heh (with their already current dmg/health), but ramming wouldn't be fruitless at times.

Many people complained about folks mysteriously getting health but that was an easy one. The only exception to "the host sees the true game" is the health peds. Peds are completely desynced from ps3 to ps3 so someone might seem to grab health from thin air. (it was identical in TM2PC).

I think they shouldve used a Halo approach, where there is no true host advantage. It should be, if a weapon hits you on your own end, it hit. That way if you avoided shit, you avoided it.

I once thought they maybe made everything so damn unavoidable/undodgeable and spammable to simply alleviate player frustration in instances where they think they landed a weapon (on their own end, and it appears that it does) BUT in actuality the other player dodged it on their end and it missed. It also helped mask this terrible hit detection choice. Gotta have dat dodging and driving, or imo its mostly just attrition wars. But I have had a lot of theories on that can of worms, jury is still out Grin

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Skywalker

The Ghost of Lance Armstrong's Cancer

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Re: TMA on TMX
Reply #97 - 09/11/13 at 22:25:44

RoaDiE wrote on 09/11/13 at 16:19:02:

Aren't these games all P2P? Dont think server has much to do with it other than a server lobby and doing those connections; once in game lobby its all player-based? From all tests I did anyways (hey i could be wrong)... I kinda concluded hit detection was host based for everything (one exception). If it landed on the host's end, it landed. Just like Gears of War 1.

Story time mode:

One time I was on skype and playing with a buddy, I was axel, he was Meat Wagon.

I was charging towards him with my special on for a crush. On my end, he jumped over my car, and i hit thin air. Yet somehow the game gave me the crush points, counted it, and he died.

On HIS END as well, he jumped my special, and still died.

Neither of us were host... so the only logical conclusion to me was Host has a bit of an advantage... but they chose to offset this advantage by making the host's ps3 crash and freeze a lot! (kidding, but cmon!)

Mort's video kind of solidifed that notion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChMnNNGStiY

On Mort's end he clearly avoided the health semi. On the host's end, Mort's car continued for an extra second BEFORE turning. And thus host's ps3 witnessed Mort take the hit and then swerve to the side injured. Host's PS3 told Mort's PS3 that he was injured, and docked him the health.

It does suck though with laggy hosts and long distances. The rams really wont connect half the time. IMO they should have made an exception and changed the hit detection for rams to client-side. It would make your big dogs better heh (with their already current dmg/health), but ramming wouldn't be fruitless at times.

Many people complained about folks mysteriously getting health but that was an easy one. The only exception to "the host sees the true game" is the health peds. Peds are completely desynced from ps3 to ps3 so someone might seem to grab health from thin air. (it was identical in TM2PC).

I think they shouldve used a Halo approach, where there is no true host advantage. It should be, if a weapon hits you on your own end, it hit. That way if you avoided shit, you avoided it.

I once thought they maybe made everything so damn unavoidable/undodgeable and spammable to simply alleviate player frustration in instances where they think they landed a weapon (on their own end, and it appears that it does) BUT in actuality the other player dodged it on their end and it missed. It also helped mask this terrible hit detection choice. Gotta have dat dodging and driving, or imo its mostly just attrition wars. But I have had a lot of theories on that can of worms, jury is still out Grin

This game is so frustrating! It's like a bitter sweet. I've been experiencing all these things your talking about. Some of my best games was when I hosted.

Speaking of, if anyone wants to get some TMA on TMX games in before GTA5 comes out I'm down. I'd be happy with just DM and TDM. No rules/restrictions. Maybe special game modes later on.

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TMFan420 Human – Fungus Hybrid Offline I Love Space Jam! Posts: 2	Re: TMA on TMX Reply #98 - 11/19/13 at 15:09:19 Just joined the forums. I know gtav is already out. And I'm loving it, but I started picking TM back up and playing with my girlfriend and want to try playing online again with some tm fans. Not even sure if anyone will even read this but I'm down to play anytime any day! just add me: bongxhits
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Mr.DooM The Ghost of Lance Armstrong's Cancer Offline BLooD MiSSiLeS BaRRaGe oF DooM!!! Posts: 320 Diesel City Gender:	Re: TMA on TMX Reply #99 - 11/21/13 at 21:27:58 You got it man, I'll add you It all worked again for me (Hopefully for a long time now) so see you soon.
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canadiens_8 Superhero Accountant Offline I Love Space Jam! Posts: 63	Re: TMA on TMX Reply #100 - 06/30/14 at 22:45:24 Hey I am a "little" late with this but I'm game. My psn alias is the same as tmbo...." canadiens_8" if anyone from TMA wants to sometime. Add me.
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