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Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE) (Read 5219 times)
Varia31
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Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
05/19/16 at 23:09:04
 
Hey everyone! ScrewAttack just been confirmed that our favorite psychopathic killer clown will be taking on Batman's own Joker in Death Battle! https://twitter.com/ScrewAttack/status/733392057989926912

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Considering all Needles Kane has done, I think he has a shot at winning this, but something tells me it'll go to Joker because of how much stuff he has accomplished over the course of the comic books. Still, I hope Needles can pull it off. He is not only very strong and tough, but he's also smarter than some give him credit for considering he tricks Calypso in Head-On, and seems to be the engineer of the Sweet Bot in TMX. Those are just my thoughts though.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #1 - 05/19/16 at 23:34:48
 
Well boys and girls, I killed the Joker like anyone else I have killed... It wasn't easy... But it was a satisfying finish to have his head roll on the floor...
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #2 - 05/20/16 at 02:34:14
 
SweetTooth/Needles Kane was a good fighter in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale so if that counts I think he could beat the Joker in a one-on-one fight. Joker has partial metahuman abilities in many interpretations and Sweet Tooth has partial supernatural abilities in many interpretations so it's kind of balanced. Joker has a gang, & so did SweetTooth in TMX. Both are serial killers dressed like clowns with impressive body counts. Both use a variety of weapons although Joker is more thematic and inventive in his approach.
I think in a vehicular contest SweetTooth has the edge even if Joker had the help of his gang. Then again Joker is the cheating and manipulative type, and also more intelligent than SweetTooth. SweetTooth's character flaw has always been his flawed intelligence (wishing for stupid things/making irrational decisions). 
Joker would probably win 7 out of 10 times, but SweetTooth would put up a good fight.
It'd be interesting to hear Joker rant about SweetTooth being "another Joker clone" lol.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #3 - 05/20/16 at 07:03:33
 
Ah, but Sweet Tooth does have some good smarts himself! Not just anyone has outwitted Calypso before, but he has. I think it's also implied that he engineered the Sweet Bot in TMX, and you can see him clearly working on his vehicle in Head-On, so he certainly seems to know what he's doing mechanically.
Plus, TMB says that Sweet Tooth "meticulously" hunted down some of his victims, which means he carefully planned them out. So he's smarter than most seem to realize, but I won't argue that Joker is overall the smarter of the two.

But physically, I think Sweet Tooth can take him. Really, this fight has many different ways it could play out. Joker could take Sweet Tooth down with his various toys, or Sweet Tooth could get a hold of Joker and then proceed to gut him. Having access to his vehicle would be overkill. Although, apparently there was a preview of the Death Battle that has since been taken down, which I hear involved Joker shooting at Sweet Tooth's tires. So I guess he's gonna disable the truck somehow.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #4 - 05/20/16 at 10:53:00
 
Varia31 wrote on 05/20/16 at 07:03:33:
Ah, but Sweet Tooth does have some good smarts himself! Not just anyone has outwitted Calypso before, but he has. I think it's also implied that he engineered the Sweet Bot in TMX, and you can see him clearly working on his vehicle in Head-On, so he certainly seems to know what he's doing mechanically.
Plus, TMB says that Sweet Tooth "meticulously" hunted down some of his victims, which means he carefully planned them out. So he's smarter than most seem to realize, but I won't argue that Joker is overall the smarter of the two.

But physically, I think Sweet Tooth can take him. Really, this fight has many different ways it could play out. Joker could take Sweet Tooth down with his various toys, or Sweet Tooth could get a hold of Joker and then proceed to gut him. Having access to his vehicle would be overkill. Although, apparently there was a preview of the Death Battle that has since been taken down, which I hear involved Joker shooting at Sweet Tooth's tires. So I guess he's gonna disable the truck somehow.


You make good points but I didn't mean to say Needles Kane was dumb but that his intelligence is flawed (due to his insanity).
He may have been among the few that have screwed over Calypso & the only driver to take over the contest (in 2 games) but while he succeeds to fool Calypso he puts himself in a position of responsibility - since running the contest is a job, and a job with risks. Head-On doesn't explore the possibilities with all that but TM4 does, and while not canon, it does show the likely scenarios of SweetTooth running the contest, such as having Calypso try to win back the contest, or granting a wish that leads to his own demise (like The Jones' ending where SweetTooth commits murder-suicide). Knowing that, I think it's a dumb move for him to usurp Calypso because it doesn't seem all that beneficial to him in the long term. TM:Black's SweetTooth was a bit more realistic, after he kills Calypso he goes back to his normal routine because he didn't actually care about the twisted metal contest... (unlike the ridiculous tm4 universe where he literally wished to be the TM mascot at one point in time lol).
I think in Small Brawl the young SweetTooth showed some smarts in pretending to wish for ice cream but stealing the ice cream truck instead, & in TM1 despite being a nutcase Needles did manage to escape the mental hospital on his own, just like the Joker does repeatedly.
Come to think of it though, Joker's intelligence is very flawed too. I could see him shooting SweetTooth's tires out, then maybe getting cocky and curious & going to check what SweetTooth looks like under his mask, only for ST to revive and scoop out one of Joker's eyes with an ice cream scooper lol... I could see it being a pretty cool fight.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #5 - 05/20/16 at 11:01:59
 
Oh yeah, didn't think you were saying he's dumb. Some people seem to think he's just a muscle-head though. It's important to acknowledge the times he has shown to be quite crafty is all. You are right though, the irrational thinking is often just a package deal with being a psychopathic killer. And yeah, same thing with Joker. As smart as he is, he makes dumb errors sometimes, like not knowing when to just end the fight, which leads to him losing in the long run.

I do agree that TM Black's Sweet Tooth is the best! I love how he treats Twisted Metal as just some silly little game for his amusement. I love the dark intelligence feeling I get from him in TM Black, and the ferocity of TMX's Sweet Tooth. Also an interesting thing to consider is that, if we take PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale seriously, Needles can channel his curse into hellfire breath, and even more than that, he can go toe-to-toe with freakin' Kratos!

Anyways, really looking forward to the fight. I can't say I've really felt hyped over a Death Battle before like I am for this one!

EDIT
Well, here are the what the voices sound like!
https://twitter.com/ScrewAttackBen/status/733728524696182784
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« Last Edit: 05/20/16 at 23:30:53 by Varia31 »  

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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #6 - 05/21/16 at 00:16:45
 
Varia31 wrote on 05/20/16 at 11:01:59:
Also an interesting thing to consider is that, if we take PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale seriously, Needles can channel his curse into hellfire breath, and even more than that, he can go toe-to-toe with freakin' Kratos!

Anyways, really looking forward to the fight. I can't say I've really felt hyped over a Death Battle before like I am for this one!

EDIT
Well, here are the what the voices sound like!
https://twitter.com/ScrewAttackBen/status/733728524696182784


Yeah I really thought it was cool that ST could breathe out fire in PSABR. I'd count the ability. It's a good parallel attack for Joker's Acid Flower attack.

I dig the voices for both of them, so I'm looking forward to this fight...

The clown who can kill Batman
Vs.
The clown who can kill Kratos! 
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #7 - 05/21/16 at 22:54:06
 
A man who is intelligent, on par with that  of batman. Who is pure insanity and only desire is chaos.

Vs

The mans bestial urge to murder. Anger and hatred. All the homicidal emotions in man.

It'll be interesting. That's for sure.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #8 - 06/09/16 at 10:03:52
 
The fight's up!



Overall a pretty fun fight, and a bit funny, too. I just wish it was longer! That said, I do have some gripes about it. So...

SPOILERS AHEAD










I'm disappointed that they completely left out that Needles has outsmarted Calypso before, and that Twisted Metal itself takes strategy. The way Joker convinces Needles to leave the Sweet Bot is... okay, but I doubt Needles would have ever hesitated to gut Joker on the spot after he picked him up. He would never care enough to listen to his victims. They basically made Needles sound like nothing more than a brute who never thinks despite the games saying differently, and Joker wins because he's Joker. That's more or less how their explanation sounded to me at the end.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #9 - 06/09/16 at 12:34:28
 
Varia31 wrote on 06/09/16 at 10:03:52:
SPOILERS AHEAD










I'm disappointed that they completely left out that Needles has outsmarted Calypso before, and that Twisted Metal itself takes strategy. The way Joker convinces Needles to leave the Sweet Bot is... okay, but I doubt Needles would have ever hesitated to gut Joker on the spot after he picked him up. He would never care enough to listen to his victims. They basically made Needles sound like nothing more than a brute who never thinks despite the games saying differently, and Joker wins because he's Joker. That's more or less how their explanation sounded to me at the end.


I had a feeling they would make Joker out to be smarter & more manipulative, and Sweet Tooth's intelligence would be flawed and he'd make an irrational decision like he does in the fight. I told you so.

But the Sweet Tooth we see in the fight is really just the TMX & PS All Stars version (except no fire breathing unfortunately). This is not the expert serial killer of TMB. The video does show the stat about Calypso being killed twice by Sweet Tooth in the series, but it also mentions how Calypso killed him in TMX also, so I guess that sort of cancelled out that factor in battle. I do like how the video shows footage from the Sweet Tooth TMB webisode, but It's technically not canon, so I think the battle borrows from that story where Sweet Tooth went for a sadistic up-close kill too much in the Joker battle. He would have preferred to kill Joker in a vehicle, and he certainly had the opportunity, but it figures Joker would win because he is more popular and has more history but I do have some problems with the Joker story...

The Jokermobile tank in the video DOES NOT ACTUALLY exist. In Arkham Knight, that Jokermobile exists only in Batman's mind during an intense hallucination. That Jokermobile is really an advanced Batmobile/Bat-Tank that Joker would not have been able to own because he is not someone with the money and resources Bruce Wayne/Batman has.
There was even a Batman cartoon about how broke Joker got at one point ("Joker's Millions"). I think the video could have went more into Joker's weaknesses. He wasn't much of a fighter at all in Tim Burton's Batman for example, and didn't even survive the film. He may have a high endurance for pain - but so do many of Batman villains. I've seen Riddler survive getting shot up by Bane's gang in an old comic, for instance. In Joker's case it may actually be the effects of the chemicals that made him who he is, but many times it's just a common practice in comics for villains to survive what ought to be fatal consequences. The same technically exists in Twisted Metal too. Sweet Tooth has fire on his head - but he is not screaming in pain all the time from it. These are fictional characters, so why not have them as tolerant to pain as possible? So it's a bit odd to have that as a Joker advantage but not a Sweet Tooth advantage in the battle. Why does acid spray hurt Sweet Tooth so much if he is wearing a mask for instance?
Death Battles will always favor the more popular character but realistically, based off the stats given and the premise of this battle Sweet Tooth probably should have won this one, but I'm not upset, because I expected that, and found the video pretty enjoyable. It gets "What if SweetTooth battled the Batmobile?" totally right - and it portrays Joker's chaotic and manipulative side nicely, but at the expense of Sweet Tooth.
I hadn't considered Joker toxin before either, but I kind of think Sweet Tooth being under a demonic influence could counter some of its effects, but guess not.
At least there's technically a wild card here though... Charlie Kane will grow up to take the mantle of Sweet Tooth to avenge his father - by killing the Joker! lol
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #10 - 06/09/16 at 19:13:41
 
Sweet Tooth killing Calypso isn't the point. What I'm saying is that they left out addressing his intelligent side altogether. The fact that he has tricked another master manipulator like Calypso. But you're right, they seemed to stick to the TMX version the most, which is more brutal, but also more reckless. I prefer his Black incarnation the most, because he's not only brutal, but you can see that he's also smart in a sinister, dark way.

They didn't seem to delve into Joker's weaknesses much other than saying that he can die like his victims, just that he has a ridiculous pain tolerance. For instance, he has been played by Batman (of course), and many others before. He is not above losing his cool if things aren't going his way, either. They focused mainly on his good points rather than how many times he has been taken down. Like Deadpool vs Deathstroke, Joker was pretty much the highlight of the fight. As for Sweet Tooth, he does love to kill up close, but otherwise I don't think he really cares how you die. He just wants you dead. In fact he seems to like experimenting with different ways to kill.

I could go on and on. But yeah, it was a fun fight. I'm a little disappointed there was no legitimate hand-to-hand fight, and the fight was honestly a bit short. Oh well. And yeah, that Jokermobile isn't even real. But hey, it's ScrewAttack. They tend to improvise a lot.

Man, we really need a solo Sweet Tooth game like David Jaffe has entertained the idea of doing before. I want to see more of what he can do outside of his truck, kinda like what we were going to get in Harbor City.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #11 - 06/09/16 at 22:43:29
 
Yep, TMBs Tooth is the mightiest and probably smartest Tooth of them all, although from a director's standpoint one could argue ST killing Calypso there was more to highlight SweetTooth's psychotic side. In TM HeadOn, that ending where ST kills Calypso does focus more on ST's cleverness, but up until then, that was sort of a characteristic not applied enough to the character. TM1/2's portrayals focus more on the character being crazy more than being clever. 989 went with the same idea for the character but went with a bad kind of crazy, to the point the character was a silly joke, and thus the need for TMB's darker Sweet Tooth where he had a body count of about a thousand. Head-On and TM Small Brawl made the character more clever though, I felt. He outwits Calypso in both those games in a way that the Joker would be proud of.
So as cool as the idea of a solo Sweet Tooth game is I wouldn't really want Jaffe's involvement in the story despite ST being his character. I think his version of Sweet Tooth has become too one-dimensional over time and there needs to be a change. The current perception of Sweet Tooth is that he is a mass murdering psycho of limited intelligence. Despite being a fighter in PS All Stars, he is not really seen as a legit hand to hand fighter. Even in PS All Stars there is no way for him to throw a punch because he relies mostly on weapons. He is able to do low kicks in the game, which he does do in the Joker battle, but I agree he should be able to do more. If he has a body count of a thousand in TMB's story without even needing his vehicle - he should be experienced in physical confrontations. (yet flash forward to TMX, ST loses an eye to a little girl lol).
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Varia31
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #12 - 06/10/16 at 10:09:51
 
I just love TMB's Sweet Tooth. It's funny how he is more of a raging monster now, yet it TMB he was calm and collected, being perhaps the most cool-headed version of him... uh, so to speak. Roll Eyes
I also liked his personality. He had some good characterization. For as sadistic as he was, he had this little sense of humor that you can't help but laugh at a bit. I mean, really, he wanted to kill Calypso because he thought his name was stupid. lol

You know what's funny about how Sweet Tooth plays in PlayStation All-Stars? Despite being a supposed heavy-hitter character, the key to victory is actually using mind games to manipulate your opponent so that you can get your kills in. Hint hint, wink wink. Cheesy
It's almost like controlled chaos, much like how you could describe Twisted Metal itself.

Well, Sophie stabbing him in the eye is forgivable in my book. He was an amateur at the time. "I don't blame myself... they were my first murders." -Tooth
And I dunno. If Jaffe went back to more of how Sweet Tooth was in TMB, we would probably have a more likeable character. I mean, I like the TMX version too (mostly for his showings of physical power, having a whole army of followers, and apparently being the engineer of his Sweet Bot), but the TMB is simply the best. The question is, what kind of game would it be? I think I'll make a thread for discussing that.
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #13 - 06/10/16 at 10:23:06
 
Haha yeah, SweetTooth was right to make fun of Calypso's name.

To be fair to TMX Sweet Tooth it was pretty awesome a scene where he went into a hospital and went on a rampage.

SweetTooth would have no real interest in Joker though outside of feeling accomplished at murdering another serial killer who has a bodycount like his.
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Varia31
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Re: Sweet Tooth vs The Joker (DEATH BATTLE)
Reply #14 - 06/10/16 at 10:30:01
 
Oh, I'm sure. And that was another thing I found funny was how he himself viewed the Twisted Metal contest as a silly little game that he had to deal with just so he could reach his goal.

I'm sure that killing Joker would be a proud moment for him. Gotta snuff out the competition. Look what he did to Cage (Warthog's driver) in the Harbor City demo we had in Head-On Extra Twisted Edition. Guy thought he could take on Sweet Tooth but got put in his place by way of an embarrassing defeat.

Also, I made the thread: http://temp.tmalliance.com/?num=1465550714/0#0
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