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TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM (Read 5734 times)
Muddeh
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TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
08/24/15 at 09:59:27
 
There's been lots of talk on this board about which of the new entrants to the Twisted Metal contest are our favourites. Three and a half years down the line, we've seen these vehicles mastered with their full depth and diverse playstyles revealed. With the long history of the series and vast array of past contestants yearning to be invited back to the world's most destructive show, and the limited number of vehicles that can partake, it leaves us with the following question. Which of last contest's contestants deserve to be reinvited for another shot to claim the ultimate prize? With the ideal scenario that all vehicles in a future TM would be granted their own unique character and backstory, and balanced among a cast of past and present fan-favourites, I wanted to compile a list from a TM 2012 vet's point of view of what vehicles are deserving to be in a future TM.

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Death Warrant:
Although DW was my primary vehicle both competitively and casually for about two years, I'll be honest that (although it's damn sleek ride) it's a very bland vehicle in TM's roster. Obviously it's unoriginal that it clones Roadkill's special, but even though it's purposefully meant to be one of the worst specials in the game, they could have at least gave it something that have it some identity. While DW certainly serves its purpose well in TM 2012 as the game's skill-based midweight, there's enough of those types of vehicles across TM's roster already. I'd prefer to see Crazy 8 or Yellow Jacket reemerge over DW.

Juggernaut:
I get what they were trying to do with Jugg, and I do respect that this vehicle was implemented to add depth to team modes. But really, I have trouble seeing Juggernaut ever adding anything meaningful to the game. If you eliminate the ways that the vehicle is broken in this iteration of TM, all you're left with is a bullet sponge that has basically no offence or defence. Fighting a Jugg is boring because it's not a challenge to hit, and it'll probably shield most of what you throw at it in the first place, and as a driver of Jugg, it's even more boring and frustrating to be constantly harassed. By yourself, all you can do is try to catch your pursuers off-guard with absorption shields, or try to ram them, but rarely is that ever successful against someone competent.

It comes down to making the teammate's turrets worthwhile to use without being cheap, and requiring skill and coordination between the driver and gunners. I just can't see Jugg coordination being anything more skillful or deep than coordinating in standard vehicles. Jugg could be neat in games as large as 7v7 and up where things are more chaotic and coordination isn't as important as outplaying each individual opponent you encounter. But really, TM plays best with smaller teams to start with, and I don't want to have to deal with a Jugg every single ten minute match. So, I wouldn't be heartbroken if Jugg, or Jugg-like vehicles were scrapped in standard modes, though I'd like to see something like the Chase to Vegas mode come to fruition someday.

Kamikaze:
KK is arguably the most practical lightweight in the game, and it does have some unique traits. The fact that it's the first vehicle in a decent TM to have a special which freezing enemies is really neat, and it makes KK a really accessible lightweight for newer players, with the potential to be mastered by veterans. However, I don't like that KK serves as a spiritual successor to Spectre, and I'd prefer Spectre to return. A neat concept for a future TM would be for Spectre to have its trademark ghost missile which should be easy to outrun or dodge, but have its real power come from the freezing alt special borrowed from its spiritual connection with KK.

Meat Wagon:
Conceptually, MW fits great in the TM universe. It's an original vehicle with a twisted, but  humorous special that I'd be curious to know the story behind if it had a unique driver. I also believe its piloted alt special was unique and skillful weapon after receiving its needed delay period before a player can regain control (disregarding extended shields). However, if it were to make a return, it needs a re-imagined primary special.

Funny enough, Meat Wagon was imagined as overpowered in the early on and viewed as the king of juggling, but in reality it's a lower-tier vehicle in current day, and is really only effective as an opportunistic vehicle against enemies that don't have a shield to negate the primary's staggering effect. I think Meat Wagon deserves a second chance, but needs a skill-based primary special rather than fire and forget crap. Otherwise, MW doesn't serve a purpose as long as a superior mid-heavy like Roadboat exists.

Roadboat:
This is the most original vehicle in the new game. Some may equate it to just being a Mr. Slam clone, and in a way, it is. It's your textbook mid-heavy that really has nothing going for it besides its special, but it's really one of the most practical vehicles of that class the series has seen. It has the worst speed and handling in its respective title, plus a large hitbox and only mediocre armour. However, it overcomes this by having what I consider the best combination of specials in the game.

The alt special gives you amazing ability to control your opponents like no other TM really offers. There's obvious magnet combos of filling your opponent with mega guns, dropping them off ledges and holding them for teammates, but it presents even more options to skilled players like outright dragging their opponent, pinning them to walls from the opposite side of buildings, and its deadly Twister-esque napalm combo. But really, it's not overpowered because it takes time for a Roadboat to prepare and coordinate these attacks, and it's always vulnerable to being double-teamed and taking abuse from a player in their magnet, so it takes team coordination for this vehicle to play at its best.

The primary is no slouch either. It acts like souped-up fire missile, but can be skillfully ricocheted for nearly five times the damage. There's always an inherent risk to not shielding the magnets if you don't see their full trajectory, or even for it to rebound back at you after you've dodged them. Roadboat really has a lot of layers of depth to it, and is a really rewarding skill-based mid-heavy. I really want to see Roadboat in a future TM, most likely as a successor to Mr. Slam that's practical in combat without being reliant on freezes or errors made by its opponent.

Talon:
Please, do not include a flying vehicle in a future Twisted Metal. The provisions that need to be made to the weapon mechanics, vehicle balance and map layouts to accommodate a flying vehicle will only detract depth from the game, regardless if it's balanced in the end.

Vermin:
Like Meat Wagon, this is one of the couple new vehicles that really had some character, and would be interested in knowing the backstory of whoever was behind the wheel. But like Death Warrant, this vehicle is bland in combat. It does have some depth in lineup construction since it can cover both the role of a midweight and mid-heavy, being speedy enough to map control while fundamentally being an isolation-based vehicle that is one of the best 1v1 vehicles, but it really struggles when singled out by more than one opponent.

The primary has no depth being a near-undodgeable missile, and while the alt was intended to be controlled manually, it's really only practical for its long-distance auto-aim attack, or an undodgeable stagger attack when aiding a teammate in close range. Based on that, the specials really need an overhaul if Vermin should return. I do want a vehicle to exist to bridge the gap between the two classes and serve a similar purpose to what Vermin serves in TM 2012, though.

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So, that's my opinion. Basically, I really want to see Roadboat return, and I'd like to see certain elements and specials from a couple of other vehicles, but wouldn't be too disappointed if they didn't reappear under the same name. I disregarded Reaper from the list since it's obviously Mr.Grimm, and we're bound to see him reappear. So, what're TMA's opinions?
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Luis
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #1 - 08/24/15 at 22:09:57
 
The new cars took me some getting use to to like them. I was one of those people that wanted to see more of the old cars come back and didn't care about these forgettables. I don't mind the new cars now but Talon should have been replaced by one of the old cars. I rather see the return of the yellow construction cars and a new one instead of Roadboat. Those are my most favorite Twisted Metal cars and the PS3 Twisted Metal was the first to end that tradition.

TM2: Mr. Slam
TM3: Auger
TM4: Super Slamm Auger Crusher
TMB: Manslaughter (His special is projectiles but a dump truck is still a part of those yellow construction cars)
Small Brawl: Slam
Head On: Mr. Slam
TMPS3: Roadboat (A 1972 Chevrolet Biscayne)

Mr. Slam's special relied too much on freeze though or shield to safely approach a car, due to it's slow speed. It really looks like a low tier car. Keep in mind that TM2 was not balanced around multiplayer, which is why catching someone with his special in 1vs1 against an expert would be near impossible, without the ricochet+freeze combo in a wide open area. In the PSP version of Head On his special was replaced by three missiles in multiplayer. The developers thought his loader special would be useless in 1vs1 against real players and it was true since hit and running ruled that game.

Roadboat doesn't need freeze for his special which is a good thing, but I think the special is too easy to use because you can use it immediately. Make it so that you have to charge it up. I don't know for how long, just make it so that the magnet doesn't get activated on every encounter. You're not going to see Roadkill's 122 damage blood missiles every time you see the car. And it's really dumb that you can't switch weapons while on the magnet, reducing the options for the victim to fight back. I would really like to switch to that power missile or napalm but can't. Roll Eyes

While Kamikaze is suppose to be  Spectre, I see it as Thumper with once again a different name and his flamethrower taken by another car. This happened four times in the series. Spectre should come back instead of Kamikaze.

Vermin's alt special was done poorly and extend shield is part of the reason. The alt special was meant to be used while you're are in a isolated area. His armor increases while he's controlling the missile to protect him from dying fast. But thanks to extend shield that armor buff is irrelevant because you can use the special anywhere and whenever in a crowed place and have a shield that lasts for a long time. I don't think this car should return though. The design is really meh.

I don't mind Meat Wagon coming back. Death Warrant shouldn't come back since he's a clone. An idea that I had a long time ago is combining Pit Viper and Grasshopper. Make Grasshopper's the primary special and Pit Viper's as the alt. Of course that never was going to happen.

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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #2 - 08/25/15 at 15:10:59
 
I'd be surprise to see any of them again. They all seem like shells that were used for this multiplayer version of TM. If anyone was to return and be given a story it would probably be Meat Wagon. Anyone that had a copy special is almost guaranteed to be out the door.



Figured I voice my opinion/experience on a few.

Kamikaze
I had some fun with this car's freeze special and on rare occasions red mega guns+flame, but the freeze shockwave didn't always seem to land despite being sure I was doing it right.


Death Warrant
I mostly used the car for the look and speed. I came to like the special and abundance of it, but in the end I mostly found myself switching to Roadkill for the extra damage. For blandness it doesn't get any more than with DW. With an almost useless special compared to others, it was more practical to use weapon pickups.


Vermin
I actually enjoyed using this one for a little while and performed decently on the scoreboards. I did some camping here and there and it's hands down the anti-air vehicle. Plus shooting the special+rocket sidearm was a guaranteed 45 damage.


Flying
I like flying but it needs to be kept in the air. A flying vehicle pestering someone on the ground is not working. The only way to incorporate it is if there was 2 or 3 other flying vehicles, or something. I'm not sure how it could be done properly. Maybe in a separate mode.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #3 - 08/25/15 at 17:55:56
 
I agree with the OP for almost everything, but I also agree with Luis on the construction vehicles. Almost all the new characters except Roadboat felt bland, and like nothing special compared to their TM2 counterparts that didnt end up being in the game. Though I do disagree. To me it felt that Roadkill coped Death Warrant's special in this game, and did it better. I would have liked Roadkill to go back to his boomerang special, or something unique in that if he missed with it he would get another shot when it came back around to him. Roadboat hands down was the most fun to play as of the new cars for me, and even if he doesnt return I want to see his specials come back. Regardless of how strong or weak it was it was very unique, and I think we need more "bouncing specials" that can ricochet off walls and around the level.  Remove kamikaze for Spectre, and hell get rid of Crimson Fury or at least change his special so we dont have multiple cars with flamethrowers or zoomy rockets like we did with DW and RK.

Slam needs to return. Though honestly in my opinion if people can land axel, and warthogs special in multiplayer they shouldnt have any trouble catching people with slams special. I know its a pain to get people with warthog, and axel but a few tweaks to hits registering, and they would be a lot better. Slam would fall into this group; a big car with a hard to hit special that you have to actually ram people with to get off.
No Talon! remove the damn flying...or heres and idea like an above poster. have a FLYING ONLY mode, where EVERY car in the game can fly lol that would be unique, but a pain to do so just axe it.

Id be fine with no Vermin, and Meatwagon.

And lastly. Give Sweet Tooth back his bouncing icecream special. I hated the stupid robot version from Black, and still hated it in this game. Keep him as a truck with explodable sweets.

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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #4 - 08/25/15 at 18:30:35
 
Nah Mr. Slam doesn't need to return. I feel he's been in too many games already. Unless they pull a Twisted Metal 4 and add both Slam and a new one together. I rather see a new construction vehicle like this one.

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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #5 - 08/26/15 at 05:38:43
 
I'd be all for a wrecking ball vehicle, cool idea!! Swinging that thing around and having cars fly as far as they do when Juggernaut rams them would be a blast! Bob the Builder strikes again!
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #6 - 09/24/15 at 17:34:34
 
I got tons of ideas for twisted metal and am slowly putting them down in a game design document.

Definte grass hopper with the shadow alt coffin aim for the jump attack, it would be like a dark slide slam but follows along the coffin aim line and does splash damage and causes ripple effect. The height of grass hopper trajectory changes potency off ripple bomb. the lower the trajectory the further grass hopper travels after landing. Maybe add doof doof music to grasshoper like meatwagons siren or sweet tooths music lol.

you guys should be coming up with shit like this.

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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #7 - 09/25/15 at 17:45:42
 
Luis wrote on 08/24/15 at 22:09:57:
Roadboat doesn't need freeze for his special which is a good thing, but I think the special is too easy to use because you can use it immediately. Make it so that you have to charge it up. I don't know for how long, just make it so that the magnet doesn't get activated on every encounter.

I'm not sure about requiring a charge, but I think it could be balanced by allowing the victim of the magent to use a turbo dash in the half-second period where their vehicle is static before getting pulled in, allowing them to put some distance between themselves and the Roadboat. It'd make managing your turbo more important if you're facing a Roadboat, and it'd still give the slow Roadboat a decent chance to give chase to a vehicle that sacrifices their turbo to escape an alt special. I don't have an issue with the victim not being able to switch weapons while locked in the magnet, as it just requires a quick reaction to realize a Roadboat's pulling you in, and quickly switch to a weapon you can counterattack with.

Luis wrote on 08/24/15 at 22:09:57:
Vermin's alt special was done poorly and extend shield is part of the reason. The alt special was meant to be used while you're are in a isolated area.

Yeah, a Vermin should have to pay for its mistake if it receives damage during the delay period after its alt special. Granted, I've never been highly opposed to extended shields since it's usually a waste of energy, and it's not something that is really that game-breaking or abusive, but at least sitting vulnerable balanced the fact that it was an undodgeable 50 DD that has a strong staggering effect for teammates. The Meat Wagon alt gurney is (conceptually) the superior piloted weapon in the game. I think if the alt gurney had a staggering effect like Vermin's alt rocket, it'd be a really balanced "all or nothing" type of attack in close range where if you land it, your opponent will probably be staggered until the delay period ends and you regain control, but it you miss, you're a sitting duck.

TheScrappyElf wrote on 08/25/15 at 17:55:56:
Though honestly in my opinion if people can land axel, and warthogs special in multiplayer they shouldnt have any trouble catching people with slams special. I know its a pain to get people with warthog, and axel but a few tweaks to hits registering, and they would be a lot better.

I wouldn't say it's practical to land either Axel or Warthog's crush specials against competent opponents on a regular basis. As a Warthog in high-skill lobbies I usually only get a crush or two per game, more often on maps that have bottleneck areas that force others to fight close-quarters with you. Otherwise, most players will keep enough distance between themselves and the Warthog so that the crush isn't an option, and unless you catch people off-guard with Warthog's decent turbo dash and pretty slick handbrake turn, it requires an error by your opponent to be make the crush a possibility. It least you can also initiate the special just before making contact so it can be unpredictable. Warthog has a lot of other things going for it like its strong crowd controller, decent maneuverability (if you know how to drive it properly), and it's massive HP. But I see Mr. Slam in a future TM only turning out almost exactly like Axel in this iteration, being a bottom feeder. The crush special would predictable to shield, it'd be really unstable and easy to knock around, plus it likely wouldn't have redeeming secondary special. I just don't see how what redeeming attributes you can give it without having it lose what made Mr. Slam special and unique. I think Manslaughter is the best choice to revive the tradition of construction vehicles.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #8 - 09/26/15 at 00:29:07
 
Do people not freeze combo with specials anymore? That use to be the key to short range specials, Aka Mr. Slam, Dark Side and now Axel.

I know it's not viable with some of the smaller vehicles due to the short freeze time, but it's just a thought.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #9 - 09/26/15 at 14:54:51
 
†Adonael wrote on 09/26/15 at 00:29:07:
Do people not freeze combo with specials anymore? That use to be the key to short range specials, Aka Mr. Slam, Dark Side and now Axel.


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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #10 - 09/26/15 at 18:15:07
 
I actually don't consider Meat Wagon a TMX Original. He was in Rogue Trip first but with the name Ozone. I could see this vehicle returning in the future, but probably (hopefully) with a different special. The gurney was super unfair to small cars in my opinion. I do not want a gurney type of special returning.

RoadBoat is fine, but I'd rather see Thumper return in the future. Kamikaze is a similar case, where the car design is pretty much based off a classic vehicle (Spectre) and thus it doesn't feel like a totally new vehicle apart from the special weapon. I'd take the original vehicle names over the new ones. As for the magnet special, I found it rather obnoxious, although a magnetic projectile that can ricochet off walls is pretty neat. As for Kamikaze's flamethrower... WTF, why does he have a flamethrower? Totally useless, but the idea of a freezing shockwave was pretty cool and useful.

Both Talon and Vermin should never come back. Both are designed for trolling, have rather annoying advantages, and are seemingly made for each other... with Vermin being anti-air, and Talon being anti-campers. I don't feel these sort of special vehicles enhance gameplay, they just make things more frustrating/not fun.

Juggernaut I'm cool with but TMX needed another massive vehicle. I think Hammerhead/Slayer should have been on the roster along with Juggernaut then TDMs would have had a real clash of titans. Juggernaut was meant to be the Minion of TMX, but it didn't quite work out that way. Juggs would often get out of hand with a medic Jdog player helping.

Death Warrant is surprisingly balanced. I would like to see DW come back in the future but with a different, more interesting alt-special.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #11 - 09/27/15 at 04:07:09
 
†Adonael wrote on 09/26/15 at 00:29:07:
Do people not freeze combo with specials anymore? That use to be the key to short range specials, Aka Mr. Slam, Dark Side and now Axel.

The biggest problem is that if a vehicle is reliant on using a freeze missile to land a special, it becomes really predictable. If you look at Darkside and Reaper in TM 2012, the best players in those vehicles basically never use freeze missiles to set up their specials in current day. However, the freeze missile definitely softens the learning curve for those type of specials. Back in the initial weeks people cried that Axel, Darkside and Reaper were overpowered because of their combos with freeze, but then a few weeks later by the time people learned how to combat them freeze missiles and not get suckered into them, it was a total 180 and most people were crying those vehicles were underpowered. Over time people figured out how to hit Darkside and Reaper's specials consistently without freeze missiles, since both specials could both cover ground quickly and didn't have to be executed solely in close-quarters. Those two vehicles turned out to be a couple of the stronger vehicles in the game, but Axel's crush special (bearing resemblance to Mr. Slam's) can't cover those distances since it doesn't act like a projectile, and only functions in close-quarters. Using a freeze missile for a 60 DD special (you're usually better off turbo-dashing and ending your special since it'll stagger your victim... but a lot of the time you'll get staggered by it too since Axel is so unstable) is hardly worth spending all your energy, plus it's rarely effective on lightweights since they can tap out so fast... assuming it even lands and your target doesn't just absorb it.

MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 09/26/15 at 18:15:07:
RoadBoat is fine, but I'd rather see Thumper return in the future.

I could see both vehicles in a roster, especially if a spot frees up for a mid-heavy should Meat Wagon and Vermin not reappear. I could see it actually playing a similar role as Vermin, being a vehicle with a poor turning radius that relies more on forward/backwards motions in its attack and defensive patterns, but has decent acceleration and speed. Basically the opposite of Roadboat, which has floaty handling but nothing under the hood. It'd just need an alternate special that is viable against lighter opponents, but if burn damage is made substantial it would be a candidate for a decent close-quarters special.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #12 - 10/07/15 at 07:14:28
 
Very cool ideas guys, and all the arguments brought up made sense in one way or another. Heres hoping we even get a new Twisted metal on ps4 for some of these changes to possibly be made.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #13 - 10/25/15 at 01:36:43
 
MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 09/26/15 at 18:15:07:
As for the magnet special, I found it rather obnoxious,

That thing needs a nerf seriously. Both that and napalms. You can use napalms after you got someone for an easy 110 damage. It doesn't matter if you escape from the magnet, they actually want you to get out and they will use the napalms. If you got no shields you're dead. They should have made it so that the Roadboat can't shoot weapons during the time the car is getting out of the magnet, but of course the developers didn't know this combo exist. The special is not being used the way it was intended. Ramming the car into a wall and throwing the car into another one for big damage. Roadboat already has Double Damage with it's primary to deal over 100 damage which takes more skill than magnet + napalms.
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Re: TM 2012 Vehicles in a Future TM
Reply #14 - 06/14/16 at 22:40:10
 
I would honestly love to see Vermin make a comeback in a future TM game, since the vehicle has a memorable design that totally fits with the TM world. But if they do bring it back, it definitely needs some tweaks. The special needs to be swapped out with something else; something that's more fun to use and holds more depth, but keeps the vehicle's outstanding 1v1 capabilities as its main strength.
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