The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
Anyone with real experience with both will agree and say the same. Even someone with no TMBO expereince and a little bit of common sense can understand that TMBO with more complex combat will take longer to master.
I like how you generally state "anyone with real experience with both" and don't name anybody. That's because you don't know anybody who played TM 2012 since the clan scene and high-skill matches hit their stride, do you? If you do, name them. The only person I'm aware of who plays TM 2012 competitively and also has somewhat recent footage playing TMBO is Luis. The matches he posted on his channel in December 2015 were among the first times he played TDM in the game.
This video shows him putting up a game with massive DD, practically twice the DD as the rest of the lobby.
This video shows him putting up another game with strong DD and another strong win for his team by a wide margin.
This video shows him in a match where his team wins and survives without losing all five lives. On that basis, it sure didn't take him long to be able to hang with the vets.
Even if you factor in that he already has a lot of experience in single player TMB, that he was using a stronger vehicle, and that the lobby may have went easy on him being new to TMBO TDM (though I doubt they were purposefully tanking DD for him, and they may just have been firing a few less missiles his way) you can't deny those are impressive scores for very early online matches for him. In comparison, Luis posted his first online TM 2012 video in November 2013, and it wasn't until close to a year later that he became a mainstay in competitive TDM, became more entwined in the high-skill community, and was made aware of some of the game's nuances like Roadkill's secret stage 4 blood missiles.
I say this all in the context of him being an extremely talented gamer, as videos on his channel of him playing many games will show. Yet by the time he began playing competitively in TM2012 on a regular basis, he had played enough to have cleared the ranked levelling system at least ten times. Do I think he could have been a regular in high-skill lobbies earlier than he was? Certainly, his videos show him able to hold his own in ranked lobbies before then. However, he was able to kick ass in TMBO right off the get-go, not months later. In contrast, based on the first videos of him playing online in TM 2012 using Warthog there's no way he would hold his own against vets in 2013 during his first matches. This all comes after he had recorded single player playthroughs on twisted difficulty with every vehicle as well. Saying that is not a knock to him by any means. I would struggle no less, but it illustrates a clear example that your claim of TMBO taking longer to master than TM2012 is not based on any empirical facts at all. This clear example disproves it.
Of course, you
could prove your point if you weren't such a pussy.
The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
No one is going to come back and play 1 game and be at their best. I never said anyone could come back and compete on their first game Lets just be clear since like usual you don't have any idea what is being said..
When did I say that you said that I would expect you to be competitive in your first match? It's hilarious how you quite literally can't read. I had asked if you were to play a high-skill 2v2, how much of your team's damage do you think you would deal on your first day back? There's no assertion you would be able to compete on your first game, the same way I didn't make a blanket statement that it would take you a long time either. I wanted to gauge just how full of yourself you really are since you say it "wouldn't take long till a group of us that haven't played the game since months after launch were taking turns winning". I had asked that question knowing Luis had been able to put up strong games in one of his first experiences playing TDM. If you say it would take "a few weeks of playing to a month" of playing TM 2012, then congrats. You just stated it would take you longer to become accustomed as a player transitioning from TMBO to TM 2012 than it took for a player from TM 2012 to compete in TMBO. You said it, not me.
Just to be clear, I'm not claiming that either game would take longer than the other myself. Both games are complex in their own rights. The entire point of me bringing up the previous paragraph is simply to show the massive fallacy in stating one game takes longer to master than the other, because both games require the same skillsets. The stark contrast is that in TM 2012 you can occasionally put up decent scores in the right circumstances, but in most high-skill settings the impact of spam is largely mitigated.
The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
I'm linking below a random recent "high skill" team game. Can you point out what is so complex that it would take us long to compete?
Want me to back that video up? You may expect me to, but I won't. From Luis' perspective, that was extremely boring game. There's a number of factors that made that game very dull, the first being that Vertigo is the most spammy map in the game. There's an extremely dense concentration of of homers and stalkers on that map, plus there isn't much environmental cover. It certainly didn't help that that the opposing team was practically all heavies, so battle between a Roadkill and a heavy on that map often break down into war of attrition. It was also a poor game for Luis defensively since there was definitely a number of swarmers that could have been avoided quite easily, not to mention some bad driving between being rammed and falling off the edge.
I was in that match using Darkside on the same team, and it was definitely a more entertaining fight from my end. Being less agile and less capable of controlling the stronger pickups in the centre of the map, I would heave needed to venture to the outskirts and rely more on skill-based weapons for either a higher concentration of damage like powers, or remote bombs to help stagger and set up ram combos, ideally getting the opponent to take environmental damage. I didn't have blood missiles which I could deal ~1000 DD, I likely didn't pick up as many of the spammy weapons in the core of the map and I likely didn't use the trigun at all (I probably use it about once every three games), yet I had very similar scores as him. It's only reasonable to think I would have done more than rely on spam and required to deal my DD in a more skillful manner in that instance.
The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
Are you really that pathetic and insecure that you can't handle someone saying TM 2012 is dumbed down and doesn't take as long to master compared to TMBO?
Are you really that pathetic and insecure that you need to rant how it wouldn't take you much time to be able veterans of a game from five years ago that you hate? Jesus, you need to move on. Find something that will fulfill you more than posting claims on a website that you don't intend to back up. We've gone over it a thousand times. You don't respond directly to my while stroking your nub of an e-penis expecting others to be impressed. Get over your superiority complex and do something with your life you can actually be proud of.