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I bet none of you saw this... (Read 515 times)
Coleiosis
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I bet none of you saw this...
09/20/18 at 22:34:51
 
I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say you did not see what Chad Liddell had on his Tumblr page... more Harbor City animation shots that even I did not notice until NOW!

http://chadliddell.tumblr.com/page/6
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #1 - 09/21/18 at 17:51:07
 
We actually have. That's how thorough we've been. Reposts are welcome though.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #2 - 09/23/18 at 00:20:45
 
grab all the images and back up everything you see on there just incase he AOLs it
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Coleiosis
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #3 - 09/23/18 at 02:42:01
 
I did just that.  I saved all the Harbor City pics wherever I found them and put them in a folder on my computer.  It's mainly the unreleased content of a game that I could stare dreamily at.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #4 - 09/23/18 at 05:50:49
 
wow that actually looks sick!
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #5 - 10/07/18 at 15:44:18
 
Harbor City looked beautiful.

What I find interesting is that in everything that has been released the TM:HO cars are present for characters that weren't previously in the game. It makes sense that they were unused assets from TM:HC brought over to TM:HO but they really look out of place in my opinion. Even ignoring the prototype footage that was uncovered, Twister looks really out of place in the screenshot on the linked Tumblr. The new additions look too colorful and their condition is too good. They look like they would fit in better in a TM2 remake (they referring to the models for Crimson Fury, Mr. Slam and Twister). Hammerhead being the same model from TM:HO and being green in the prototype for TM:HC is interesting and worth noting as well.

With that being said, I wonder what the designers were aiming for artistically with the contrast or if it was a progression of model development that wasn't completed.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #6 - 10/07/18 at 17:15:01
 
Thanks for sharing Coleiosis. I haven't seen these before. I'm not quite as an old of a member as some of the others who have seen them.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #7 - 10/07/18 at 21:54:26
 
Ripzsaur wrote on 10/07/18 at 15:44:18:
Harbor City looked beautiful.

What I find interesting is that in everything that has been released the TM:HO cars are present for characters that weren't previously in the game. It makes sense that they were unused assets from TM:HC brought over to TM:HO but they really look out of place in my opinion. Even ignoring the prototype footage that was uncovered, Twister looks really out of place in the screenshot on the linked Tumblr. The new additions look too colorful and their condition is too good. They look like they would fit in better in a TM2 remake (they referring to the models for Crimson Fury, Mr. Slam and Twister). Hammerhead being the same model from TM:HO and being green in the prototype for TM:HC is interesting and worth noting as well.

With that being said, I wonder what the designers were aiming for artistically with the contrast or if it was a progression of model development that wasn't completed.


The clue is in the Tower Tooth ending. The original vision was a type of "Ultimate Tournament" Twisted, the biggest ever, where all fan faves from the major universes competed. The story idea backing it was a type of dimensional rift where the colorful and black universes mixed and competed for supremacy. While it's almost certain that the character models, particularly the colorful ones, would have had more work done, they were also supposed to look slightly out of place in Harbor City, and Black's as well. Harbor City was more colorful than Black, but less colorful than TM2.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #8 - 10/08/18 at 03:36:52
 
Malefactor wrote on 10/07/18 at 21:54:26:
The clue is in the Tower Tooth ending.


Dark Tooth ending*
Although it might as well be called the Tower Tooth ending considering the Dark Tooth vehicle isn't even in it.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #9 - 10/08/18 at 03:44:53
 
Is there a source for the original concept or is that theory? Interesting, I had never heard of that. I don't know how I feel about it though. The environments still seemed a little too gritty for colorful characters like Grasshopper and Twister.

I wonder if the "cross-over" would have been executed well. To me, the actual design stance of the vehicles just stands out far too much. Maybe if there was a "TM2" version of each vehicle to go along-side the "TMB" version it would be neat. Essentially two full sets. Then it would fully explain the multi-universe concept. Granted there was always kind of a plot hole with the Kane family anyway. Otherwise, it just makes the minority of colorful vehicles stand out (with that assumption based on the prototype despite being disregarded in my last comment.)
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #10 - 10/08/18 at 04:20:10
 
Manslaughter's Twisted Metal Lost Bio suggests a cross-over event

No one knows where Black comes from, but he seems incapable of dying, and he has only one goal: to kill Calypso. The latest rumor is that Black actually comes from a parallel universe where a different, more colorful Calypso wants to use Black to murder his darker twin

And I could have seen that cross-over event being cool.
You have to remember that TM2 is a more colorful game than TM1 was. TM1 was a bit gritty actually, with the exception of the Cyburbia map. It was the World Tour feature of TM2 that gave TM a more colorful personality, but since TM Harbor City would have had taken place in one city like TM1, then I don't think it would have been weird to mix classic vehicles in there.
And a little re-designing goes a long way. Just look at Pit Viper and Grasshopper... same vehicle type but since GH is a bright green she appears cartoonier than PV does.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #11 - 10/08/18 at 04:45:22
 
Ripzsaur wrote on 10/08/18 at 03:44:53:
Is there a source for the original concept or is that theory? Interesting, I had never heard of that. I don't know how I feel about it though.


Well, yeah. As said in the original reply, the Dark Tooth ending clearly hints at the next direction for the series. Plus, TMB's Minion ending begins to setup the concept of multiple universes.


As Mosh points out, the other clear indicator, and a few others if I recall, come from the character bios in Twisted Metal Lost.


There are two other sources though you have to keep in mind:


1. A number of us have actually spoken to developers of the game who also told us a bit about the project.


2. The prototype version of TM: Harbor City found by Archminion, and made running by Darkforce, also substantiates this view.  It's a very early build, but there is a huge roster of cars and it includes clear TM2 versions of cars as well as Twisted Metal: Black.



Finally, a third obvious factor is the timing of how it was done. TMHO was a clear intention to fullfill the promise of TMB's ending that we would all get to return to the colorful world, but in terms of its creation, it was started AFTER TM: Harbor City.


Incognito was a good year into Harbor City when Sony asked them to change gears and create a launch title for the PSP. The majority of the Harbor City team switched gears to work on TMHO for about a year, and they intentionally setup the events for TM: Harbor City within that game.


Once TMHO was completed, they worked on TM: Harbor City for a few more months before Scott Campbell scrapped the project and diverted all of their teams to Warhawk and Heartland (David Jaffe's project which was later cancelled and shifted to Calling all Cars).


Major tragedy - it's largely because of Jaffe's desire to create an epic with Incognito that we both got TM: Harbor City shit canned AND Incognito shit canned.


So that's two Twisteds he pounded the nails in the coffin for.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #12 - 10/08/18 at 05:33:31
 
MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 10/08/18 at 04:20:10:
Manslaughter's Twisted Metal Lost Bio suggests a cross-over event

No one knows where Black comes from, but he seems incapable of dying, and he has only one goal: to kill Calypso. The latest rumor is that Black actually comes from a parallel universe where a different, more colorful Calypso wants to use Black to murder his darker twin

And I could have seen that cross-over event being cool.
You have to remember that TM2 is a more colorful game than TM1 was. TM1 was a bit gritty actually, with the exception of the Cyburbia map. It was the World Tour feature of TM2 that gave TM a more colorful personality, but since TM Harbor City would have had taken place in one city like TM1, then I don't think it would have been weird to mix classic vehicles in there.
And a little re-designing goes a long way. Just look at Pit Viper and Grasshopper... same vehicle type but since GH is a bright green she appears cartoonier than PV does.


I had forgotten about the TM: Lost character bios. Interesting tidbit and I had never put the two together. I like the idea a lot better with both versions of Calypso being in the story.

I initially remembered Darkforce gameplay footage and seeing the green Hammerhead/TMHO Slam/Grasshopper/Crimson and noting that all of the TM:B characters were still there in their original forms. With that being said, if the roster was doubled with both Calypso characters then it would have created an extremely fleshed out world. The analogy from TM1 really helps put things in perspective however. Thumper, Crimson Fury and Hammerhead were very colorful and looked nice in the gritty environment.

My initial issues came from the fact that from what I have saw. I had not previously seen any information detailing a full roster of both types. I guess that is what made the TM:HO models stand out so much in the Darkforce TMHC Prototype video.



-Kilrahi- wrote on 10/08/18 at 04:45:22:
Well, yeah. As said in the original reply, the Dark Tooth ending clearly hints at the next direction for the series. Plus, TMB's Minion ending begins to setup the concept of multiple universes.


As Mosh points out, the other clear indicator, and a few others if I recall, come from the character bios in Twisted Metal Lost.


There are two other sources though you have to keep in mind:


1. A number of us have actually spoken to developers of the game who also told us a bit about the project.


2. The prototype version of TM: Harbor City found by Archminion, and made running by Darkforce, also substantiates this view.  It's a very early build, but there is a huge roster of cars and it includes clear TM2 versions of cars as well as Twisted Metal: Black.



Finally, a third obvious factor is the timing of how it was done. TMHO was a clear intention to fullfill the promise of TMB's ending that we would all get to return to the colorful world, but in terms of its creation, it was started AFTER TM: Harbor City.


Incognito was a good year into Harbor City when Sony asked them to change gears and create a launch title for the PSP. The majority of the Harbor City team switched gears to work on TMHO for about a year, and they intentionally setup the events for TM: Harbor City within that game.


Once TMHO was completed, they worked on TM: Harbor City for a few more months before Scott Campbell scrapped the project and diverted all of their teams to Warhawk and Heartland (David Jaffe's project which was later cancelled and shifted to Calling all Cars).


Major tragedy - it's largely because of Jaffe's desire to create an epic with Incognito that we both got TM: Harbor City shit canned AND Incognito shit canned.


So that's two Twisteds he pounded the nails in the coffin for.


I believe your points for the case (and wasn't trying to say it wasn't) I just hadn't heard that before and wanted to hear more about it!

Initially, when I saw Dark Tooth's ending in the past I had viewed it as a continuity of Marcus' mental breakdown followed up from TM2. Didn't really view it in a different light until reading this thread.

I was always under the impression that Twisted Metal 2 took place in Sweet Tooth's head, which I thought was the split personality of Marcus, so essentially taking place in Marcus' deranged head from TM2.

Clearly I'm wrong, but what is the summary of the true canon? I know Outlaw won TM1 and I thought Twister won TM2, but when did TMB move from being inside of Sweet Tooth's head to being a secondary universe? I'm just confused.
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Re: I bet none of you saw this...
Reply #13 - 10/20/18 at 04:50:15
 
Seeing anything to do with TMBO2 still makes me cry. WHYYYYY? Jesus should have saved those children for the missionary position.
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