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New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal" (Read 3978 times)
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New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
02/07/18 at 02:21:56
 
Obligatory topic for the video Jaffe recently uploaded concerning TM.

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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #1 - 02/07/18 at 03:10:53
 
Nothing new here
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #2 - 02/07/18 at 10:11:54
 
It’s always interesting seeing Jaffe’s take on the series. I actually think he’s right when it comes to what it would take for the series to come back. The two options are either a lower budget option similar to Rocket League, or to reinvent the series so that it still has car combat as an option, but it adds so much more. A grand theft auto realization, if they’d done it prior to Grand Theft Auto III, would have probably kept the series going indefinitely. It’s interesting to wonder what might have been, but no one was brave enough to pony that much money up back in the day. It’s clear from the recent documents shared on here that Incog had considered such a move as early as 1999.



However, I have to laugh when he talks about the fractured fan base. He HAS to hold to that reality, because if he doesn’t, then he has to fess up to the idea that his most recent Twisted, despite all his hard work, was pretty “meh” compared to the previous titles. The truth is what it is though. The hardcore hated it for two very simple reasons:



1.   It was broken as *?!@#! (online was completely unplayable the first month, nearly unplayable for three months after, and consistently crashy with features that never worked even to this date – and add to that that fat PS3’s sometimes couldn’t play it – this is just HORRIBLE and remains to this day one of the most buggy unplayable messes I’ve ever bought).

2.   It was significantly dumbed down.



Both of those reasons are legitimate reasons for rejecting a game. What’s interesting, is if he had managed to nail the first one many of the hardcore still would have messed with it for a while and had some fun. TMHO was very dumbed down next to Black, but despite that I still fooled around with it for a good eight months until its own bugs began to be exploited to such a degree that it was unplayable. Admittedly TMHO is a superior game to TMX, but still, it’s important to keep in mind that if your game is a buggy mess it significantly impacts how much your consumer will put up with it.



The second option is just a stupid one to ignore. There are no casual fans out there who despise depth so long as they can still play casual, and making it so that defensive options exist to the same degree as offensive doesn’t turn anybody off. He talks about how much fun people tell him they had playing TMX multiplayer which is no surprise – the core of TM multiplayer, even when dumbed down, is vastly superior, different, and unique to most of the stuff out there right now. If you add the depth of the previous games it keeps the hardcore players coming back, and the casuals still have fun. Win/win. There’s not a player on the planet who would have turned off TMX if they found out that you can dodge missiles. “OMG – depth – this game is crap!”



The worldwide argument is a serious one. Twisted Metal has always struggled worldwide, but at the same time, it has never had a fair shake worldwide. The damage both Sony and ESP have done to the franchise has never done it any favors. With TMB, they gutted the single player game. In an era where that was still the big draw in all video games that was just patently stupid. In the ESP era, they released a non-functioning multiplayer focused product to a country that already didn’t believe in the product – that’s like throwing sodium in a toilet bowl right there.



Here’s what Twisted needs, on any level, to be reborn:



1.   It needs to be a functioning non buggy mess that does exactly what it says it will do. If it says you can do 8 vs 8 multiplayer, you’d better be able to.

2.   It should have the depth of the previous games, and the features of the previous games that fans loved (ability to remove healths – easy peasy – and why not reinsert relics which was a cool idea and people loved them). In short, it has to pay respect to what came before it instead of completely ignoring its existing evolution.

3.   It needs to ditch the M rating – Twisted always sold best as a series that the family could sit around and blow each other away in. A mass murdering Sweet Tooth dropping f bombs relegates it to late night gaming away from kids, and prevents numerous 12 year olds from convincing their mom to buy it for them. First person shooters and survival horror gets away with it, but it doesn’t do other genres as many favors.



Do I think it will happen? No.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #3 - 02/07/18 at 16:23:13
 
While I'd love both a Crash Bandicoot style remaster of Twisted Metal 1 and 2, or a Twisted Metal PS3 remaster fix, I have given up on Sony or Jaffe delivering what Twisted Metal fans want.

We don't want a garbage micro transaction fueled free to play shit pile.
I don't want Rocket League with loot boxes and hyper competitive multiplayer.
I don't mind a healthy multiplayer keeping players engaged, but if it's at the expense of losing single player, and harming core gameplay, I'm out.

I've actually just been working on my own car combat title with a few folks because we want to make a title we want.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #4 - 02/07/18 at 20:56:48
 
I think that what TMX needed was something similar to what Netherrealm did with MK9, in regards to the story mode. A plot where you could go more in-depth with the characters, the relationships between each other, their struggles (if you're a good guy) inside the demented TM world, but keeping the twisted edge the series is known for. Maybe, exclusive for the story, create new stages beetwen each official tournament battleground where you move from one battle to another, with more scripted scenes and secrets and stuff.

But I think getting the series away from pure vehicular combat is a huge mistake, since it's so intrinsic to the TM world. The races is TMX weren't well received, on foot sections would totally piss off a lot of people, as would do driving missions like the ones in GTA (or even Roadkill). I just think stuff like that would be incredibly unpolished, that's because deep, balanced and well-made vehicular combat in itself requires too much effort alone, nevermind the stories.

It is a genre that could be more exploited, but you can see it's potential in fighting games, the later need little else besides the core fighting to be popular and acclaimed. But it has been damaged by the fact that only one series of games really understands it.

But whatever happens with the series, I already have TM1, 2, Black, HO, X and Rogue Trip, and that's fairly enough to feed my car combat needs.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #5 - 02/08/18 at 12:48:01
 
Making a TM game without Jaffe just doesn't seem right.  We've seen the results twice, before.  I am wondering if he still has the license for Rogue Trip.  He could continue on with that.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #6 - 02/09/18 at 02:36:23
 
Vlygar wrote on 02/08/18 at 12:48:01:
Making a TM game without Jaffe just doesn't seem right.  We've seen the results twice, before.  I am wondering if he still has the license for Rogue Trip.  He could continue on with that.


Ummmm, Jaffe never played any role in Rogue Trip whatsoever.

So if you liked that one, clearly you can have car combat without him.

He DID play a role in TMPS3.  That one was ass.

He wasn't at all involved in TMHO . . . and that one was average.

So hell, let's just not take a risk and let him retire from the genre like he wants to.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #7 - 02/10/18 at 21:35:32
 
Got a feeling Jaffe wants to come back to TM.

If so, he'll have to hire some talent this time.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #8 - 02/11/18 at 19:28:04
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/09/18 at 02:36:23:
Ummmm, Jaffe never played any role in Rogue Trip whatsoever.

So if you liked that one, clearly you can have car combat without him.

He DID play a role in TMPS3.  That one was ass.

He wasn't at all involved in TMHO . . . and that one was average.

So hell, let's just not take a risk and let him retire from the genre like he wants to.


I could have sworn Jaffe was involved with Rogue Trip.  I am pretty sure he was still with singletrac, at that time.  Supposing he wasn't with Singletrac at that time, then the same creative team could make another TM.  I dunno what you are talking about with TM 2012 and TM Head On.  Both are fantastic games. 
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #9 - 02/11/18 at 20:44:06
 
I believe Rouge trip was Scott's baby.

I kinda agree with Jaffe on this one.

As far as TMX's integrity as a game, it is a good game. It plays and works like it should. EXCEPT for the online. Which was a huge issue.

When Brand damage happens to a title companies tend to ditch them and replace them with a new IP.

Jet Moto 3 did brand damage to that series thus causing Sony to drop it.

Driv3r did the same to the driver series, despite that some how infograms still pumped out two more games (parallel lines and San Francisco were great.) But Ubi lost faith in the brand name because sales we'rent as high as they expected and it all goes back to the brand damage done by Driv3r (Which is why that team now does Watchdogs which was originally going to be a driver game, just not with all the hacking.)

Reason Twisted continued on, was despite  the games being vastly different they still sold like hot cakes. The real damage didn't happen until TMX and the Online features being completely broken.

All this ties up into a consumer looking at the name of a game and going "Oh this is (Game name.) Thats buggy bullshit."

And not picking up the game.


Now where I don't agree with Jaffe is the relevance of the series. I don't think they need to do some MAJOR "AAA" change to twisted metal to make it "mainstream and good."

Look at games like Tekken, (Which is mainly a big hit in Japan, but still does decent everywhere else,)
They found a good formula, stuck to it and only made slight improvements to fine tune the mechanics rather than trying to rewrite the book every new game.

I think if they would of stuck to that formula found in the old games and continued with that and improved it to perfection that it might of been a different story.

But on the creative side of things i could see how that could get monotonous as hell. Which I think is why they decided to take a huge leap with TMX.

Not because we were bored with it, but because they were.

Alright. Thats probably my longest post in TMA history. I gotta  get back to work.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #10 - 02/12/18 at 02:03:39
 
Vlygar wrote on 02/11/18 at 19:28:04:
I could have sworn Jaffe was involved with Rogue Trip.  I am pretty sure he was still with singletrac, at that time.  Supposing he wasn't with Singletrac at that time, then the same creative team could make another TM.  I dunno what you are talking about with TM 2012 and TM Head On.  Both are fantastic games. 


Jaffe was never with  Singletrac. Jaffe was with Sony, later Sony Santa Monica. He partnered with Singletrac to make TM and TM2. Later, Singletrac was bought out by GT Interactive which is when they made Rogue Trip, which is not a Sony product and Jaffe had nothing to do with it. Later, MOST of Singletrac left to form Incognito Entertainment, and made Twisted Metal Black. Shortly after that they were bought by Sony. Jaffe partnered with Incognito to make Black, but again, he was in a separate company. Later, Incognito fell apart and SOME of them and Jaffe left to form ESP and make TM 2012. That was the FIRST Twisted game Jaffe made where he was a part of the core developing company. He left shortly after release.

As for the rushed and dumbed down TMHO, and the buggy and dumber downed TMX being fantastic, you're adorable.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #11 - 02/12/18 at 15:22:44
 
Why, thank you.  I get by on my adorableness.

So, what's the deal with Jaffe jumping ship right after a new game release?  I've noticed he has done this after several releases.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #12 - 02/12/18 at 18:41:30
 
Jaffe doesn't like to continue making the same game over and over I believe. He tends to want to work on other projects for creativity sake I would guess.
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #13 - 02/14/18 at 09:06:57
 
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Re: New Video from Jaffe: "The State Of Twisted Metal"
Reply #14 - 02/14/18 at 10:33:41
 
Thumpy wrote on 02/14/18 at 09:06:57:


Damn . . . that really sucks.

I mean, I want him to stay away from Twisted Metal, and admittedly, I really hated Drawn to Death's tone, but I don't wish ill will on the guy or his future.
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