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Question: Favorite Recurring Driver (4 game minimum)



« Last Modified by: MoshfieldAsylum on: 10/21/20 at 11:20:25 »

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Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games) (Read 405 times)
MoshfieldAsylum
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Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
10/21/20 at 09:57:09
 
Not many characters appear at least 4 times in the Twisted Metal series. But of those who have, who is your favorite?

* - Bruce is not officially confirmed as the driver of Super Thumper in TM4 but it is implied by the map he appears in (Road Rage/Los Angeles). Also, Bruce in Small Brawl is technically a different character with the same name, but the whole idea of him was that he is like a child version of Bruce Cochrane, so it might as well count.

** - Charlie only sort of qualifies the 4 game minimum. Dark Tooth is not confirmed to be Charlie Kane in TM2 although his claim of being Sweet Tooth's father would imply so. Also, I am not including Charlie Kane from the 2012 reboot, he is different enough a character, although the one thing he has in common with the original character is being related to Sweet Tooth (in a reverse way) and subsequently becoming like him after Sweet Tooth's death (*false death between tm1 & 2), which really links the TMX version more with the original Dark Tooth but not so much the taxi driving Charlie Kane. The youngest son of Charlie in TMB likewise was related to Sweet Tooth and was set on a path to replace him after his death, but Charlie in TMX is essentially another Sweet Tooth and not much of a legit alternate Charlie Kane.

*** - Marcus has been reinvented a couple times. In Black he becomes Minion, the previous year's TM champion, and claims (falsely IMO) that reality is all in the head of Needles Kane. Subsequent games have had Marcus and Needles/Sweet Tooth as the same man although in TMX it is a complete transformation from Marcus to Sweet Tooth, whereas the character has a case of split personality in TMHO.

**** - Carl only has a cameo in TM2 in the Outlaw 2 ending, and the kid in Small Brawl shares his surname so he could be related (son, little brother, nephew?), if not Carl himself when he was young (although Specter's ending suggests Small Brawl probably takes place around the events of Twisted Metal 2, so probably not the case).

Additional Notes:

- Agent Stone is left out because the Crimson Fury and Outlaw version of Stone are different enough, although technically Agent Stone does appear in at least 4 games, w/ the original version appearing in TM1 (driving Crimson Fury), Small Brawl (young counterpart, same name), and Head-On (cameo), while Outlaw-Agent Stone appears in Black, & Lost. 

- Mr. Ash's presence is felt in several games despite never truly being seen when you exclude a dark, shadowy picture and the deleted live-action ending from the original game. He is playable in TM1 of course, as Satan disguised as a man obscured by shadow and smoke, trying to get his stolen demon Black back. His vehicle gets a cameo in a TM2 leaving fans wondering where he was (perhaps Minion was really doing his bidding). In TM3 he appears as a sub-boss and although the driver of DS is confirmed as Mr. Ash (in the manual) we again do not see him. In Small Brawl, Jimmy Ash is presumably Ash/Satan in the form of a child, implied by his mysteriousness and concept art (where he wears a devil mask). Lastly, the demon Black in Twisted Metal: Lost (non-canon) is implied to be the same demon that was created by Mr. Ash that Calypso stole prior to the events of TM1, and in alternate cutscene for Manslaughter in Twisted Metal: Black the narration is done by Black's creator, who maybe was meant to be an alternate version of Mr. Ash.

-Calypso could be considered a recurring driver too, although he is only playable in 1 game, but the rare TM2 tie-in comic book confirmed Calypso as a high skilled driver even without a nuke truck. He won the right to host Twisted Metal by beating Minion in Hell in a vehicular battle, was given the opportunity by the devil to mastermind and manage a demolition derby style contest on Earth. In Twisted Metal Black it reveals in the manual that it was Calypso who modified all the vehicles, so while he is not a contestant in Twisted Metal, his knowledge of car combat is pretty much second to none, and he successfully ran the contest for over a decade (many decades according to TM4 lore, before Sweet Tooth, Melvin, and Micro-Blast's ex-friends ruined the contest by stealing it from Calypso & putting a boss fight on every level.) Calypso also seems to be controlling certain vehicles in the series with his magic, from the helicopters in TM Black, to the hazardous Health Truck semis from the 2012 reboot, to the blimp he flies around in.
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« Last Edit: 10/21/20 at 12:38:21 by MoshfieldAsylum »  
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Kilrgrn
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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #1 - 10/23/20 at 00:19:20
 
Grimm by far. I was tilted when they didn't go with the OG reaper in TMX.

Quote:
"as Satan disguised as a man obscured by shadow and smoke"


Was there anything to state Ash was in fact satan? And not just a higher rank demon that has some power over other demons?

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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #2 - 10/23/20 at 02:36:51
 
Kilrgrn wrote on 10/23/20 at 00:19:20:
Grimm by far. I was tilted when they didn't go with the OG reaper in TMX.


Was there anything to state Ash was in fact satan? And not just a higher rank demon that has some power over other demons?



From the Mr. Ash Wiki page;
"It has been confirmed by David Jaffe that Mr.Ash is Satan."

I can't verify that of course but it would not surprise me if Jaffe did confirm that on Twitter or elsewhere at some point, although Jaffe contradicts his vision in the 2012 reboot by making Calypso the devil.

The canon text ending for Mr. Ash in TM1 does call Black one of his "most powerful demons", so if Mr. Ash ranks above the most powerful demon in Hell he could possibly be Satan.

In the Lost live-action ending Mr. Ash says to Black "I granted you more power than I granted any other demon and YOU left." ...so his ability to grant power in demons seems to suggest Ash could be the devil, although the difference in this ending is the suggestion that Black wanted to leave Hell and took Calypso's side over Mr. Ash's for some reason.

The line I find most interesting though (from canon) is Mr. Ash saying "Your contest, your 'vision', is over for good. See you in Hell Calypso... I'll be waiting."
As I imagine the events, and this is part fan theory, is that when Satan-Ash gave Calypso the opportunity to leave Hell and start his own car combat contest that would cause the kind of death and destruction Satan-Ash approves of that he did not imagine Calypso would steal a powerful magic demon. It's possible maybe Calypso did not initially steal the wish granting demon for several years as the first 8 Twisted Metal contests are a total mystery. We know that Minion, a high ranking demon, won the 9th competition, and that Mr. Ash suddenly joins the contest in its 10th running of the contest. If Calypso had stolen Black for the earlier contests, then you would think Mr. Ash would have entered the contest sooner, but given that he sought out Black in Twisted Metal's 10th year it seems to suggest that Calypso did not have Black around in the early years of the contest and stole him to save his project, since having a wish granting demon similar to a Jinn was something that would motivate drivers he invited to actually participate (if money or whatever the original prizes were wasn't enough motivation).

I like to think that Minion's sudden need for revenge against Calypso was partially encouraged by Mr. Ash. Ash maybe told Minion to interfere in the contest and send Calypso back to Hell if he won.

The 3rd game has Mr. Ash disinterested in Calypso however, but it also has a new right-hand demon for Calypso, the mysterious Primeval. Perhaps Black returned to Hell and Calypso got Primeval, a less powerful demon that Mr. Ash did not mind giving away.

With Twisted Metal 2012 making Calypso the Devil however there is the initial disgusted reaction with how the series treats its characters and stories, but you could just theorize that in the war between Mr. Ash & Calypso that Ash somehow lost to the demonic human sorcerer and Calypso became the King of Hell and as the new Satan he manipulated reality, merged Hell with Earth, along with shifting alternate realities, even breaking the 4th wall by including Playstation games/Twisted Metal 2 & War of the Monsters on display in his trophy case.
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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #3 - 10/23/20 at 05:36:13
 
Kilrgrn wrote on 10/23/20 at 00:19:20:
Grimm by far. I was tilted when they didn't go with the OG reaper in TMX.



TMX (Daniel) Grimm is more like Bruce C. with his street talk style, but with a Ghost Rider 2007 movie kind of back story, with a tragic time travel wish like TMB Agent Stone/TM1 Captain Spears, and he looks like he was part of the Voodoo gang from Predator 2. The only link to the original driver is that his motorcycle is called Reaper like the grim reaper which is what classic Mr. Grimm is.
But TMX was all about amalgamation characters. Everyone would have preferred classic grimm... or even skull-helmet war vet hannibal from TMB.

But yeah, I almost voted for classic Mr. Grimm too but he is the driver that has the most fucked up continuity.
In TM1 it says that Calypso's soul has eluded Mr. Grimm for 100 years, since Mr. Grimm took on the position of grim reaper. I guess originally before TM2 Calypso was supposed to be someone who was over 100 years old that never died, but was assigned to die, & Mr. Grimm needed to go undercover as a TM contestant in order to get near his evasive target.
But this information about Mr. Grimm searching for Calypso for 100 years has been retconned, although TM3 has Mr. Grimm hunting Calypso again just like TM1, except only to get defeated easily, while in an alternate universe classic Grimm has an identity crisis and becomes a pirate with a pet parrot. It's really TM2 and Head-On that flesh out classic Grimm's story best, as an addict of souls who is never truly satisfied no matter how many souls he collects, gets tired of his job and wishes to become human (with unfortunate results), with the grim reaper job being passed on to a little girl chosen by Calypso.

I chose Bruce (Thumper) as my favorite recurring character though, because his wishes cover the basics (the heroic wishes from tm1, the wish for power in 2, the dumb/unnecessary wish from tm3, and his materialistic TMSB wish) so he feels like the most relate-able of the recurring characters and is one of the few characters that work as both a hero and a villain.
In the TM1 canon ending he wants to end the violence in his neighborhood that stems from a decade of enduring the annual Twisted Metal contest. Bruce says Calypso kept his word on granting his wish but there is a lack of details on the aftermath. His alternate High Octane lost ending has Bruce (and a friend) rescuing his girlfriend and being portrayed as merciful when the opportunity for revenge arose. Following the events however Bruce becomes selfish and power crazed, wishing to rule the world without realizing there is nothing left to rule if he wins. But as that never comes to be Bruce calms down and goes back to chilling with his friends, smoking a lot of weed presumably, enters Twisted Metal again to protect his neighborhood or maybe it was more out of pride, and meets his (non-canon) violent end when Calypso kills him off.
As for his TM4 Super Thumper counterpart, I think Bruce was probably protecting his neighborhood in that boss fight, and not really a contestant.
Kind of wish Thumper was not cut from TM Black and there was a horror version of Bruce. He also was meant to be in the roster of the canned Twisted Metal: Apocalypse as a leader of a post apocalyptic urbanized zone, which would have been fitting for the character, but oh well.
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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #4 - 10/26/20 at 19:55:31
 
I had to go with Marcus because RK is my favorite car in multiple TMs. (Including TM:HO and TMX) It's more about the car styling and special than it is about the Character himself. I always liked how RK has a simple special but if you want to use it effectively you have tp ;earn the deeper ,mechanics behind it. (Return boomerang, full charge missiles, Holding missiles etc)

A close second is grimm. Grim has always been a fun and challenging cars. I know most will not agree with me but I actually liked TMX Grim alot., but I think it has more to do with how I had a close relationship with my father and it kinda reflects that. So I can somewhat relate to him.
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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #5 - 10/27/20 at 07:32:53
 
†Adonael wrote on 10/26/20 at 19:55:31:
I had to go with Marcus because RK is my favorite car in multiple TMs. (Including TM:HO and TMX) It's more about the car styling and special than it is about the Character himself. I always liked how RK has a simple special but if you want to use it effectively you have tp ;earn the deeper ,mechanics behind it. (Return boomerang, full charge missiles, Holding missiles etc)

A close second is grimm. Grim has always been a fun and challenging cars. I know most will not agree with me but I actually liked TMX Grim alot., but I think it has more to do with how I had a close relationship with my father and it kinda reflects that. So I can somewhat relate to him.


I was on the fence whether to include TMX Marcus Kane as a legit version Marcus Kane. I did like how during the Hammerhead-Slayer boss fight you can only drive as Roadkill, which is a cool reference to Marcus as Roadkill, but within the story itself it just seems like there was no real reason to name the character Marcus Kane although the original TM2 Marcus was a family man (shown in his ending), but once Marcus and later Charlie put on the clown mask they transformed into a demon/Sweet Tooth so it's more spirit possession than it is dissociative identity disorder. And while Roadkill is in the vehicle roster of the game Marcus Kane wasn't the original driver of Roadkill in the series as you of course already know, even though 99 percent of fans think of Marcus first when it comes to that vehicle, especially because Captain Spears is a one-shot character.

But you are absolutely right that it is the vehicle & special that make a character a true favorite, not so much the other way around, although the relationship between driver and vehicle is important too and probably why Sweet Tooth is the most popular, because the combination of evil clown & ice cream truck work all too well. It's a perfect marriage, and likewise Mr. Grimm was too although clearly the concept was Ghost Rider-ish.

The poll question is complicated though, because the most favorite recurring vehicles may have appeared 6x like Shadow, yet Shadow has not had a driver that appeared at least 4x. Hammerhead, Specter, and Warthog are also staple vehicles in the series who have had a share of different drivers. Mr. Slam almost qualified for the poll but 989 Studios did not use Simon Whittlebone in TM3 so I can't be certain Super Slamm in TM4 is driven by him, and then TM Small Brawl Slam being a construction worker kid rather than an architect kid made him unintentionally seem more like Auger/Buster Cobb.
Then you also have cases where a recurring driver, or driver with a recurring driver name is driving a different vehicle... ex. Charlie Kane as Dark Tooth, Marcus Kane as Minion, Krista Sparks as Juggernaut, Needles/Marcus as Dark Tooth, Grimm as a pirate ship car, Agent Stone as Outlaw...
It's kind of funny to realize Charlie Kane is in more games than Yellow Jacket, and Preacher is in more games than Brimstone, but that's the twisted nature of TM lore.
So a simple question like "favorite recurring TM driver that appeared about 4 times?" suddenly becomes very complicated because of all that.
 
And TMX 2012 Grimm... is not a bad TM character like say, Trash Man. Not at all.
Underdeveloped yes, because he lacked a middle cutscene that showed his transformation from traumatized child to violent criminal.
What people are divided on is - Is he a good Mr. Grimm?
TM Black's Mr. Grimm was controversial at first too if I recall, at least to a vocal minority. He's not the grim reaper but TM Black Grimm is analogous to the original since he eats people like the original character ate souls & he wears a skull helmet like how the original has a skull under his helmet.
I'm not sure I see a comparison with Daniel Grimm and the original. With TMX they had an opportunity to make a brand new character, and they forced in the name Grimm and assigned him a motorcycle for nostalgia purposes. It's not just that he doesn't have the Grimm look and looks more like Papa Shango (nothing wrong with that), but he also doesn't have much of a Grimm -ish personality or motivation. It's a totally different character to me, but I appreciate the father-son aspect of the story too, and the emotion-over-logic type of wish was heartfelt and not as dumb as what Marcus-Tooth and Dollface-Sparks wished for.
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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #6 - 10/29/20 at 19:37:33
 
MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 10/27/20 at 07:32:53:
I'm not sure I see a comparison with Daniel Grimm and the original. With TMX they had an opportunity to make a brand new character, and they forced in the name Grimm and assigned him a motorcycle for nostalgia purposes. It's not just that he doesn't have the Grimm look and looks more like Papa Shango (nothing wrong with that), but he also doesn't have much of a Grimm -ish personality or motivation. It's a totally different character to me, but I appreciate the father-son aspect of the story too, and the emotion-over-logic type of wish was heartfelt and not as dumb as what Marcus-Tooth and Dollface-Sparks wished for.


I will agree he was a bit under developed and the new direction wasn't grimm like, but if they would of had a middle cutscene that could of shown how he became a criminal and maybe added some flavor like an obsession with death, it would of made him pretty interesting.

But a big issue with all the TMX characters is the fact they were not fleshed out as well as they could have been, but thats another discussion.
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Re: Favorite Recurring TM Driver? (minimum of 4 games)
Reply #7 - 10/30/20 at 01:50:44
 
†Adonael wrote on 10/29/20 at 19:37:33:
if they would of had a middle cutscene that could of shown how he became a criminal and maybe added some flavor like an obsession with death, it would of made him pretty interesting.


Absolutely. On top of that they could have further explained that the skull face paint and naming his gang the Skulls was an homage and tribute to his father.
They could have shown more of his dad and shown the cut-scene viewer something impressive he did as a stuntman that influenced his son to become a death defying individual, and that his son had naturally inherited his father's bravery and skill, but perhaps Daniel was raised by criminals who took him in after his father died so Daniel was set on a bad path that led him to becoming a crime boss who ends up in Calypso's contest, rather than a stuntman or something that his father would have been proud of. However in his ending by ending up in the past killed by his younger self he might have actually set his younger self on a better path... or not. Who knows.
I kind of wonder how a sequel to TMX would have handled continuing the story, with all the issues the 2012 story had. Really, the only TM sequel that had an easy time continuing from where its predecessor left off was TM2 World Tour.
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