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Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game. (Read 1915 times)
-Kilrahi-
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #15 - 05/17/20 at 04:41:15
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/17/20 at 02:03:23:
I just don't understand why people list TMX that low when its the 3rd best in the franchise in terms of gameplay after TM2 and Black.
Also Small Brawl above TM3? Really? Small Brawl sucks and TM3 is miles better.

My list:

1. TM2
2. TMB
3. TMX
4. TM3
5. Head On
6. TM4
7. TM1
8. TMSB


Because we DON'T think it is the third best in terms of gameplay.

I guess in truth gameplay is a bit of an open ended term. Do you mean visuals? Tone? Game mechanics? Story?

When I break TMX down, it looks like this:

Visuals: A- (the damn blood splatters are more distracting than wonderful, but other than that it's easily the prettiest game).

Levels: B- (They are designed largely around claustrophobic gameplay, with little room for actual dancing with your opponent, and destructibles regularly get in the way of actual fights. It also has the worst level in TM history *Cough* Diablo).

Stories: B- (I felt it was high school fiction trying to be badass. Plus there were only three stories, and they were poorly written IMO).

Gameplay D- (For me, gameplay refers to the actual offenseive and defensive options a player has in this game and is the single most important factor for me. In my opinion, TMX is worse than every previous TM before it - espeially Small Brawl, and so it is ranked incredibly low here).

Poor Design: F (You can't play with your clan members in clan wars, no force launch for rooms, no 1 v 1 online support, claims of 16 player rooms but always topping out at 14, poor menus, bad default options, no demanded improvements such as no health options, bad unlocks for Warthog, horrible AI, etc., etc.).

Glitches/Coding: F (This one is the second most important. PS3s crashing, online inoperable for months and still problematic to the end, matchmaking broken forever, glitchy skin options, game crashes, on and on) . . .


So I mean we all have our vision of what makes a great TM. To me, this one was a dumpster fire.

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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #16 - 05/17/20 at 04:44:22
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/17/20 at 02:03:23:
I just don't understand why people list TMX that low when its the 3rd best in the franchise in terms of gameplay after TM2 and Black.
Also Small Brawl above TM3? Really? Small Brawl sucks and TM3 is miles better.

My list:

1. TM2
2. TMB
3. TMX
4. TM3
5. Head On
6. TM4
7. TM1
8. TMSB


TMX has shit gameplay...
But hey, if you think that and TM3 are deep and TMSB & TM1 aren't, that tells me your taste is shallow.
TM1 & TMSB's gameplay offered a level playing field in the game. They may in fact be the most balanced TM games in terms of gameplay. TMSB's gameplay is really not that different from TMB's either, it's just much slower in comparison, so I don't get why you would shit on the game's gameplay while also praising its big brother. I could understand someone disliking TMSB for the graphics or the RC car concept, but the gameplay? What the fuck?
And TM1's gameplay is solid. All the accolades that game received was almost all due to the gameplay. That game had the best version of Hammerhead, bar none, and the lack of AA forced players to use tire spikes, oil spills, mines, and non-homing freeze missiles not only in a creative way, but in a smart way, and likewise mastering maneuvering (t-stops, t-slides) was of utmost importance in the game.

My problem with Twisted Metal 2012, aka TMX, is that the base gameplay is shallow as hell. There is no dodging of strong homings, nothing you can do about the multiple auto lock-on attacks except shield, the Advanced Attacks might has well have been renamed Simple Attacks since it is limited to one button, and you can't drive with the D-Pad as a result, the machine gun and fire weapon controls were switched around for no reason, the turbo dash is limited to ps3 sixaxis controllers with motion sensing, the ramming damage distribution is ridiculous, there is an overabundance of health and turbo pickups creating too much of a cat-and-mouse dynamic, the Health Trucks are obnoxious in that they can't be destroyed but they can destroy you (with just a single ram if you are a low armored car), the large maps accommodated flyers more than grounded vehicles despite the game only having 2 flyers, and the game was plagued with glitches like the AI sniper headshots against the player that came without any laser warning.
But before someone attacks me, I will give credit to the TMX community for making the most of the game's team modes, and I will say that the strategic thinking and teamwork involved in team modes can bring the best out of a flawed game.

And the idea that TM3 is miles above any game in terms of gameplay, other than shit like Superman 64 and Atari's E.T. game, is a laugh. Even 989 Studios knew TM3 had shit gameplay, evident by how different TM4 is despite running on the same TruPhysics engine. Russian modders have been trying to make a better version of TM3 for years now and even they, with their great technical know-how, can't make sense of that garbage, dude.
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Shalashaska
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #17 - 05/17/20 at 12:58:43
 
I'm sorry but that's just false.

TMX is the 3rd best one after 2 and Black. Your controls argument is invalid. TMX has very responsive controls and it takes a few minutes to become familiar with them. The turbo dash is ingenious.
The undodgebale homing projectiles is valid, but it's what it is and it doesn't stop the game of being better than all TM games with the exeption of TM2 and Black.

Please explain how Small Brawl is better than 3. I fail to see any pros of SB over 3.
Small Brawl turbo is non-existent since you are barely faster than without it. In larger levels such as the golf stage it takes forever to reach the end.
Mortar and rain weapons are much better than roman candle. The specials of TM3 are better than those in SB.
Oh and you can play 4+ people in TM3(in fact 4vs4, yes laggy but...).
And before you mention the physics of TM3, SB has floaty physics and there is practically no turbo.

Peace!
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #18 - 05/17/20 at 18:46:33
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/17/20 at 12:58:43:
I'm sorry but that's just false.

TMX is the 3rd best one after 2 and Black. Your controls argument is invalid. TMX has very responsive controls and it takes a few minutes to become familiar with them. The turbo dash is ingenious.
The undodgebale homing projectiles is valid, but it's what it is and it doesn't stop the game of being better than all TM games with the exeption of TM2 and Black.

Please explain how Small Brawl is better than 3. I fail to see any pros of SB over 3.
Small Brawl turbo is non-existent since you are barely faster than without it. In larger levels such as the golf stage it takes forever to reach the end.
Mortar and rain weapons are much better than roman candle. The specials of TM3 are better than those in SB.
Oh and you can play 4+ people in TM3(in fact 4vs4, yes laggy but...).
And before you mention the physics of TM3, SB has floaty physics and there is practically no turbo.

Peace!


You repeated yourself a lot, and for most of it said, "it's better because I said so."

Look, you're the one who asked. I happen to agree with you on TMSB's turbo ...but that's it.

TMX is still trash for the reasons I said above. As for why TM3 is trash, rather than have me type it out, just read the reviews from the era. The whole planet said why it's trash when the game came out.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #19 - 05/17/20 at 22:48:07
 
I'm aware of everything why TM3 is considered bad. It's because compared to TM2 it sucks. Even back in 1998 I was disappionted after coming from TM2. This is not the point here.
We compare Small Brawl to TM3. With the exception of level design, TM3 is better in everything.
It's not only the turbo, it's lack of new weapons(sure roman candle, serioulsy?), the overall slow movement of the cars and the slow movement of the weapons as a whole. On top of it Small Brawl does not have multiplayer for more than 2 people.
See it's not only the turbo.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #20 - 05/17/20 at 23:30:19
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/17/20 at 22:48:07:
I'm aware of everything why TM3 is considered bad. It's because compared to TM2 it sucks. Even back in 1998 I was disappionted after coming from TM2. This is not the point here.
We compare Small Brawl to TM3. With the exception of level design, TM3 is better in everything.
It's not only the turbo, it's lack of new weapons(sure roman candle, serioulsy?), the overall slow movement of the cars and the slow movement of the weapons as a whole. On top of it Small Brawl does not have multiplayer for more than 2 people.
See it's not only the turbo.


I said the turbo was the only thing I agreed with, and it still is.

The 4 player multiplayer in TM3 was in my opinion, even if I didn't hate the gameplay ... COMPLETELY unplayable. It was headache inducing slowdown. If you liked it though, you're right, that's a plus.

I actually felt the Roman candle was brilliant and one of the truly innovative weapons of the series. In a genre that suffers from missile overload, they need more stuff like this. TM3 has nothing on it.

In terms of AA, TMSB has all the moves INCLUDING shields.

In terms of cars, TM3 cars flip over way too damn much, and the balance between cars in TMSB is better. Also, funny enough, more creative which I know you liked.

So i guess we like what we like. I do agree TM3 has better gameplay than TMX, but it's still, IMO, hot trash.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #21 - 05/17/20 at 23:38:39
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/17/20 at 12:58:43:
I'm sorry but that's just false.

TMX is the 3rd best one after 2 and Black. Your controls argument is invalid. TMX has very responsive controls and it takes a few minutes to become familiar with them. The turbo dash is ingenious.
The undodgebale homing projectiles is valid, but it's what it is and it doesn't stop the game of being better than all TM games with the exeption of TM2 and Black.

Please explain how Small Brawl is better than 3. I fail to see any pros of SB over 3.
Small Brawl turbo is non-existent since you are barely faster than without it. In larger levels such as the golf stage it takes forever to reach the end.
Mortar and rain weapons are much better than roman candle. The specials of TM3 are better than those in SB.
Oh and you can play 4+ people in TM3(in fact 4vs4, yes laggy but...).
And before you mention the physics of TM3, SB has floaty physics and there is practically no turbo.

Peace!


Discussing controls is invalid when talking about Gameplay? Now I know you're an idiot.

Turbo is not non-existent in Small Brawl if you manage it well. It's more similar to the original Twisted Metal which also didn't give an excess of turbo and drained quickly. I'd usually use it with rams with success though. In my opinion Twisted Metal 2 and TMX gave the player too much turbo, and allowed players to play like total wimps. But it comes down to preference. Turbo in of itself shouldn't be a deal-breaker with TM anyway.

as for Mortar and Rain - they are just Napalm spin-offs, and aren't that innovative. Roman Candles however were pretty unique in that they were like a mix of napalm and ricochets, in that they shot in an arch and bounced off walls.

And yes I know TMIII and TM4 have 4 player multiplayer, I have played 4 player matches in those games before, and it was a nightmare on the eyes and like you admit, laggy. Let me also educate and tell you those aren't the first TM games with 4 player multiplayer. Twisted Metal 1 PC offered 4 player multiplayer, and Twisted Metal 2 PC had up to 8 player multiplayer, so 989 Studios did not exactly come up with a new multiplayer concept with all that.

And TMSB hardly has floaty physics. Not from my experience.

As for TMIII;
TMIII dumbed down ramming. Had neither shield or mines. The mounted machine guns are total garbage, and sound like popcorn farts. The ricochet bomb was garbage. The AI are health addicts. Maneuvering was awkward. The camera was garbage in every POV, especially 1st person view (which was superior in TM1). The entire game feels like a bad parody of TM2 with stereotypical characters and bland maps. The maps in Small Brawl and TM1 are far superior to anything in TM3. And if takes you a long time to get around the MiniGolf Mayhem map there's something wrong with you, not the game... and why are you bugging about a big map in TMSB when TMX had the biggest maps in the entire fucking series? C'mon...
No offense dude, but you have a clear bias. You didn't even explain why you think TMX is the 3rd best TM title even though you admit the lack of dodging is a problem... yet you think I have to make an essay of why TMSB is great and better than TM3 - so you can just dismiss it and say my argument is invalid? LOL Okay then.
And Turbo Dash is ingenious? How so? Because you said so? It was dumb as hell. Turbo Dash cheapened Darkside's slam special, since with Turbo Dash pretty much any vehicle except Talon could do the same. And what good was turbo dash to small vehicles like Reaper, Crimson Fury, and Kamikaze? Turbo Dash just gave big dogs an unfair advantage.
And listen - I did familiarize myself with the TMX controls quickly, and played for years, but that doesn't mean I think the controls were good. I played the so called classic controls, and dual stick controls, and I found them both flawed.
All TMX had going for it was the graphics, but the confused art style of the game bogged that down too.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #22 - 05/18/20 at 00:18:10
 
There are only three Twisted Metals with ramming and those are TM1, TM2 and TMX. I don't know why you bring it when it's the same in SB.
Small Brawl turbo barely gives you a boost, but the biggest problem is the whole speed of the game. Everyone is a slow moving snail, even Crimson Fury. Projectiles are also slow moving.
Just test a slow car vs Crimson. Choose a starting point and press the turbo button of both cars. They will go with basically the same speed and will be at the same line. That's what I call bad.
Speed, mortar and rain > roman candle. I'll choose three weapons over one.
4 player split screen with zero bots is acceptable. It becomes more laggy when you add bots. 4 playes with a link cable(2vs2) is smooth.
I find the specials of TM3 to be better. In fact only two(or three) of them are missiles since the series suffer from too many missiles as a whole.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #23 - 05/18/20 at 04:16:09
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/18/20 at 00:18:10:
There are only three Twisted Metals with ramming and those are TM1, TM2 and TMX. I don't know why you bring it when it's the same in SB.
Small Brawl turbo barely gives you a boost, but the biggest problem is the whole speed of the game. Everyone is a slow moving snail, even Crimson Fury. Projectiles are also slow moving.
Just test a slow car vs Crimson. Choose a starting point and press the turbo button of both cars. They will go with basically the same speed and will be at the same line. That's what I call bad.
Speed, mortar and rain > roman candle. I'll choose three weapons over one.
4 player split screen with zero bots is acceptable. It becomes more laggy when you add bots. 4 playes with a link cable(2vs2) is smooth.
I find the specials of TM3 to be better. In fact only two(or three) of them are missiles since the series suffer from too many missiles as a whole.


Black has ramming. I think TMSB does too. Are you sure you know your games?

You'll choose three derivative weapons over one unique? I'm a quality over quantity guy myself, but you do you.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #24 - 05/18/20 at 04:53:22
 
You know what I meant by ramming. Real ramming like TM1, TM2 and TMX which every vehicle with decent armor can turbo ram for big damage. Black does not have it. Special weapons is not what I meant, obviously.
The ramming was lost after TM2 and it finally returned in TMX.

Roman candle is nothing special. Yes three weapons and fast gameplay over one weapon and snail-like speed.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #25 - 05/18/20 at 07:53:51
 
Shalashaska wrote on 05/18/20 at 04:53:22:
You know what I meant by ramming. Real ramming like TM1, TM2 and TMX which every vehicle with decent armor can turbo ram for big damage. Black does not have it. Special weapons is not what I meant, obviously.
The ramming was lost after TM2 and it finally returned in TMX.

Roman candle is nothing special. Yes three weapons and fast gameplay over one weapon and snail-like speed.


I mean, I guess if you thought that was a plus.

I didn't think that was a good thing. It isn't at TM2's level either, though it FEELS more than Black it's really not that much more if you break down the actual numbers because vehicles also have a lot more health than they did in earlier games across the board. Granted Darkside on Reaper is devastating, Darkside on Junkyard Dog isn't nearly as impressive.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #26 - 05/18/20 at 15:07:46
 
-Kilrahi- wrote on 05/18/20 at 07:53:51:
I mean, I guess if you thought that was a plus.

I didn't think that was a good thing. It isn't at TM2's level either, though it FEELS more than Black it's really not that much more if you break down the actual numbers because vehicles also have a lot more health than they did in earlier games across the board. Granted Darkside on Reaper is devastating, Darkside on Junkyard Dog isn't nearly as impressive.


It's the same in TM2. Sweeth Tooth vs Mr Slam is not as impressive as Sweet Tooth vs Grasshopper for instance. The armor is both attack and deffence. It's the reason I chose TM2 over Black and one of the reasons TMX is 3rd best.
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #27 - 05/18/20 at 17:04:50
 
More TM3 pros over SB:

- The rico sucks in TMSB. It is SLOW as hell, lasts for 6 seconds and then disappears which basically eliminates its purpose. In TM3 the ricos are FAST and  stay FOREVER till someone is hit. Big plus for Twisted 3. The remote bomb in SB is replaced with a timed one. It explodes after several seconds.

- In TM3 you can play mirror matches. In fact for pure fun you can play against up to 7 Minions or 7 Club Kids.

- In SB you can't chose bots in head to head and you can't select them in 2 player free for all. You can add bots wherever you want in TM3.

- In SB you can't use combos with the Special weapons + normal ones since the game locks you in till the special is over. So stuff like grabbing someone with Mr Slam and then selecting and detonating yourself with a remote bomb(timed bomb in SB) in no longer possible. Only Outlaw is not locked in(maybe there is another one, but most are). Energy weapons(aka mines) are not locked in for some(Hammerhead) for instance., but locked for others.
You can do everything in TM3.

- TM3 has awesome cheats for pure fun:
   - Massive force - a pushback is added to all weapons making it like pinball  effect.
   - All pick-ups being remote bombs or napalms or homing missiles, etc. In the case of napalm it's quite fun because when you run out of turbo you can't recharge it and you are goint to burn a lot.
    - Homing rains
    - Stronger napalms(the flight is higher)
    - Smart seekers
    - Giant ricos
Just to name a few.

  - If there is a PSX emulator which supports link cable, then this is another plus for TM3 because you can play smooth 4vs4.
   
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« Last Edit: 05/18/20 at 19:00:49 by Shalashaska »  
 
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Re: Twisted Metal Head On is the most boring TM game.
Reply #28 - 05/19/20 at 09:16:21
 
I mean, okay man. Enjoy TM3. If I ever win a free copy I'll send it your way because I sure as hell don't want it.
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