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Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation (Read 3889 times)
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #45 - 02/19/18 at 20:21:54
 
I would just remake Twisted 2 with the original game's levels included. Twisted Metal 1 doesn't really feel like a finished thought while certainly an amazing game for it's time, Twisted 2 improved upon everything the first game started.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #46 - 02/19/18 at 22:14:07
 
There are some things I like better in 1 than in 2. I really think the original gets unappreciated, and in part I think it's that people were so attracted to the "World Tour" feature that they didn't feel the first game offered as much creativity. but what i did like more;

-Hammerhead is wayyyy better in TM1. It's not even up for debate. TM2 Hammerhead fucking sucks and any defense for TM2 HH is based on that version having a better story/ending.

-TM1 had Darkside whereas TM2 only has DS in an options menu which is a total tease and it annoys me every time I play TM2.

-(up for debate) Pit Viper is better than Grasshopper. I didn't like playing as Grasshopper. That special felt like hopping towards suicide.

-TM1's simpler combat gave AI/players less opportunities to play cheap because you couldn't just freeze enemies easily (unless you picked up a freeze missile on the map), and you couldn't shield. Because of this, multiplayer duel matches played out differently than they did in TM2 - and there were no big maps available in TM1's multiplayer so I felt that duels were more fair in the 1st game. Every game after has more unbalanced multiplayer modes because of advanced combos and larger maps. TM1 was the only one where you didn't need to create new rules to balance out matches.

Also, TM2 NEEDS those extra TM1 maps (original suburbs and rooftops). Those were among the most popular maps when people were playing TM2 PC and still among the 2 best maps in the entire series.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #47 - 02/19/18 at 23:21:09
 
I'll agree with a few of your points, freeze missiles definitely changed the experience in TM2, and the Cyburbia battleground is definitely one of the better maps. But, I think overall Twisted 2 had far more replay value and variety with it's vehicle choice and levels. Simply adding the ability to rotate your vehicle changed a lot of the gameplay. To me the original game is a great concept that really needed more fleshing out, which the sequel delivered on.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #48 - 02/20/18 at 00:32:04
 
I still think having TM2 with TM1 maps included would be the best compromise. Ideally, two games would be best, but I think having anything more than TM2 would never happen. Mixing the two, you could then have a comprehensive game with the 1v1 game mode implemented.

The problem is the fact that the gameplay is so different between the two games. TM2 is much more comic and fantasy based where as TM1 is decently rooted in reality. Things like oil slicks and tire spikes are more realistic as well as the inability to shield or jump without some sort of external device.

It couldn't really be made into just simply a game mode while maintaining the feel of TM1. I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that TM1's feel will likely be lost in the remaster process unless they really go balls out and remaster several from the franchise.

I think another interesting thing to note would be how the tone would be replicated in the game. I wonder what kind of stylistic liberties the new developers would make. It's not just and HD upscale, it's a full blown remaster. The world was relatively bland in TM1 due to hardware restrictions, so I'm curious to see what would come of the new environments. I also wonder if in this newfound time period if Sony would get behind things like blowing up the Eiffel Tower. I know that TMX blew up the Statue of Liberty, but still, people are overly sensitive.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #49 - 02/20/18 at 02:48:59
 
MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 02/19/18 at 20:03:04:
I still don't see how TM1 having online would split the community. TM1 fans are TM2 fans anyway, and World Tour's online wouldn't be hurt because it'd remain the more popular option among that group of fans. For every 80 players playing TM2 there would be 20 players playing TM1 at most.
Without online TM1's return would be pointless since it's multiplayer would go to waste. the only thing they could do to make an offline TM1 interesting would be to redo the text endings to match TM2's comic book style of endings. and to add a challenge mode.

TMBO and TM2's online modes existing at the same time on PS4, that'd split the community most likely. It is not easy deciding which is the better option because each have their own merits and it would be hard to give each equal time. An argument can also be made that TM4 & Head-On might steal away TM2/B players a situation where those games had online multiplayer too, although those games returning is not happening, as are the chances for Small Brawl, TMIII, & TMX. Sony already decided that TM1, 2, and Black are the only games they can make any money on, although I don't think they are necessarily right. They could also try and do like the Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1&2 remasters -- release a bundle of a couple remasters that you could buy individually rather than as a bundle... for example, have a TM1+2 Remaster for about 30 dollars & a TMB+TMBO Remaster also for around that price, & you could buy them individually to save money or buy them as a slightly discounted bundle. That way people have the option of saving money and picking their chosen poison since not everyone who loved TM1/2 necessarily loved TMB/TMBO (just like how not everyone who loved Ultimate Alliance 1 loved Ultimate Alliance 2). And if one happened to be more successful than the other... then it could influence the direction that the series goes in the future.


I think having 2 online components to TM1 and TM2 would lead to some sort of divide among the player base. Plus that's 2 servers Sony has to run and possible monitor for balance, that's too much cost for a project that needs to be cost-efficient.

If you have just TM2 be online you have the userbase completely under one roof and you don't have some users going over to TM1 or flipping back and forth.

I am all for more Twisted Metal and I love the raw and unique nature of TM1 so I would love to see a combo of TM1 and TM2 HD for 30-40$ with both games having online components. But I just don't see Sony doing such a project for both cost and pragmatic reasons. I think at best you get TM1 levels (Rooftops and Suburbs) added into the TM2 maps like they did in the original.

Once again I would love to see TM1 online, but just looking at it pragmatically I don't see Sony doing it. I also think that the cost point has to be kept under 30$ sure more content like having 2 online games justifies the price for hardcore fans but you need to get a lower price point to attract the casual market which is less likely to spend 40$ on a pair of HD remaster with 2 online components. That extra online component is going to only appeal to hardcore fans.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #50 - 02/20/18 at 03:00:21
 
tmfan89 wrote on 02/20/18 at 02:48:59:
I think having 2 online components to TM1 and TM2 would lead to some sort of divide among the player base. Plus that's 2 servers Sony has to run and possible monitor for balance, that's too much cost for a project that needs to be cost-efficient.

If you have just TM2 be online you have the userbase completely under one roof and you don't have some users going over to TM1 or flipping back and forth.

I am all for more Twisted Metal and I love the raw and unique nature of TM1 so I would love to see a combo of TM1 and TM2 HD for 30-40$ with both games having online components. But I just don't see Sony doing such a project for both cost and pragmatic reasons. I think at best you get TM1 levels (Rooftops and Suburbs) added into the TM2 maps like they did in the original.

Once again I would love to see TM1 online, but just looking at it pragmatically I don't see Sony doing it. I also think that the cost point has to be kept under 30$ sure more content like having 2 online games justifies the price for hardcore fans but you need to get a lower price point to attract the casual market which is less likely to spend 40$ on a pair of HD remaster with 2 online components. That extra online component is going to only appeal to hardcore fans.


I think if you are looking at it from Sony's perspective you are trying to appeal to the casual crowd of people that have fond memories of Twisted Metal 2. There is a hardcore fanbase of Twisted Metal that will buy almost any decently made TM game. But that player base is small compared to the casual market that fondly remembers the PS1 game.

So I think at best you can hope for a 30$ combo TM1 HD remaster (no online) and a TM2 HD remaster with online. Or a TM2 HD remaster stand alone with online for 20$ and the suburbs and rooftop levels from TM 1 (And maybe Jet Moto) included as extra levels.

I think if I am Sony I am just focusing my efforts on nailing the TM2 HD remaster and getting a simple but functional online component. 20$ is cheap enough and profitable enough to make a game appealing to the casual audience. It's a small enough project where if you sell 400k downloads at 15-20$ a piece you can easily make a nice chunk of change off of it and it you sell close to a million copies it kind of proves the franchise still has some drawing power.

As a hardcore fan, I would want TM1 HD, TM2 HD, and TMB HD all with online components. Each game is unique and I would love to play them all online with a wide range of users that is easily accessible. But I think that just looking at where the market is for Twisted Metal in general you can't expect such large projects for a game with a relatively small fan base.

Start with a remaster of the series most popular game and see where that goes.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #51 - 02/20/18 at 03:08:48
 
MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 02/19/18 at 22:14:07:
There are some things I like better in 1 than in 2. I really think the original gets unappreciated, and in part I think it's that people were so attracted to the "World Tour" feature that they didn't feel the first game offered as much creativity. but what i did like more;

-Hammerhead is wayyyy better in TM1. It's not even up for debate. TM2 Hammerhead fucking sucks and any defense for TM2 HH is based on that version having a better story/ending.

-TM1 had Darkside whereas TM2 only has DS in an options menu which is a total tease and it annoys me every time I play TM2.

-(up for debate) Pit Viper is better than Grasshopper. I didn't like playing as Grasshopper. That special felt like hopping towards suicide.

-TM1's simpler combat gave AI/players less opportunities to play cheap because you couldn't just freeze enemies easily (unless you picked up a freeze missile on the map), and you couldn't shield. Because of this, multiplayer duel matches played out differently than they did in TM2 - and there were no big maps available in TM1's multiplayer so I felt that duels were more fair in the 1st game. Every game after has more unbalanced multiplayer modes because of advanced combos and larger maps. TM1 was the only one where you didn't need to create new rules to balance out matches.

Also, TM2 NEEDS those extra TM1 maps (original suburbs and rooftops). Those were among the most popular maps when people were playing TM2 PC and still among the 2 best maps in the entire series.


TM1 is way more raw than TM2. TM2 made the game a fighting game in cars while TM1 tried to be a more realistic approach to to car combat.

There were some plus and minuses to it. For one the lack of shield and native freeze changed the way the game was played, it made it navigating the environments and managing your inventory a bigger factor in matches.

But I thought the level design of TM1 was bland, suburbs and rooftops were great but the rest of the levels just didn't hit home, not saying they were bad but they just weren't great.

I also thought that the car controls of TM1 while more realistic just made navigating the environments harder. TM2 made the controls less realistic but it game the player a better sense of control.

I love the raw nature of TM1, it is a game birthing a genre and figuring a lot of things out. TM2 smoothed out a lot of the rough edges and made the game better and smoothed out a lot of the rough edges.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #52 - 02/20/18 at 03:13:01
 
Lets be clear car combat was around before Twisted Metal
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #53 - 02/20/18 at 03:13:11
 
†Adonael wrote on 02/19/18 at 10:57:25:
Sorce code for a lot of singletrac originals were lost. Jet moto, twisted and warhawk being among them.


I wonder why that was the case. In less than 10 years they lost the source code (I remember hearing about the source code being lost when TMHO was being developed?)

I know game preservation from the 70's into the early 00's was not a priority to studios but it seems odd that they would lost the source code to highly popular games in such a quick manner.

I don't have the best technical knowledge but does anyone know if not having the source code would be a big impediment to a remaster?
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #54 - 02/20/18 at 03:15:33
 
Yes. You'd have to start from scratch and basically recreate a whole new game. If you don't have the source code you might as well just make a new game because it's going to take the same amount of work.
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Re: Twisted Metal 1 and/or 2 remaster speculation
Reply #55 - 02/20/18 at 03:23:18
 
†Adonael wrote on 02/20/18 at 03:15:33:
Yes. You'd have to start from scratch and basically recreate a whole new game. If you don't have the source code you might as well just make a new game because it's going to take the same amount of work.


Sadly that might be a big impediment to the game getting made. Maybe they use the TMPS3 engine and try and recreate TM2 with that engine. Probably would bring costs down to work with an established engine unless creating new assets for that engine is expensive.

Trying to figure out the economics of getting a game made is what really can dampen a hardcore fans spirits. Glad there is a good mod community at the very least.
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