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TM2012 needs to slow down! (Read 4198 times)
Malefactor
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #30 - 02/08/17 at 20:29:26
 
Luis wrote on 02/08/17 at 19:13:55:
The spawn location of the full health is still random though. They will sometime spawn on a unoccupied small health spot. Imagine one spawning right on top of you. Grin

Except you guys banned health. The way you guys play the game is pretending that the health doesn't exist. That's not using everything the game forces you to have on the stage. An invisible health turn off option.


Agreed.  I despise healths.  They were an awful thing in TMBO, and it was even more unforgivable that by the time of 2012 they fracked it up again.

Still, if we're going to compare the games "as is," the fact is that TMBO has regular regenerating healths that are predictable.  If you find that to be a plus in a game (which I can't fathom but clearly Muddeh does) they ARE there.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #31 - 02/08/17 at 20:45:13
 
So I'm right that you're not really playing the game without losing your default settings. I just wanted to correct that statement because it wasn't true.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #32 - 02/08/17 at 21:14:05
 
Luis wrote on 02/08/17 at 20:45:13:
So I'm right that you're not really playing the game without losing your default settings. I just wanted to correct that statement because it wasn't true.


No, you're not right Luis.

When I made that statement, I was referring to the actual game settings (i.e. Level choice, mode (LMS, Deathmatch, Carnage, Kills), game time, relics on/off, cars) . . .

In TMBO when you choose those things as host THEY REMAIN FOR THE NEXT MATCH.  At least up until May of 2012 the new game frackin' erased them after every round and you had to start over.

So no, you didn't correct anything.  You just didn't know what the hell was going on and spoke about it anyway.
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Muddeh
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #33 - 02/08/17 at 22:28:28
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/08/17 at 18:50:57:
Yes, I'm sure, at least as it pertains to full healths in TMBO.

You would have mentioned that the partial health pickups are RNG if you were aware, or cared to address the content of my post. Allowing full health pickups would kill the game's pace, so it's not even relevant to mention. We disable the health semi in TM 2012 for that same reason, regardless that its path and regeneration is predictable. Partial health pickups are a different story, and timed respawns of those pickups forges the competitive climate involving map control and greater cause to play aggressive, regardless that the stigma surrounding health is that it encourages and rewards excessively defensive playstyle. That stigma is appropriate in the context of random health (whether it be random timing or spawn locations) but not when it is timed. And it's not the same if the health spawns aren't predictable to the second. When respawns can range wildly, it makes health play nothing more than random dumb luck.

Point being, it's worthwhile to challenge preexisting notions of what does and doesn't work in a vehicle combat game. You ask why I would play TM 2012, which has inferior weapons mechanics, when I can play a previous TM where the weapons system is uncontestedly better? It's because of the many features and accidental depth in the new game that simply is not present in previous TMs. Without playing in a competitive environment (an environment which could not and did not exist during the initial months) you can't appreciate how things like predictable health respawns and killstreaks enhances teamplay, or what ramming/turbo dash and density of pickups/regeneration of specials does to encourage aggression and CQC in a modern game. As usual, the substance of my posts have been entirely ignored to this point, the your posts simply serve to discriminate against those whose opinions don't align with yours.

Summed up quickly, you are cancer that exists in the series. TM 2012 negatively influenced the series' reputation, but claiming it has been irreputably damaged is simply a means to justify basking in your self-contrived echo chamber of hatred. You have proven time and time again you have no interest in responding to the meaningful content of anyone's posts in a constructive manner, let alone responding with decency. When the game is brought up you interject your reasons for hating the game, most of which consist of fallacies you fail to acknowledge, whether or not the game is good is even the subject. You're merely an instigator, and it makes your blood boil to think anything good came from TM 2012 to the point you will refuse to have a rational discussion. If you want the series dead, what's the point of posting in a topic like this which asks what was right and wrong about TM 2012, which naturally serves the purpose of debating the features to implement/downfalls to avoid in a future game? Have you really got nothing better to do?
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #34 - 02/08/17 at 22:56:00
 
Muddeh wrote on 02/08/17 at 22:28:28:
You would have mentioned that the partial health pickups are RNG if you were aware, or cared to address the content of my post. Allowing full health pickups would kill the game's pace, so it's not even relevant to mention. We disable the health semi in TM 2012 for that same reason, regardless that its path and regeneration is predictable. Partial health pickups are a different story, and timed respawns of those pickups forges the competitive climate involving map control and greater cause to play aggressive, regardless that the stigma surrounding health is that it encourages and rewards excessively defensive playstyle. That stigma is appropriate in the context of random health (whether it be random timing or spawn locations) but not when it is timed. And it's not the same if the health spawns aren't predictable to the second. When respawns can range wildly, it makes health play nothing more than random dumb luck.

Point being, it's worthwhile to challenge preexisting notions of what does and doesn't work in a vehicle combat game. You ask why I would play TM 2012, which has inferior weapons mechanics, when I can play a previous TM where the weapons system is uncontestedly better? It's because of the many features and accidental depth in the new game that simply is not present in previous TMs. Without playing in a competitive environment (an environment which could not and did not exist during the initial months) you can't appreciate how things like predictable health respawns and killstreaks enhances teamplay, or what ramming/turbo dash and density of pickups/regeneration of specials does to encourage aggression and CQC in a modern game. As usual, the substance of my posts have been entirely ignored to this point, the your posts simply serve to discriminate against those whose opinions don't align with yours.

Summed up quickly, you are cancer that exists in the series. TM 2012 negatively influenced the series' reputation, but claiming it has been irreputably damaged is simply a means to justify basking in your self-contrived echo chamber of hatred. You have proven time and time again you have no interest in responding to the meaningful content of anyone's posts in a constructive manner, let alone responding with decency. When the game is brought up you interject your reasons for hating the game, most of which consist of fallacies you fail to acknowledge, whether or not the game is good is even the subject. You're merely an instigator, and it makes your blood boil to think anything good came from TM 2012 to the point you will refuse to have a rational discussion. If you want the series dead, what's the point of posting in a topic like this which asks what was right and wrong about TM 2012, which naturally serves the purpose of debating the features to implement/downfalls to avoid in a future game? Have you really got nothing better to do?


Every time I reply to one of these dumb posts I have nothing better to do. 

Look, for all of us who seriously played the previous online games, your game sucks.  You don't see it because you never played them online.  We see it because we did.

You keep going on in melodramatic ways about how much you love the series BUT THAT IS PRECISELY WHY YOU KEEP HAVING TO DEAL WITH ME AND OTHERS LIKE ME.  It's like if you found out your girlfriend, who had been wonderful for a decade, suddenly became a cheating shallow bitch - you'd feel pretty spurned and you'd probably go off about it every once in a while. 

I did love the series - PAST TENSE.  It started to suck.  I don't love something no matter what and your form of Twisted Metal is, in my eyes, better off dead. Baby Metal blows. I want history to know that I'm one of the many who hated it.  It worked for 989's games - maybe if someone picks up the ashes of this dead shell they'll fix these problems.

You have never brought up ONE point that we didn't tear to pieces.  As I've looked at your replies over the years I've realized it's probably because you're just too dumb to even understand what is being said.  There are people out there with that problem.  It doesn't make you bad, it just means you don't understand what the hell a syllogism is, and you couldn't make a pithy focused reply if your life depended on it.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #35 - 02/08/17 at 23:53:24
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/08/17 at 22:56:00:
Every time I reply to one of these dumb posts I have nothing better to do.

I'm glad we got that out of the way. Maybe you should, you know, do something you enjoy rather than bitch about a game you say you have no pride invested in. Or maybe play another game and be involved in another active series rather than harp on about a series that you believe is permanently deceased. Smiley

Malefactor wrote on 02/08/17 at 22:56:00:
It's like if you found out your girlfriend, who had been wonderful for a decade, suddenly became a cheating shallow bitch - you'd feel pretty spurned and you'd probably go off about it every once in a while. 

So... if anybody makes a post involving your ex on Facebook, you immediately comment and tell that she was a cheating shallow itch and they're a moron for being associated with her. And on top of that, doing it five years later? Okay then...

Malefactor wrote on 02/08/17 at 22:56:00:
I don't love something no matter what and your form of Twisted Metal is, in my eyes, better off dead. Baby Metal blows.

I guess you don't want a skill-based, fast-paced, balanced, stable and team-based Twisted Metal with a focus on the gameplay and the online experience, featuring creatively designed vehicles with practical specials, an wide range of battlegrounds, with mechanics which involve challenging but not undodgeable projectile weapons, ensuring not to repeat the same mistakes that have plagued the series in the past? That's my vision of an ideal Twisted Metal in a single (albeit run-on) sentence. I guess you wouldn't even want a Twisted Metal done properly, in that case.

Malefactor wrote on 02/08/17 at 22:56:00:
You have never brought up ONE point that we didn't tear to pieces.  As I've looked at your replies over the years I've realized it's probably because you're just too dumb to even understand what is being said.

I've been called dumb by the great Malefactor! Oh no, what a crushing blow. He said I'm dumb, and instantly my argument is invalid!

I made a few incorrect statements before, but in recent threads you have never torn to pieces a single point, because you have barely even brought up a single point. The simple fact is, for years now you have entirely ignored the content of my posts. This thread is no different. All you do is simply discredit me without addressing anything I say. Aside from calling me clueless, the single thing you attempted to refute and correct me on, you got wrong. No opinion involved, it's an objective fact that there is RNG health in TMBO and you responded as though there wasn't.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #36 - 02/09/17 at 00:02:03
 
Oh, now you're just being whiney in a high school way. It takes a few seconds to post this stuff.  Big fat deal.  Any of our moms could argue we're losers for posting here for any reason.

I'd give your posts a bit more attention if I thought you'd discuss it rationally and refrain from pages of straying rants, OR if you gave a new argument we hadn't already shot down.

Think about this. I've played with over 100 people regularly on TMBO and TM2:PC.  Hardcore players I spent hours with and knew by name.

Every single one of them abandoned TM:2012 out of mass disappointment.  Right down to the guy who started TMA.

That means something very significant, even if you don't want it to.                           
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #37 - 02/09/17 at 01:30:08
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/09/17 at 00:02:03:
I'd give your posts a bit more attention if I thought you'd discuss it rationally and refrain from pages of straying rants, OR if you gave a new argument we hadn't already shot down.

In the first post you called OP's assertion a joke, and then call Deadite a moron without having prior history with either of them. How is that prompting a rational discussion? And again, you don't even respond to my posts, so how can you claim you've shut them down? If they're that easy to shut down, you could have done it with half the effort it's taken to continually avoid responding to what I've posted.

Malefactor wrote on 02/09/17 at 00:02:03:
Every single one of them abandoned TM:2012 out of mass disappointment.  Right down to the guy who started TMA.

Mort's the pillar of the community and the person of over a hundred people you would choose to represent you, eh? I suppose in that case you guys enjoyed spamming Juggernaut's turret, spamming Vermin's undodgeable alt special, and flying with Sweet Bot? Yeah, you would say those videos are him just fucking around and not intended to be entertaining displays of skill... but why did he dedicate entire series of montages to the stuff TMA as a whole supposedly frowns upon? For that matter, link me a single match out of the hundreds upon hundreds of uploads on his channel played in a competitive unranked lobby. You'll find none, because all he played for ranked for years upon years after logging thousands of hours, way more than I've spent even after he's been away for quite a while. Is this TMA's standard?

For the record, I have nothing against Mort personally and he has always been friendly with me. It was simply frustrating that he would never play unranked. I had him on my friend's list for the longest time and he'd be online while we were playing in unranked, but he'd be in ranked lobbies instead. It's not like he just lacked a competitive drive and wasn't part of the clan scene, but he consciously avoided playing TM in a skillful manner and was unrepentant about playing in manners for the TM 2012 and TMA communities would frown upon. It's just laughable that you choose him as your gold standard. Bless his heart, the last few months he was around he would join our lobbies from time to time. We usually had to stack his team because was weak from being so used to just playing ranked, but at least he made an effort. He even tried to pull Mosh into here and there games, but most of the time when Mosh did come did he would purposefully choose Jugg, Talon, etc. mid-match, which he did in the majority of ranked games as well. Again, another proud TMA representative.

Don't construe things to even think I have anything against TMA as a whole. I'm well aware the decent and rational folks simply don't come around here or bother chipping in to these kinds of threads due to the endless negativity. While I'm sure that a very large portion of them have a negative opinion of TM 2012, extremely few would represent your views that they wouldn't want to see a new entry in the series. As I've said, you're the vocal minority, and because you're the person who is the most aggressive and the most reactionary, you've become the face of TMA in its current state. It's quite a shame. Anyhow, I know there's some great personalities that do play TMBO still and don't appear on the public forums, so even if opinions may differ, I'm at looking forward to playing with folks who still take pride in the series and don't surround themselves in negativity.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #38 - 02/09/17 at 01:47:39
 
You're trashing Mort now?  Besides that, did you miss the part where he's one of over a hundred?

I don't get you.  You need to get to a point where you at least accept when you've been given powerful evidence against your case.  Unless you do that you will always come accross as an apologist.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #39 - 02/09/17 at 22:47:35
 
Muddeh wrote on 02/08/17 at 10:15:04:
How typical of you. All words, no action. Very ironic considering you're supposedly "The Truth" and multiple times you have barked claims that it would take little effort to beat a TM 2012 player at their own game, but never have any intention of ever backing up such grandiose claims. Perhaps you should change your username to "My Opinion". Or perhaps for you to perceive something as the truth, it doesn't require proof or merit and simply has to align with your worldview.


I'll gladly be all words and no action. I'll speak the truth about it whether you want to accept it or not. No one is going to torture their self just to prove it to you. Especially when YOU are the one whos first real online TM experience is TM2012. If you played TM2PC or TMBO prior to TM2012, your posts about this wouldn't exist.

I'm curious though, how does one define a "pro" in TM2012? What do you look for and say "that guy is a pro"? What is it that takes a long time to master? What is it that you don't think one of us would be able to do? What would you accept for "beating a 2012 player"? I assume someone has to be equal to the worst pro in the room/game? Just so we are clear, I'm not saying one of us could return and win every game by large margins raping every pro. The depth for that doesn't exist like we always have said because the actual combat was butchered. We are saying we can be playing competitively in a short time. Much shorter compared to a previous TM like TMBO.


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A Few Afterthoughts
Reply #40 - 02/10/17 at 00:14:41
 
I remember the first few (2.5 years of TMBO) we all obsessed over what was fair, what wasn't.  The battles went on and on and on. 

Then at some point we all decided we don't give a shit anymore. We all had fun and "played to win."  It was such a deep game that countless strategies evolved.  Things we never would have thought of came out of having to face a "cheap" tactic.

I can fully believe that TM:2012 is such a shallow frag fest that there really aren't any counters to certain strategies and it all becomes just a frustrating pile of crap when certain things are done. 

Nevertheless, you need to know that the only thing I found disgusting about your post on Mort and Mosh was your post on Mort and Mosh.  I had no problem with what you attacked them for.  They only wanted to play ranked?  That hardly bothers me, the damn unranked settings sucked so bad (weaker than TMHO's settings - a game that came out in 2005 - and weaker than TMBO - A GAME THAT CAME OUT IN FREAKING 2002!) they probably did that out of sheer frustration.  They liked using Sweetbot and Talon?  Whatever . . . I hated Talon but the damn vehicle is in the fucking game.  That's a reason to hate the game, not condemn Mort and Mosh.

So we're on completely different wavelengths here.  Finally, if you read my posts you'd know that it's not that I don't want ANOTHER TWISTED METAL, it's that I don't want another Twisted Metal that sucks real bad.  So far the series is at less than 50% stellar titles. 

A good example is the Silent Hill series.  It should have been put out of its misery back in 2003.  It was AMAZING . . . Then it wasn't.  It looked like PT might resurrect it from the dead . . . And then OMFG what a nightmare that followed.  Only crazy people can dream up this stuff - and it actually happened! I'd rather it have not continued to wallow in its own piss.  That's not negativity, that's seeing someone you love becoming a drunken bastard and your heart cries out for them just stop already.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #41 - 02/10/17 at 05:14:05
 
This potato looks like a tomato.

I want it to be a tomato.

It doesn't taste like a Tomato.

Maybe I should go buy a fucking Tomato.

You get me?
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #42 - 02/10/17 at 06:18:59
 
†Adonael wrote on 02/10/17 at 05:14:05:
This potato looks like a tomato.

I want it to be a tomato.

It doesn't taste like a Tomato.

Maybe I should go buy a fucking Tomato.

You get me?


I get what you're saying, and if I could walk into a store and buy a fresh tomato, I'd think you have a point.

However, I can't do that.

So no, I think your point is kind of irrelevant.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #43 - 02/10/17 at 06:29:57
 
Quit comparing two things that are two different things and never meant to be the same, you dense buffoon.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #44 - 02/10/17 at 07:02:43
 
†Adonael wrote on 02/10/17 at 06:29:57:
Quit comparing two things that are two different things and never meant to be the same, you dense buffoon.


Nothing you're saying makes sense.  I can call you a name too.  You're a dumb jackass.
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