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TM2012 needs to slow down! (Read 9970 times)
The Deadite
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #75 - 02/13/17 at 16:15:33
 
†Adonael wrote on 02/12/17 at 22:39:46:
Like Jaffe said and I said previously when this argument ravaged this community:

They are two diffrerent games, two different entries. They are not made to be alike


Sooo, that said. Quit comparing potatoes to tomatos.

Did Jaffe really said this?
They are part of the exact same series, they should be made alike. Is not like comparing Street Fighter to Mortal Kombat.

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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #76 - 02/13/17 at 20:15:56
 
The Deadite wrote on 02/13/17 at 16:15:33:
Did Jaffe really said this?
They are part of the exact same series, they should be made alike. Is not like comparing Street Fighter to Mortal Kombat.



Eh, I'm going off memory here but my memory says, "kind of."

At first, prior to the game's release, Jaffe insisted he was listening to our feedback in order to make the best Twisted ever.  He did emphasize he wasn't a "made to order" chef who would do whatever we wanted, but his goal was still to amaze us and he understood what we were saying.

Then the game came out and not only repeated the mistakes of past games we'd emphatically warned him about, but aggravated some of them even further.  At that point he was like, "Shut up you whiny ungrateful bitches, this is a new game."

So the truth is kind of somewhere in between.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #77 - 02/13/17 at 22:28:35
 
The Deadite wrote on 02/13/17 at 16:15:33:
Did Jaffe really said this?
They are part of the exact same series, they should be made alike. Is not like comparing Street Fighter to Mortal Kombat.



Anytime he's asked about the series as a whole he always explains how each entire into the series is it's own and none of them are meant to be like the other. Which is kinda ironic given the fact of Head on and what was going to be harbor city.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #78 - 02/14/17 at 09:15:03
 
I played TMBO but only stayed for only a few weeks I think. I didn't stayed long. Ever since Twisted Metal Head On I have always liked Team Deathmatch over free for all. I'm not saying I can't win in normal Deathmatch in TM PS3 I just find teams more fun. Even if I win I still don't like it. When I found out that TMBO doesn't have a team mode I was surprised. We still did pretend teams where you have to be careful not to shoot your teammates or else they'll die. I enjoyed that but the problem is free for all in TMBO was the norm. Team Deathmatch was only played on Saturday and I got bored of that after a while. Well it makes sense that free for all in TMBO is the norm because there is no real team setting. TMPS3 had many Deathmatch rooms too but at least I didn't have to wait a whole week to play my favorite mode.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #79 - 02/15/17 at 00:53:02
 
The Truth wrote on 02/12/17 at 22:54:59:
I'll see ya tonight!

... and he hasn't even logged on TMA since his last post. Cool.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #80 - 02/15/17 at 19:35:28
 
Wow, that completely went over your head. You are definitely quite a bit dumber than I imagined.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #81 - 02/17/17 at 23:05:09
 
I should have figured you'd pussy out, but I was I also foolish enough to think you had a slight bit of honour. You say it wouldn't take long till a group of you that haven't played the game since months (or apparently now, less than three weeks) after launch were taking turns winning with a group of "pros" that have been playing since launch. Are you really going to make a statement of that nature and not even play a single game to back it up, all after you morphed the thread from a discussion of qualities of a TM game into a forum to stroke your ego?

I have nothing to prove to you. You questioned how you think I'll do in TMBO, and I was honest that I won't do much better than you would in TM 2012. The reality is, we'd likely be trampled in each others games regardless of how well we know the mechanics, because it takes time to develop instinct in the game. But you don't think the same of TM 2012 because you believe you can simply spam a few auto-aim weapons and become a pro? If you were to play a high-skill 2v2, how much of your team's damage do you think you would deal on your first day back? What about with zero auto-aim, where the weapons inventory is still larger than TM2's and all of the manual, stagger-inducing and homing weapons which are consistently dodgeable are still present? How is that still a shit show?
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #82 - 02/18/17 at 09:16:29
 
Muddeh wrote on 02/17/17 at 23:05:09:
I should have figured you'd pussy out, but I was I also foolish enough to think you had a slight bit of honour. You say it wouldn't take long till a group of you that haven't played the game since months (or apparently now, less than three weeks) after launch were taking turns winning with a group of "pros" that have been playing since launch. Are you really going to make a statement of that nature and not even play a single game to back it up, all after you morphed the thread from a discussion of qualities of a TM game into a forum to stroke your ego?

I have nothing to prove to you. You questioned how you think I'll do in TMBO, and I was honest that I won't do much better than you would in TM 2012. The reality is, we'd likely be trampled in each others games regardless of how well we know the mechanics, because it takes time to develop instinct in the game. But you don't think the same of TM 2012 because you believe you can simply spam a few auto-aim weapons and become a pro? If you were to play a high-skill 2v2, how much of your team's damage do you think you would deal on your first day back? What about with zero auto-aim, where the weapons inventory is still larger than TM2's and all of the manual, stagger-inducing and homing weapons which are consistently dodgeable are still present? How is that still a shit show?


Yes, I'm saying it and I'm going to continue saying it because it is the truth. It is a fact that TMBO takes longer to master than TM2012. Anyone with real experience with both will agree and say the same. Even someone with no TMBO expereince and a little bit of common sense can understand that TMBO with more complex combat will take longer to master.

What is coming back and playing a single game going to prove? Are you really that stupid? No one is going to come back and play 1 game and be at their best. I never said anyone could come back and compete on their first game. Lets just be clear since like usual you don't have any idea what is being said. People could come back and within a few weeks of playing to a month at maximum can be playing competitively. Like usual again because you are completely ignorant to this topic because of your zero TMBO experience, it takes many months to years to play competitively vs the best in TMBO.

I'm linking below a random recent "high skill" team game. Can you point out what is so complex that it would take us long to compete? All you need to do is go around spamming your best weapons. No thought, aiming, setup, or combos needed, get them in your line of sight and let the spamfest begin. Preferably flanking and focusing someone who your teammate is already attacking. Collect health when possible and avoid as much damage as possible by taking cover. I'm very confident in mine or someone else's ability to do this. I don't know how much damage exactly I would have on the first game in a 2v2. However I know I can jam whatever weapons I want up your tailpipe and there is not a goddamn thing you can do to stop it.



You are the only one stroking your ego. For years any time someone speaks the truth on TM 2012, you go off  trying to argue some point where you are completely wrong due to simply not understanding or having zero past TM experience. Are you really that pathetic and insecure that you can't handle someone saying TM 2012 is dumbed down and doesn't take as long to master compared to TMBO? We aren't saying it as an insult to you, its simply the truth. I play other games that have been dumbed down compared to their previous installment which I did not experience. I don't have a nervous s breakdown when someone says it is dumbed down, I agree with them especially after seeing it for myself. It doesn't mean you have to stop playing the game or feel like an idiot. Hell, almost all games in general are dumbed down today.

Now you demand I come play 1 game with you right now so you can reassure yourself how good you think you are? Then demand we play in a way that is essentially a ramming match with a few straight shot weapons? We are going to play a completely retarded match where we don't use 80% of the cars/weapons in game? What the fuck does that prove or change in regards to TM 2012 being dumbed down or quicker to master than TMBO?  I'd actually be afraid to come because if I somehow did win, i don't think you would handle it well. I don't want you to slit your wrists or take a bottle of pills. That wouldn't be good because I need you alive so I educate you and tell you how it is so maybe some day you see the light.

You actually do have something to prove. It is time you proved some things you claimed over the past years. Lets start with the latest one you just stated again. I dare you to post one of your videos of a high skill team game where you or opponents are dodging some things consistently. I triple dog dare you! Go ahead, do it
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #83 - 02/18/17 at 22:18:59
 
At first when I read his final paragraph I thought he was saying that homing missiles are dodgeable too.

However, I read it again and I think what he was saying is they would have a gentleman's agreement to only play with homing missiles that are dodgeable (so fire missiles - which have slight homing capability - are legal in the game, homings are not, charged stalkers are not, swarm missiles with slight homing are, etc.).

Edit:  It's amazing how I can watch just two minutes of that video and be bored out of my ever loving mind. It's like watching two ninja warriors with their arms tied behind their backs taking turns kicking each other in the junk. Except not as entertaining.  Tongue Cheesy
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #84 - 02/24/17 at 07:03:30
 
I think the light cars dont have enough health and I think some classic cars like twister, thumper, grasshopper and slam would have been great.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #85 - 03/09/17 at 03:32:28
 
The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
Anyone with real experience with both will agree and say the same. Even someone with no TMBO expereince and a little bit of common sense can understand that TMBO with more complex combat will take longer to master.

I like how you generally state "anyone with real experience with both" and don't name anybody. That's because you don't know anybody who played TM 2012 since the clan scene and high-skill matches hit their stride, do you? If you do, name them. The only person I'm aware of who plays TM 2012 competitively and also has somewhat recent footage playing TMBO is Luis. The matches he posted on his channel in December 2015 were among the first times he played TDM in the game. This video shows him putting up a game with massive DD, practically twice the DD as the rest of the lobby. This video shows him putting up another game with strong DD and another strong win for his team by a wide margin. This video shows him in a match where his team wins and survives without losing all five lives. On that basis, it sure didn't take him long to be able to hang with the vets.

Even if you factor in that he already has a lot of experience in single player TMB, that he was using a stronger vehicle, and that the lobby may have went easy on him being new to TMBO TDM (though I doubt they were purposefully tanking DD for him, and they may just have been firing a few less missiles his way) you can't deny those are impressive scores for very early online matches for him. In comparison, Luis posted his first online TM 2012 video in November 2013, and it wasn't until close to a year later that he became a mainstay in competitive TDM, became more entwined in the high-skill community, and was made aware of some of the game's nuances like Roadkill's secret stage 4 blood missiles.

I say this all in the context of him being an extremely talented gamer, as videos on his channel of him playing many games will show. Yet by the time he began playing competitively in TM2012 on a regular basis, he had played enough to have cleared the ranked levelling system at least ten times. Do I think he could have been a regular in high-skill lobbies earlier than he was? Certainly, his videos show him able to hold his own in ranked lobbies before then. However, he was able to kick ass in TMBO right off the get-go, not months later. In contrast, based on the first videos of him playing online in TM 2012 using Warthog there's no way he would hold his own against vets in 2013 during his first matches. This all comes after he had recorded single player playthroughs on twisted difficulty with every vehicle as well. Saying that is not a knock to him by any means. I would struggle no less, but it illustrates a clear example that your claim of TMBO taking longer to master than TM2012 is not based on any empirical facts at all. This clear example disproves it.

Of course, you could prove your point if you weren't such a pussy.

The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
No one is going to come back and play 1 game and be at their best. I never said anyone could come back and compete on their first game Lets just be clear since like usual you don't have any idea what is being said..

When did I say that you said that I would expect you to be competitive in your first match? It's hilarious how you quite literally can't read. I had asked if you were to play a high-skill 2v2, how much of your team's damage do you think you would deal on your first day back? There's no assertion you would be able to compete on your first game, the same way I didn't make a blanket statement that it would take you a long time either. I wanted to gauge just how full of yourself you really are since you say it "wouldn't take long till a group of us that haven't played the game since months after launch were taking turns winning". I had asked that question knowing Luis had been able to put up strong games in one of his first experiences playing TDM. If you say it would take "a few weeks of playing to a month" of playing TM 2012, then congrats. You just stated it would take you longer to become accustomed as a player transitioning from TMBO to TM 2012 than it took for a player from TM 2012 to compete in TMBO. You said it, not me.

Just to be clear, I'm not claiming that either game would take longer than the other myself. Both games are complex in their own rights. The entire point of me bringing up the previous paragraph is simply to show the massive fallacy in stating one game takes longer to master than the other, because both games require the same skillsets. The stark contrast is that in TM 2012 you can occasionally put up decent scores in the right circumstances, but in most high-skill settings the impact of spam is largely mitigated.

The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
I'm linking below a random recent "high skill" team game. Can you point out what is so complex that it would take us long to compete?

Want me to back that video up? You may expect me to, but I won't. From Luis' perspective, that was extremely boring game. There's a number of factors that made that game very dull, the first being that Vertigo is the most spammy map in the game. There's an extremely dense concentration of of homers and stalkers on that map, plus there isn't much environmental cover. It certainly didn't help that that the opposing team was practically all heavies, so battle between a Roadkill and a heavy on that map often break down into war of attrition. It was also a poor game for Luis defensively since there was definitely a number of swarmers that could have been avoided quite easily, not to mention some bad driving between being rammed and falling off the edge.

I was in that match using Darkside on the same team, and it was definitely a more entertaining fight from my end. Being less agile and less capable of controlling the stronger pickups in the centre of the map, I would heave needed to venture to the outskirts and rely more on skill-based weapons for either a higher concentration of damage like powers, or remote bombs to help stagger and set up ram combos, ideally getting the opponent to take environmental damage. I didn't have blood missiles which I could deal ~1000 DD, I likely didn't pick up as many of the spammy weapons in the core of the map and I likely didn't use the trigun at all (I probably use it about once every three games), yet I had very similar scores as him. It's only reasonable to think I would have done more than rely on spam and required to deal my DD in a more skillful manner in that instance.

The Truth wrote on 02/18/17 at 09:16:29:
Are you really that pathetic and insecure that you can't handle someone saying TM 2012 is dumbed down and doesn't take as long to master compared to TMBO?

Are you really that pathetic and insecure that you need to rant how it wouldn't take you much time to be able veterans of a game from five years ago that you hate? Jesus, you need to move on. Find something that will fulfill you more than posting claims on a website that you don't intend to back up. We've gone over it a thousand times. You don't respond directly to my while stroking your nub of an e-penis expecting others to be impressed. Get over your superiority complex and do something with your life you can actually be proud of.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #86 - 03/09/17 at 08:06:35
 
Muddeh wrote on 03/09/17 at 03:32:28:
Are you really that pathetic and insecure that you need to rant how it wouldn't take you much time to be able veterans of a game from five years ago that you hate? Jesus, you need to move on. Find something that will fulfill you more than posting claims on a website that you don't intend to back up. We've gone over it a thousand times. You don't respond directly to my while stroking your nub of an e-penis expecting others to be impressed. Get over your superiority complex and do something with your life you can actually be proud of.


Says the guy that took almost 3 weeks to come up with a response. Did it really take you almost 3 weeks to come up with this? SAD!

Thanks for posting videos of showing luis "hang with the vets", you made me piss myself laughing. Let me break down some things for you since you have no idea what is even going on due to your whopping 0 hours of TMBO play time and your piss poor comprehension.

First of all the people that play TMBO now do not play it in some prime of the game clan battle environment. There is also only a few of the better players even in the room. Some people that play TMBO now a days just started playing. Some have been playing longer but aren't the best.

Secondly the better especially the best players hardly go after newer or less skilled players and when they do they don't do anything that would do massive amounts of damage to them. Main reason being they would be killed out the game pretty quickly. Its not a whole lot of fun for someone new or not really good to spend the majority of the time sitting and watching from spectator. It also doesn't help them get better, more time as possible in game does.

The majority of luis's damage is on one player around his own skill level. He's also getting extra damage via friendly firing his team. No, luis did not do good or "hang with the vets" LMAO. It doesn't matter how high or good you/him think his numbers were. What matters is he was a points bucket and did nothing impressive to the better players or defensively. He could do 1000 damage every game and it wouldn't matter if it wasn't done on the better players. What luis done in those games actually had no impact on the games what so ever. The games were decided on how the better players did and what teams/cars were used.

Tbh I'm sure if those TMBOers knew ignoring luis or balancing teams to give him the most play time possible was going to be thrown back in their faces. They wouldn't of pissed around with him and the videos would show him out the game in a few minutes with little damage done.

Nice moronic attempt trying to prove a point you don't have. Maybe take another 3 weeks and try again? While you are at it, post the video already showing people consistently dodging things in high skill games like you've claimed multiple times over the past years. If you need more weeks, months, or years to come up with it then that is ok too. I understand it's hard to post a video that doesn't exist.

Muddeh wrote on 03/09/17 at 03:32:28:
From Luis' perspective, that was extremely boring game. There's a number of factors that made that game very dull, the first being that Vertigo is the most spammy map in the game. There's an extremely dense concentration of of homers and stalkers on that map, plus there isn't much environmental cover. It certainly didn't help that that the opposing team was practically all heavies, so battle between a Roadkill and a heavy on that map often break down into war of attrition.


Yea, no shit. Thank you for confirming what we already know and have been saying.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #87 - 03/09/17 at 13:37:31
 
The Truth wrote on 03/09/17 at 08:06:35:
Says the guy that took almost 3 weeks to come up with a response. Did it really take you almost 3 weeks to come up with this? SAD!

Have you been refreshing this page every five hours for the last three weeks and twitching in anticipation of a response? Good lord, you really need to get a life. Sorry for having kept you waiting for another opportunity to go on another dim-witted tirade.

The Truth wrote on 03/09/17 at 08:06:35:
First of all the people that play TMBO now do not play it in some prime of the game clan battle environment. There is also only a few of the better players even in the room. Some people that play TMBO now a days just started playing. Some have been playing longer but aren't the best.

The Truth wrote on 03/09/17 at 08:06:35:
The majority of luis's damage is on one player around his own skill level.

The Truth wrote on 03/09/17 at 08:06:35:
luis did not do good

Holy shit, are you ever grasping at straws. In the context of these matches being among the first times he played TDM in the game, you're seriously going to say he did not do good? First of all, there's nobody in that lobby that's remotely new to TMBO TDM besides Luis. Everyone there has played the game online for years and is a very notable member of the TMA community, so don't bullshit by saying "some people that play TMBO now a days just started playing" as if attributing to that lobby. Sure, the atmosphere in the community is more casual, but that sure doesn't mean the players don't have years of experience playing the game and haven't retained their knowledge and skills from years past, even if they don't play frequently enough to be in their prime. If you're going to knock players in that lobby down by saying they're of the same skill level as Luis, and attribute that skill level to not playing good, at least have the courtesy to name those players who you just ambiguously criticized. Because he dealt lots of damage to Mosh, is Mosh now of equal level as a new player to TMBO? How about Orion and Roadie, who Luis got some pretty harsh combos on?

The Truth wrote on 03/09/17 at 08:06:35:
Secondly the better especially the best players hardly go after newer or less skilled players and when they do they don't do anything that would do massive amounts of damage to them.

I can see it being quite possible a few less missiles may have been his way and and the lobby may have targeted him less for combos (a point which I already mentioned), but that still doesn't explain his high DD. Are you going to say the opposing team was purposefully tanking his weapons too? That I highly doubt, and it would be of no benefit to helping somemone develop as a player if you allow for them to find success with poor offence that would be dodged and negated.

The Truth wrote on 03/09/17 at 08:06:35:
He could do 1000 damage every game and it wouldn't matter if it wasn't done on the better players.

How is 1000 DD not pulling your weight in a lobby with players that have played the game for many years? It's not like he's boosting his stats off someone incompetent. Mosh is a veteran, hence why Luis was able to "hang with the vets". You might not call Mosh a pro, but he's definitely still a veteran. I'll credit him the same title in TM 2012, even if he is a ranked Talon/Jugg jackoff in that game. 1000 DD adds up to about eight full-health kills, so that fact alone shows he targeted more than one player that match and allowed the rest of his team to have more situations where they were able to double up on the stronger players since Luis was already pulling more than his own weight. Even if you take ~50 DD off his score in that match due to friendly fire, that's still a drop in the bucket relative to the damage he dealt. Saying "what luis done in those games actually had no impact on the games what so ever" only further proves you have an extreme and irrational bias against anything which upsets your superiority complex.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #88 - 03/09/17 at 23:24:08
 
TL;DR this whole thread.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #89 - 03/09/17 at 23:39:12
 
Don't try to pivot from the fact that you worked on that response for the past 3 weeks. SAD!

He didn't do good in the way you think but to the simple minded like you who think big numbers means all it looks like he did. You wouldn't know who is new and who isn't because like every clueless thing you post on the forum you have no experience with. New in TMBO means limited play time with good players. Half the room in those videos only started really playing with kai or the fan server. There also isn't the luxury anymore of being able to log in and play whenever for however long you want. They might only get to play a few hours a week at most. Main point being this isn't a room full of the best players playing clan battles aka highest level of play which is what you are going by on TM 2012.

His 1000 damage game is a load of shit. If I remember right I've seen it before but it appears the youtube comments are gone. It wasn't even a legit game because there was something going on that ruined the game. Skype issues, someone was afk, or teams were wrong. I don't remember what was said in the comments. Someone else will have to confirm what happened.At that point some people were pissing around which explains there is moments where people just let him hit them.

I did take a look at the next game in asylum. Mosh was the only one that went after him, everyone else mostly ignored him. Almost 500 of his damage was gained from Mosh and friendly fire. How much damage he did doesn't matter because hes not killing the better players or able to defend against them. If this was some clan battle environment with the best of the best. He would be eliminated out the game pretty quickly with little damage done making it a 3v4 battle.

Sorry you don't measure how good someone is or does simply by damage numbers. I'm sure that is a good indicator in a easy combat spamfest like TM 2012 but unfortunately it doesn't work that way in TMBO. Especailly when the better players aren't going after you so you don't get eliminated quick. If people are going easy on you that means you have no pressure on you and are free to drive around doing what you want. Which also means you will be in game longer to be able to put out more damage. Hope that solved the big mystery for you on how you can do more damage if people are hardly going after you.

Yes, Mosh is a veteran. Being a veteran though doesn't mean you are the best. The original point that it takes longer to be competitive in TMBO than TM 2012 at the highest level of play is still the truth. Based on your retard logic, someone could join whatever random room is up on TM2012 and do the most damage. Then be considered as "hanging" even though I didn't play or do nothing against the better players.

If you/luis think those high numbers are so good. Then clearly luis is the best, hes better than everyone. Luis should come back and do a game with the best players currently playing TMBO where they actually go after him. They can balance the teams around luis being the best as well. Surely he'll lead his team to a win with his massive damage. I will then bow down to you once the video is posted of it.

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