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TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim (Read 749 times)
Muddeh
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TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
04/08/17 at 15:38:47
 
If you were involved with TM 2012 during the initial months and were part of the crowd that was disgruntled about the difficulty to dodge weapons, you may have played some matches with manual aim (all players on the same team with friendly fire enabled) or imposed rules to reduce the impact of auto-aim. And more likely than not, you found it to be boring. With the limited skill players had with most weapons and vehicles, fights were usually quite drawn-out and stale to the point manual-aim matches became such a niche variant that they were entirely dropped by the community. By the time competitive scene was established and there were consistent rules for battles and wars, most everyone committed to play the game by the broader rules.

A number of vehicles/tactics were banned as they were found illegitimate or broken, but banning auto-aim entirely imposed a whole new set of rules. Truth be told, veterans in TM 2012 hadn't played no auto-aim rules in many years, and certainly not since players reached their primes after years of playing. We do goof around here and there, mixing up some settings and playing some minigames in a casual setting. However, since most of us found those rules to be boring at that time years back, that stigma has carried over the years. However, in light of some recent chats (partially influenced by posts here as well) I've arranged some lobbies with modified no auto-aim rules, which are outlined below. Note that any other weapons with homing ability are not listed because they are considered consistently dodgeable.

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No homers.
No snipers.
Half-charge stalkers at maximum.
Do not use remote bombs for homing (environmental and detnoballs are fine).

No DW, RK, OL or VM primary or secondary special.
No MW primary special.
No DS seconary special.

No rockets sidearm.
Only use freeze missile from close range.

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We've played by these rules a number of times now, and I recorded a few matches on one evening as shown below. Note that in this lobby there's a range of skill and not every player is a veteran stretching back to the game's launch, but everyone's a respectable players nonetheless. There's a couple instances where homers get misfired, or stalkers may get a tad overcharged, but the impact is negligible. Health was also banned for these matches, aside from mercy bonuses. The recording for the Axel video skips a tad later in the video, sorry for that.









Once you take away the auto-aim, the game appears much more resemblant of previous TMs in terms of deliberate offence and defence. There's a definite presence of stagger-based combos, and both the potential for deliberate and by-chance dodging is evident. One thing that can't be erased is the speed of missiles which really shorten reaction times if playing a lightweight, and can make some weapons impossible to dodge for a heavy if they aren't already driving at a proper angle from the attacker to be able to avoid it. This means heavies will still tank fire and stalker missiles quite frequently, but as demonstrated in these matches, they can still be frequently dodged.

Although this mode has its merits and represents a lot of the tweaks I wish had actually come to fruition before patching and balancing came to a halt, I don't foresee this variant becoming the norm for standard competitive unranked the future. However, it really is a nice break from some of the frustration of auto-aim. It would be really awesome to perhaps see some TM2/TMBO vets who dropped the game back in the day give it another with these rules, now that the balance isn't whack and the servers are far more tolerable. Hopefully the videos are an enjoyable watch.  Smiley
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #1 - 04/09/17 at 01:20:26
 
My hope is that one day you finally understand what dodging is and the impact it has when done right. Running behind cover or the opponent missing is NOT dodging. Dodging is knowing something is coming that is going to 100% hit you and maneuvering your car in a way that makes it miss. No matter how much you butcher the game, dodging can not exist in any meaningful way like past TMs due to weapons moving at the speed of light. The levels themselves are built around no dodging and speed of light weapons.

No one was "disgruntled about the "difficulty" to dodge weapons". They were disgruntled that dodging didn't exist in a meaningful way like past TMs. This also wasn't the only thing people were disgruntled about. The car choices are straight garbage with many cars sharing the same specials. You even reinforce this as every car you used had a shockwave special. Then you have specials that are watered down like TMB darkside vs TMX darkside for example.

Those 2 main things along with other minor things plus connection issues which still exist to this day is why no one has any intention of ever playing it again.
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Muddeh
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #2 - 04/09/17 at 02:59:02
 
If you're going to offer unabridged criticism, at least make it intelligent instead of being a broken record saying that meaningful dodging doesn't exist, when it clearly does. That's not a topic of debate. Darkside does not have a shockwave special. You aren't aware of simple knowledge like that? Four vehicles have shockwaves, all of which have different attributes and can be dodged.

If you're concerned about vehicles being watered-down, you must have been up in arms that Axel didn't have its grossly overpowered damage mitigation and wasn't an untouchable god. Some watering down is bad, and some is also positive and is nesecarily to balance a game, so using 'watered down' as a blanket term is very misinformed, not to mention your lack of awareness of how much technique is involved in playing an effective Darkside in either game.

The purpose of this thread is not to rag on about the flaws of the game. I know you have nothing to contribute to this thread since you can't handle dissenting views and continually deny cold hard evidence. Unfortunately, your opinions don't become the truth simply because that's what you set your username as. If you have something new to say, have at it. If all you have to offer is regurgitated denialism, save our time and take my prior advice to do something with your life you can actually be proud of.
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Malefactor
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #3 - 04/09/17 at 03:16:50
 
Muddeh wrote on 04/09/17 at 02:59:02:
If you're going to offer unabridged criticism, at least make it intelligent instead of being a broken record saying that meaningful dodging doesn't exist, when it clearly does. That's not a topic of debate. Darkside does not have a shockwave special. You aren't aware of simple knowledge like that? Four vehicles have shockwaves, all of which have different attributes and can be dodged.

If you're concerned about vehicles being watered-down, you must have been up in arms that Axel didn't have its grossly overpowered damage mitigation and wasn't an untouchable god. Some watering down is bad, and some is also positive and is nesecarily to balance a game, so using 'watered down' as a blanket term is very misinformed, not to mention your lack of awareness of how much technique is involved in playing an effective Darkside in either game.

The purpose of this thread is not to rag on about the flaws of the game. I know you have nothing to contribute to this thread since you can't handle dissenting views and continually deny cold hard evidence. Unfortunately, your opinions don't become the truth simply because that's what you set your username as. If you have something new to say, have at it. If all you have to offer is regurgitated denialism, save our time and take my prior advice to do something with your life you can actually be proud of.


Come on Muddeh, you can't dodge a shockwave.  That is exactly why Truth says you don't even get what we're talking about.

Axel and Shadow have shockwaves in TMB.  You can't dodge them.  Even we admit that.
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #4 - 04/09/17 at 03:34:17
 
Malefactor wrote on 04/09/17 at 03:16:50:
you can't dodge a shockwave

You can jump shockwaves.
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #5 - 04/09/17 at 03:57:06
 
When do you usually have these lobbies up?
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #6 - 04/09/17 at 04:03:04
 
Muddeh wrote on 04/09/17 at 03:34:17:
You can jump shockwaves.


Do they travel that slow? Seems like you'd have to jump just hoping they used it. Not that you could really see it and then jump.

Post a picture if you can.
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #7 - 04/09/17 at 04:05:40
 
Malefactor wrote on 04/09/17 at 04:03:04:
Do they travel that slow? Seems like you'd have to jump just hoping they used it. Not that you could really see it and then jump.

Post a picture if you can.


You can hear them charging.
You can see them charging.
You can expect them to be coming (map)

And if you want to see how fast they travel...well...
My picture?
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #8 - 04/09/17 at 04:23:09
 
Oh, please forgive me Muddeh! I forgot you were darkside in one match since the video thumbnail is covering the car with an explosion. Still doesn't change the fact that many cars are all sharing a few specials.

No one EVER said you couldn't dodge anything. We've said too much shit couldn't be dodged and what could be dodged couldn't be done in a consistent manner or that the few things that could be dodged wouldn't have much impact overall on how the game played.

I don't know how God's damage mitigation has anything to do with watered down specials in TMX. You are talking numbers which makes sense since we know you are all about the numbers. However I'm talking mechanics and gameplay. Darkside's special in TMX is a watered down piece of shit compared to the depth it had in TMB. I'd love to hear your input on the technique involved playing TMB darkside. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge with all your play time.

The purpose of this thread was exactly to rag on the flaws of TMX. It is directed at TM2PC/TMBO players and you are trying to shove a shit sandwich down their throats. What response did you really think you were going to get?

Hell, maybe I'm totally wrong about dodging. You could easily prove it. Pick one video and point out everywhere with the time where you or your opponent truly dodged something. You can also point out places where you or your opponet shot something in a certain way as to not give you a chance to dodge.
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Malefactor
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #9 - 04/09/17 at 05:04:21
 
Mr.DooM wrote on 04/09/17 at 04:05:40:
You can hear them charging.
You can see them charging.
You can expect them to be coming (map)

And if you want to see how fast they travel...well...
My picture?


You do realize that's still not dodging though, right?
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #10 - 04/09/17 at 05:08:19
 
Malefactor wrote on 04/09/17 at 05:04:21:
You do realize that's still not dodging though, right?


Never said it is, and don't really care if it's not.
Will jumping make me avoid the damage? Yes. Then perfect.

And I replied to your questions about jumping. Dodging wasn't mentioned and so I did not mention it.
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #11 - 04/09/17 at 05:15:56
 
Muddeh wrote on 04/09/17 at 02:59:02:
Darkside does not have a shockwave special. You aren't aware of simple knowledge like that? Four vehicles have shockwaves, all of which have different attributes and can be dodged.
.


You didn't? What am I missing here?
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Mr.DooM
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #12 - 04/09/17 at 05:17:53
 
Malefactor wrote on 04/09/17 at 05:15:56:
You didn't? What am I missing here?


Ummm...

I'm not Muddy...

Hello? Read the name?
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #13 - 04/09/17 at 05:30:58
 
Mr.DooM wrote on 04/09/17 at 05:17:53:
Ummm...

I'm not Muddy...

Hello? Read the name?


Sorry, playing TMBO, and admittedly didn't care enough to dig too deep.
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Mr.DooM
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Re: TM 2012, Minus Auto-Aim
Reply #14 - 04/09/17 at 05:37:16
 
Malefactor wrote on 04/09/17 at 05:30:58:
Sorry, playing TMBO, and admittedly didn't care enough to dig too deep.


Hahahahah

Alright. Have fun, man.
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