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TM2012 needs to slow down! (Read 9969 times)
HockeyGuy0k
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TM2012 needs to slow down!
02/02/17 at 04:28:46
 
I bought the game again after selling my original copy about a month into owning it in 2012 because I was so disappointed in the game. I wanted to give the game another chance now that I haven't played it for a few years to see if I had a different opinion on the game. I am actually pleasantly surprised in a lot of ways and still are upset at a few things.

First THE BAD and the main reason for my post ---

- This game is just way to fast paced, fast speedy cars feel so unbelievably fast that they are impossible to control. Pretty much every good car in my opinion is of the medium speed or slow speed variety. if they slowed down the game for all cars to say 75% of current speed I feel it would benefit the game more than any other single move possibly could.

--- The cars in general seem like they kind of all blend together, with the lack of unique characters for each individual car and extremely similar specials for the majority of cars no car really jumps out to me (usually every TM game I fall in love with a car and exclusively play that car).

--- The decision to have Talon in the game still saddens my heart for this game

--- A lot of the maps feel small (I think the cars being so fast really adds to this issue)

THE GOOD!!!! ---

--- The gameplay is fun and extremely addicting! The weapons feel tight and I like the idea of sidearms (although some balancing here is obviously needed)

--- The competition is fierce and if you are not on your game it is easy to lose to the game (although I wish the AI would fight eachother as well)

--- Good music

--- A variety of different maps which I like, each map feels unique and has it's own personality


Anyways those are my thoughts, just wanted to say if they tweaked a few things in the game I believe it could make for a much more enjoyable game, although  I do appreciate the game for what it is (even if I can't play 2 or 3 cars because they are much to fast)
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HockeyGuy0k
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #1 - 02/02/17 at 22:06:13
 
Just played it again and have a few more notes.

I wish that the enemies/allies names were not such a bright green/red and not so big so that I could actually see the level better. I also wish the enemies/allies health bar was more prominent so I could see better when enemies are low on health.

Just played Juggernaut for the first time and have no idea who thought that this could possibly be a good idea for this game. He is so bland to play and slow and I found myself getting stuck with him numerous times.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #2 - 02/03/17 at 08:52:34
 
Not to be an ass but the "negatives" you listed for the game are pretty weak, the size of the levels is related to the ammount of detail put in them (which is just perfect) and the speed of the fast cars is just fine. Can take a bit of time to get used to it though.

I'm indifferent to Talon being in the game. I do agree with Juggernaut though, vehicle is cumbersome and extremely unwieldly, gets stuck easily and is just Darkside with a  fucking trailer. Not the most original vehicle ever.

The faction shit is a con but is not enough to ruin the game for me. I remember first time i've played the game i disliked the stats for some of the vehicles, like c'mon, Crimson Fury and Roadkill needed more armor.

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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #3 - 02/03/17 at 13:19:35
 
TM 2012 the fastest-paced game in the series, for sure. That's definitely not a downside in my eyes though. It does dramatically increase the learning curve for playing the lightweights and make the mid-heavies seem all the more appealing with their straightforward primary specials. But just like previous TM games, skill drastically supersedes vehicle choice. You won't be able to play at the same level as pros by choosing a certain vehicle, nor will a certain vehicle drastically handicap you if you're capable of playing with it.

Even though Crimson Fury is largely considered the weakest vehicle in TDM largely due to having one of the most ineffective specials in the game, the best players can absolutely destroy heavies with it. Nevermind the fact that some weapons in the game are undodgeable, because a skilled CF will make it an extreme challenge to even get a reticle lock on. The way that competitive TDM is structured also really heightens the pace of game, which makes it all seem that much faster.

Talon should have never been in the game, if just because it slows down that fast pace. It's an extremely defensive vehicle by nature. It survives by being able to position itself out of range of attacks and only needs to expose itself to enemies that don't have the potential to fight back, be it a lack of health, energy or inventory. It's a bitch way to play an TM game, which is why it's never used competitively. Jugg is also a letdown because it relies on gimmicks like absorb shield killstreaks and the immensely overpowered turret, which is what it's also outlawed from skillful play.
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HockeyGuy0k
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #4 - 02/05/17 at 16:40:17
 
A few other notes while I am thinking about this game: does anyone else find the maps extremely depressing? It seems like every maps primary colors are brown, dark brown, light brown, grey and black. I think the happiest map in the game is Sunsprings which is basically a hazy yellow. Would it kill Jaffe to have a map or two that is in a place with lush grass and blue skies?

I also wish it was easier to tell what is destructible and what is not destructible when driving around in the environment.

The game also relies way to much on special weapons and ramming damage. A good game should have you learn to master all weapons in the game but weapons are often so scarce you have to rely simply on ramming damage/special weapons which recharge to fast.

My last complaint is that turbo boost is way to abundant. Turbo should have to be thought about before using due to scarcity and when to best use it due to not having enough, as it is I can turbo for over a minute straight with no downside whatsoever, in the majority of games I have actually played seriously I just used the turbo constantly unless there was an area I was trying to navigate more carefully.

@The Deadite --- I agree that the levels are extremely detailed but I still find a lot of them small (not in size but in feel). What I mean by this is that the cars are so ridiculously fast it makes the maps feel a lot smaller than they actually are, it's also extremely difficult to get to many areas because the cars are so fast and difficult to handle. My main knock on Talon being in the game is that it is a car combat game with a helicopter in it. He changes every map's layout and completely changes the way the game is played for vehicles. I personally prefer doing away with the lock on system but it would be impossible to not have a lock on system due to talon being in the game.

@Muddeh --- I think it being such a fast paced game is a downside. A good game gives the player enough time that they can make a fast decisions and be rewarded or punished based upon their decisions, this game happens so fast that it just feels like a big clusterf*ck of missles and machine guns. Try doing the Diablo pass race with Mr Grimm and you will know exactly what I mean, it doesn't feel like you as a player have much of an outcome on good or bad things happening because it all happens so fast and you constantly feel disoriented. I would disagree with your skill/vehicle choice statement. I find 5 of the cars absolutely unplayable (crimson fury, mr grimm, death warrant, juggernaught, kamikazee) on the majority of maps.I'm sure the best players in the world can play any one of those cars just fine but when the average player finds half of the cars in the game unplayable you have a problem.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #5 - 02/05/17 at 19:34:55
 
The pro players have no problem with the fast pace of the game. You just need to get better. It's the only solution or give up on the game.
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HockeyGuy0k
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #6 - 02/05/17 at 21:00:25
 
Luis wrote on 02/05/17 at 19:34:55:
The pro players have no problem with the fast pace of the game. You just need to get better. It's the only solution or give up on the game.


Let me put it this way, I have played every other Twisted Metal game ever made and I have never had an issue with handling any one vehicle. In this game I can't handle 5 of the vehicles.

I know I probably sound really whiny about the game and all but it's because I just know it could have been so good and I love the series so much. I just feel like it had so much potential and I would like to identify the reasons that the game missed the mark in my opinion so that hopefully future games avoid the same mistakes.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #7 - 02/05/17 at 21:51:59
 
HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
I think it being such a fast paced game is a downside. A good game gives the player enough time that they can make a fast decisions and be rewarded or punished based upon their decisions, this game happens so fast that it just feels like a big clusterf*ck of missles and machine guns.


Just so you know, you are 100% spot on with this. It is one of the main reasons almost everyone that played TM2PC/TMBO despised TMX and why there is such little activity on TMA.

If you are looking for a game where you need to make fast decisions and be rewarded or punished based upon the decisions with no clusterfuck of missles and machine guns then TMBO is your only TM option at this point in time.

As an example in TMBO weapons don't move at the speed of light. There is also audio depth where you'll hear a weapon being fired and it traveling to you. This is where you make decisions to maneuver your car in a way to dodge it or get hit by it. This then leads to people having to get better and take good shots or setting up combos to make it harder to dodge.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #8 - 02/06/17 at 00:50:40
 
HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
A few other notes while I am thinking about this game: does anyone else find the maps extremely depressing? It seems like every maps primary colors are brown, dark brown, light brown, grey and black. I think the happiest map in the game is Sunsprings which is basically a hazy yellow. Would it kill Jaffe to have a map or two that is in a place with lush grass and blue skies? 

Personally, i think the level design is on point including the color palette. The art direction is it's own beast,  stuck between Black and TM2, not too dark or too colorful. Metro Square and Diablo Pass are fairly colorful though.

HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
The game also relies way to much on special weapons and ramming damage. A good game should have you learn to master all weapons in the game but weapons are often so scarce you have to rely simply on ramming damage/special weapons which recharge to fast.

Not really, some vehicles are not made for ramming , weapon pick ups are as abundant as they always were... don't really want to sound like a elitist fanboy but...."git gud"
Find a vehicle that suits your playstyle and master that shit.

HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
... but when the average player finds half of the cars in the game unplayable you have a problem.

I kinda dig the game being so unforgiving, can take a bit of time to fully master but the controls are so smooth is fun to try. Not gonna pretend i know how tow drive every vehicle but Twisted Metal was never a casual friendly IP, it was always a hair pulling series.
I find this game more forgiving that Black, he difficulty on that game  doesn't fare that well and the controls are a bit too muddy to compensate for it IMO.

And i bet this forum is pretty dead because Sony did an awful job in the publicity department of TMX, not because old time fans despised the game. They failed attracting newcomers and reigniting interest on the series from the public.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #9 - 02/06/17 at 01:24:17
 
HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
A few other notes while I am thinking about this game: does anyone else find the maps extremely depressing?

I presume you would share the same criticism towards TMB, if not to a greater extent. I can't say I would take issue with a bit more creativity with the themes of the maps seeing that Diesel and Watkyn's feel relatively similar, but it's a pretty minimal thing to knock the game on, plus Thrills & Spills is definitely a vibrant map. I wouldn't expect a modern Twisted Metal game to be all sunshine and rainbows, after all.

HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
The game also relies way to much on special weapons and ramming damage. A good game should have you learn to master all weapons in the game but weapons are often so scarce you have to rely simply on ramming damage/special weapons which recharge to fast.

I gotta disagree with you there. I really enjoy the fact that ramming has such an impact, à la TM2. If you get rammed by an ice cream truck while driving a motorcycle, it sure as hell should hurt. It makes the game less forgiving but adds a ton of depth to close quarters combat and combos, especially with the turbo dash existing in this game. And honestly, there isn't a Twisted Metal game where the specials aren't the most defining element to each vehicle. You need to be aware of each vehicle and their specials when both playing as and fighting against them, and they should be powerful. If the specials aren't all that powerful, it dilutes the variation across the vehicle roster significantly.

As well, if you make use of turbo dash (which you should in the majority of vehicles) you'll burn through turbo way faster, and it's a much more valuable resource on the smaller maps. I also think the density of weapons is fine, and if you're finding yourself only using your special and not picking up other weapons, you should either take note of the weapon layout or take more time to run weapons routes instead of looking for combat. Map control is a massive part of any TM game, especially online. I'd also argue there's way more weapons out in the open in TM 2012 than in any previous Twisted Metal. If you play a map like Moscow from TM2 or Drive-In Movie from TMB you'll definitely realize how limited the critical resources/weapons are in the smaller maps of those games.

HockeyGuy0k wrote on 02/05/17 at 16:40:17:
@Muddeh --- I think it being such a fast paced game is a downside. A good game gives the player enough time that they can make a fast decisions and be rewarded or punished based upon their decisions, this game happens so fast that it just feels like a big clusterf*ck of missles and machine guns. Try doing the Diablo pass race with Mr Grimm and you will know exactly what I mean, it doesn't feel like you as a player have much of an outcome on good or bad things happening because it all happens so fast and you constantly feel disoriented. I would disagree with your skill/vehicle choice statement. I find 5 of the cars absolutely unplayable (crimson fury, mr grimm, death warrant, juggernaught, kamikazee) on the majority of maps.I'm sure the best players in the world can play any one of those cars just fine but when the average player finds half of the cars in the game unplayable you have a problem.

I'm not sure if you're referring to the online at all or just the single player, but it sounds to me simply like you haven't played enough to recognize what you're being hit with and how opponents are besting you. I can see your perspective though because the learning curve is steep. I'm a bit biased since I played since the beta when everyone playing online had also been fresh to the game, and these days the learning curve is much steeper for those jumping into the online. I had also played a few weeks purely online before tackling the single player, so I may not have struggled with the story the same way you might have. But just because you find the game difficult having just played for a short time, that doesn't mean it should be stripped down.

Regarding the vehicles, I can understand your frustration having limited playtime and choosing the vehicles that require more driving skill, but your perception of what's supposedly unplayable does not reflect the reality of the game's balance. Juggernaut is absurdly overpowered. Death Warrant is one of the stronger vehicles in the roster. Kamikaze and Reaper have their strengths much more invested in their specials, but are strong as well. The only vehicle that's undeniably weak is Crimson Fury, but it's still far from being outright unplayable. It's simply the most difficult and requires more driving skill and knowledge of the map layouts to be used effectively.

As for the speed of vehicles, I would much prefer a game with a steeper learning curve with faster lightweights that have more sensitive controls than one that has a cap on skill in exchange for more casual appeal. Twisted Metal has always been a complex series that requires use of the entire controller, and that's not going to change. The formula for a well-balanced vehicle combat game isn't that difficult, but devs constantly toss in gimmicks to make the game feel more casual that constantly messes that balance up.

Trying to appeal to casual gamers and failing to embrace the brilliant depth of the vehicle combat genre has consistently bogged the series down. The fact that ESP tried to balance out the challenge of driving with a number of easier weapons that are very difficult/impossible to dodge is what made the game so unfun to veterans of the series, such that it struggled to appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers at launch.

In previous TMs even if you're weren't aware you're being fired at, you'd still avoid a lot of the AI's attacks by pure fluke based on the angle you're driving at in contrast to the direction of their fire. The same also occurs in TM2012 with the weapons that are avoidable, but the number of undodgeable weapons upsets that and often make you feel helpless to their attacks. The auto-aim spam was especially an issue in the early months online where it was all you needed to play well since people hadn't developed their skills with manual and skill-based attacks to counter it at the time.

I wouldn't want to see the actual pace of the game slowed down though, because in this game driving matters more than in any other. The slower the game is, the more unbalanced it will be in the heavy vehicles' favour. If you removed even just a couple of the undodgeable weapons, I could guarantee you that the lightweights would be the dominant vehicles in TM 2012 for experienced players.

We should strive to achieve a balance where the heavies are the most friendly vehicles for newcomers of the game to play since they're slower and heavily armoured, but also allow players to find success with the "higher risk, higher reward" vehicles (i.e. lightweights) that may not be as suitable to play until you get some seat time, but are balanced nontheless. Making the game slower isn't the answer, but nerfing the speed and homing of weapons, plus allowing people to adjust the sensitivity of their steering input (for those who find the lightweights too hypersensitive) would go a long ways to making the chaos feel more controlled.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #10 - 02/07/17 at 03:12:09
 
Truth is correct that by and large the vast majority of TMA hated/hates this game and it probably killed the series for reasons too numerous to name.

However, calling it the fastest paced Twisted Metal is a bit of a joke.  The WEAPONS are the fastest in any Twisted Metal game.  The cars themselves are actually a bit slower.

Twisted Metal: Black's weapons are slower than TM:2012's but its cars are faster.  This is one of the reasons in TMB you have far more defensive options because your cars maneuverability is able to outmaneuver a weapon.

Pretty much every hardcore veteran of the series that experienced all online versions agreed with your assessment that this game is a bit of a clusterfuck with far less defensive depth than previous additions.  Muddeh is a hardcore fan of the new game, he adores what is there, and so he defends it tooth and nail, but as you listen to him you need to be aware that he never spent any time at all on the previous online versions.  I would have enjoyed this game too if I'd never played the previous versions AND if I was okay with a buggy as hell network shit fest.

However, the simple unavoidable truth is if you want a Twisted Metal with a wide range of defensive tactics this is not and never will be the one to choose. 

Finally, Sony did a terrific job marketing this game.  The original release had all sorts of people talking about it.  Unfortunately, you can spend millions to market a burned hamburger but if it's a carcinogenic waste it doesn't matter, you're wasting your money.  Over a year into the game's original release it was still buggy as hell.  Five months into its release it would take upwards of an hour for people to get in game rooms. 

Sony wisely realized that this game was ruining their reputation.  I can't fault them for bailing on it.  You are a moron if you do.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #11 - 02/07/17 at 05:36:44
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/07/17 at 03:12:09:
Finally, Sony did a terrific job marketing this game.  The original release had all sorts of people talking about it.  Unfortunately, you can spend millions to market a burned hamburger but if it's a carcinogenic waste it doesn't matter, you're wasting your money.  Over a year into the game's original release it was still buggy as hell.  Five months into its release it would take upwards of an hour for people to get in game rooms. 

Sony wisely realized that this game was ruining their reputation.  I can't fault them for bailing on it.  You are a moron if you do.

I can't even begin to process this post...
Terrific job marketing this game?
TM12 was ruining Sony's reputation?
You are a moron if you blame Sony for bailing on the game?

You gotta be baiting with those statements.

Sure the online portion is important and it was broken as fuck but it doesn't make up for the entirety of the experience, TM12 is far from being a perfect entry on the series but you exagerating it's flaws way too much.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #12 - 02/07/17 at 10:29:50
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/07/17 at 03:12:09:
However, calling it the fastest paced Twisted Metal is a bit of a joke.  The WEAPONS are the fastest in any Twisted Metal game.  The cars themselves are actually a bit slower.

I agree that the vehicles themselves aren't fundamentally faster, especially when you factor in not just top speed, but acceleration as well. In fact, the top speeds for the majority of the vehicles are remarkably similar, but their varying acceleration sets them apart. I could understand that because the lightweights' controls are so sensitive and the fact that they're much more prone to getting staggered and flipped around than in any previous game, it can make those vehicles feel much faster and more difficult to control for a novice player.

TM 2012 is the fastest-paced game in the series. At the absolute least, it's faster-paced than TMBO (which isn't a criticism, but merely an assertion) and there's a number of factors that make TM 2012 considerably more fast-paced. The most notable thing that speeds up the game is the fact that pickup respawns are set on a timer, rather than being RNG. It creates a turf war to control certain areas of map for access to the stronger pickups. The fact that health also regenerates on a three minute timer from when it is last picked up not only makes health viable in team games, but also forces more confrontations and for you to fight more often with less liberty to take time to stock your inventory with strong pickups without being pressured by opponents in the vicinity.

The density of pickups in the maps also increases the pace of the game because less time needs to be spent out of combat driving weapon routes, and less often are there stalemates because you and your opponent have run out of weapons. The faster regeneration rates of specials (at least in comparison to TMBO) also makes it so that your inventory is less often empty. The abundance of pickups doesn't diminish the fight for map control I mentioned earlier though. It's rarely difficult to load up with garbage weapons, but you need to fight to keep the stronger weapons with either staggering abilities or higher damage output in your team's possession, or else they'll be used against you. As well, there are additional methods to attack beyond use of just your standard inventory that aren't prevalent/existent in TMBO, such as ramming and absorption shield.

As well, the inclusion of perks such as killstreaks place a lot of stock in not just passively dealing what we call "spread damage" from a distance, but dealing "concentrated damage" in CQC and finishing kills. Killstreaks in of themselves allow players to engage other players more aggressively with the energy and turbo refills, as well as the duplicating inventory if you manage to get as high as four kills. It encourages a streaking player to play more aggressively to feed their streak and get the most out of the perks, and puts pressure on the opposing team to recognize that player is streaking and attempt to shut them down.

The mercy bonuses also make it that much more important to finish kills so that those opponents aren't able to hang back and wait for their teammates to take care of you (assuming they've managed to put a few dents in you as well), then regain health from your flaming driver. At the same time, you need to play smart and not be lured by a weaken player into a scenario where you're away from your team and outnumbered. This all stresses the importance of teamplay, synchronizing in efforts of map control and combat, and playing at such a pace that the other team doesn't get the upper hand, ensuring you keep in mind the underlying objectives beyond just murdering your opponents.

Malefactor wrote on 02/07/17 at 03:12:09:
Muddeh is a hardcore fan of the new game, he adores what is there, and so he defends it tooth and nail, but as you listen to him you need to be aware that he never spent any time at all on the previous online versions.  I would have enjoyed this game too if I'd never played the previous versions AND if I was okay with a buggy as hell network shit fest.

I consider myself less of a fan of TM 2012, and more a fan of the series in general. I refute the idea that I should be considered any less of a fan, or less relevant in the voice of the community because I didn't abandon the game in the early months. I'll be honest that I don't consider anybody on this forum besides Luis, and those who may be registered and play the game competitively but avoid the swamping negativity on TMA, to have a relevant opinion on TM 2012 in its current state. Yes, I haven't played a previous online TM within recent years, but neither have you played TM 2012 in recent years either.

Since the TMBO revival server went up, I hadn't felt compelled to play primarily because I haven't felt welcome in the community. I would want to be involved in things like the Skype calls while playing since the vocal element adds a lot to the game, especially with teamplay, but figured I'm likely an inside joke already for my opinions on TM 2012. Nonetheless, I've spent many dozens of hours watching Darkscorious' footage. I greatly appreciate TMBO, and believe I display that I am knowledgeable of the game (certainly do correct me and point out anything I've said of TMBO that has been inaccurate). I also do intend to join in playing TMBO soon.

Years have passed now, and my views of TM 2012 have matured. I always had a concept of what was balanced and what was cheap and believed it was a flawed game on many counts, but I didn't understand the extreme disdain from TMA towards it. I understand far better now what developed in the months leading up to, and the months after released that lead so many to abandon the game. I agree it was glitchy, unbalanced, autoaim broken horseshit. However, I'm still incredibly frustrated by the constant echo chamber of hatred towards the game, because I'm a fan who cares about the series. Nobody is willing to even attempt playing in current day where the vast majority of the former problems with the game have been smoothed over, and when played with the right settings it is a strong entry to the series in its own right.

It would be like a soccer analyst feeling just as qualified to also be a hockey analyst without having knowledge in the strategies, intricacies and recent history of the league, and only knowing the basic rules and framework... and then based on that knowledge, calling one the sport they specialize in superior to the other; it's an uninformed opinion, not a fact. The two games may have the objectives but are entirely different sports, just as previous online TMs are different than TM 2012. And perhaps most importantly, how TM 2012 is played now is far different than back in the day prior to patches/tweaking and before concrete rules for competitive play were put in place.

The Deadite wrote on 02/07/17 at 05:36:44:
You gotta be baiting with those statements.

He is baiting. Sadly, he's part of the fringe but vocal minority that hated the most recent titles to such an extent that he wouldn't support the development of a future Twisted Metal, and has stated it multiple times.

Malefactor wrote on 07/08/16 at 04:56:28:
Well, so the answer for me is since I probably WOULD NOT buy a Twisted Metal made by the "original" team as it is now defined, it would take something like another team and amazing reviews to make me buy it.

It's safe to say that this doesn't represent the majority opinion of both casual and hardcore fans of the series. We want a new Twisted Metal. We want it done right. While it's important to highlight the flaws of previous TM games, there's no use living in the past and entirely denying anything positive that came out of TM 2012. If its own community doesn't support the series. We need more fans to show their support, and for the Twisted Metal community to not be so underground. Although I'm not involved, I'm sure TMA mostly socializes through IMs rather than the forums these days much as the frequent players of TM 2012 do. I was a tad late to the party, but in recent years I've been doing my part to be involved in the public sphere, between posting videos and lurking around these parts. Harping on the faults and justifying Sony to distance itself from the brand will get us nowhere. It will only cause us to see the prospect of a new Twisted Metal or projects like MotorGun slip through our fingers.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #13 - 02/07/17 at 18:09:56
 
Perhaps it's baiting a bit, but more or less just not being diplomatic about it.  It's common fan base (of any game mind you) to blame the publisher as if in every scenario it's the publisher's fault.  Fact is sometimes it's the game's developer.  Sony made a business decision that made sense.  You shouldn't throw advertising money behind a broken product, and any game that struggles on such an epic level months out of the gate is clearly broken. It's not just that the network code was unworkable FOR A GAME THAT WAS MARKETED AS ONLINE FOCUS (which by default means I'm not exaggerating anything at all when I complain about its flaws) but there are numerous game breaking problems besides this.  You are able to ignore them only because you love the series so much.

Also, Muddeh, I'm not saying you're less of a fan, I'm just saying you're analysis is largely empty.  You rarely have any idea about what you're talking about.

Case in point.  In the above you point out that TM:2012's health and weapons were on a timer.

Same is true of TMBO.  So . . . I've pointed out on numerous occasions (and so has The Truth mind you) how this kind of thing, which you do on a regular basis, just makes you look clueless.  Then when people try to engage with you you ignore these moments of blatant logical problems where your inexperience is brought out and instead plaster yet more walls of text for us to deal with.

You've become a TM:2012 apologist on this board.  Clearly that's the role you want to be, so be it, but there's never any real substance to it.
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Re: TM2012 needs to slow down!
Reply #14 - 02/07/17 at 19:13:58
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/07/17 at 18:09:56:
...It's common fan base (of any game mind you) to blame the publisher as if in every scenario it's the publisher's fault.  Fact is sometimes it's the game's developer.  Sony made a business decision that made sense.  You shouldn't throw advertising money behind a broken product, and any game that struggles on such an epic level months out of the gate is clearly broken. It's not just that the network code was unworkable FOR A GAME THAT WAS MARKETED AS ONLINE FOCUS (which by default means I'm not exaggerating anything at all when I complain about its flaws) but there are numerous game breaking problems besides this....
Hey anyone remembers when the games most important part was the SP portion?
I do, that was cool.

And yes you are blowing this out of proportion to accommodate your self imposed facts (TM12 being marketed as an online focus game), i've played the shit out of this game and found very few glitches, less alone game breaking ones... Nevermind i'm not putting the online and singleplayer on the same bag.

i can understand people don't liking the game but calling it a cancerous piece of shit is just too much, game negatives don't surpass it's pros by that much of a margin.
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