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Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3? (Read 66467 times)
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #45 - 03/29/15 at 15:54:29
 
Team Deathmatch didn't exist until Head On, so it should be understandable that 1vs1 was popular back then. 1vs1 in Head On was bad. Hit and run was overpowered in Head On according to a certain someone who's name I can't remember that use to write a lot of wall of text, explaining all the tactics and depths of Head On. I guess you can say it was in Head On that 1vs1 died. Then it was resurrected in PS3 and died again.
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #46 - 03/31/15 at 01:17:47
 
Malefactor wrote on 03/25/15 at 15:37:13:
Did you not understand that I brought up the fact that the old games had 1 v 1 multiplayer FIRST to counter your argument that 1 v 1 was not part of intentional design?  In response you didn't even acknowledge the problem in your thinking and instead CHANGED positions and started arguing that was solely due to hardware limitations.

My point in bringing up hardware limitations was to illustrate that the original TM only offered 1v1 split-screen not because that's all they wanted to do, but was all they could do. If they could have incorporated multiplayer with greater than two players, I'm sure they would have. Why wouldn't they? It makes your argument about the early games only allowing 1v1s negligible. Why are there more than two vehicles depicted in combat on the cover of the original Twisted Metal if the grand vision, and the ultimate way to enjoy the game was in 1v1 combat? The fact that the original TM only allowed for 1v1s has nothing to do with my argument that team-based multiplayer is deeper than 1v1s, and it's totally a moot point.

Malefactor wrote on 03/25/15 at 15:37:13:
You also act as if you've provided some great argument for why 1 vs 1 is NOT that deep and yet all you've mentioned is your shallow intent argument and perhaps something about dealing with multiple opponents.

You say I'm mislead and you don't even explain why. Seeing that your original responses to me were quotes I had directed towards others, go back and read what I posted. You're basically just posting a longer version of "you're wrong, just cause I say so!". If nothing I say is compelling, just quote it and shut me down. Not that hard.

Malefactor wrote on 03/25/15 at 15:37:13:
Finally, I don't think you understand that for many of us TM2012 is like comparing apples to oranges with past Twisted Metals.  At least on the subject of 1 v 1.  I played that game for a while in the 1 on 1 arena and couldn't stand it.  I even deemed it worthless as a 1 v 1 game and entirely unfun.  In short, the reasons that I would give for loving 1 v 1 didn't exist as far as I could tell in the new game.  Maybe that's precisely why you, a player of the new game, can't see it.

How much did you play of it, and during what period? If it was within the first couple of months the game was released, I would agree that 1v1s were stale for the time. Really very few players were actually playing competitively and most people were just concerned with playing ranked and trying to earn experience towards their unlocks. Most players were machine gun jousters at the time. There were 1v1 tournaments that occurred shortly after, but even those had no regulations that prevented cheapness, and it wasn't until rules were later set and people gained more experience playing competitive that the game evolved. If you only played during the early era and never developed to the level that current players play at, you don't possess the authority to claim it to be unfun.

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Magnum wrote on 03/25/15 at 12:15:14:
Ok. That's fine there is a misunderstanding here. Just to warn you though, you can't take the things that are said here to seriously. Especially from me. I don't go out of my way to shit on people, and I never have. Just don't think I'll take it either.

Thanks for clarifying, I'll certainly admit to being rash with my response.  I guess I'm just used to getting jabbed at a lot around these parts, so it was pretty easy to interpret that impression as a mockery towards TM 2012's supposed spamming, but considering TMBO's scoring system and the emphasis on finishing kills, that makes sense.

We've got an option for unlimited weapons too in TM 2012, but those kinds of lobbies have never been popular. Even with unlimited spam, players that use manual aim weapons typically still prevail, but it makes the majority of weapons useless and is just shallow.

Magnum wrote on 03/29/15 at 14:59:08:
Does this help with a little more of an understanding now?

I get where you're coming from, yeah. There's a lot of parallels to TM 2012's community, whether by coincidence or not. There's still lots of scrubs that continuously play ranked matches and never enter the competitive unranked environment, and stick to playing in ranked lobbies where they can target weak or new players and win more often since not a lot of pros enter such lobbies. Most of the players that have the most "XP" are like that since we don't gain XP in unranked. I had 1v1s with a lot of these scrubs in the first year, but since then they just don't enter competitive lobbies because they just can't perform on an even playing field. It's the people who play competitively and set themselves up to become a better player that are the best in modern day, regardless of how much raw in-game time they've logged.

There used to be a few advocates of 1v1s in the TM 2012 community, but it really wasn't sustained because competitive team-based multiplayer prevailed as a much better indicator of skill. The fact that the game had the infrastructure to support team matches and the better connections of current day (and better social functions with voice chat, PSN messaging, etc.) allowed the team experience to be more accessible than in Black. In that regard, I totally respect how Black's community was more based around individual prestige, and 1v1s would be an ideal method for backing up your rep. The buzz around the TM 2012 community revolved around clans, rather than individuals. People disliked ranking and comparing players, but there was lots of excitement around teams and how certain vehicles and playstyles could function.

Alt accounts have been a big element of TM 2012 as well, for better or for worse. Later on some players tried forming what were basically super clans with select players from certain clans hidden behind an unknown name, and create lobbies for others to challenge them. It got to the point that people became paranoid when clan battles came around and if players were legit, because it was even possible to disguise yourself as another player if they had a capital I/lower l or capital O/zero (0) in their ID since those characters appeared the exact same with the font TM used. So in a lot of regards, I can relate to your experiences in TMBO, with the major differentiating element being that team matches were the method of exhibiting one's skill, rather than 1v1s.

So, by no means do I mean to deny the relevance of 1v1s in any title. They're an important part of the community and its history. All I've been trying to argue is that TDM contains more depth overall, and a person's consistent performances in that mode is a better indicator of a person's overall skill if team matches are considered the better than FFA. 1v1s are an indicator to an extent as well, and may have more immediate prestige and pressure since you either win or lose, whereas in TDM your team can lose, but you can still have a strong performance. In fact, performing well on a playing field where the balance is not in your favour is even more telling of a player's abilities, and can show whether they'll easily be shut down, or will still manage strong scores regardless of carrying a larger target due to being paired with weaker teammates that don't require as much effort to bank points off of.
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #47 - 03/31/15 at 01:33:51
 
It'd also be fun if we had some 1v1 footage between each of the games to compare to. Had a quick look on YouTube for TM2 and TMBO 1v1s, there seems to be lots of TM2 footage but others would know better who the high-skill players were who are best to reference, and I found little on TMBO. Anybody care to link some? I'll provide some TM 2012 footage of my own.

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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #48 - 03/31/15 at 01:54:03
 
I would reply further, but I think your critical reading comprehension and/or logical thinking just isn't up to snuff.

There's simply nothing more that can be done here.
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #49 - 03/31/15 at 02:23:33
 
You wont find a single high level uber tm2pc 1v1 on youtube, i can assure that.

vimeo has a few old skool ones (in the waning years of tm2pc) of xavirav, myself, AD and Mort, the best of the best and at the pinnacle of skill before the game was no longer played. Its hard to explain everything going on in the vids but combos are king in tm2pc that is for sure, it excelled at that.

https://vimeo.com/2925829 <--- 1v1v1, in this vid you see loads of dodging, backwards driving to dodge and fire, jumping bean dodging, lead shots, setup for freezes with knockback weapons, mine dropping, air damage, 2v1 combos with tight timing.

More info:
"- You will see loads of team rams, sometimes one person either side to ping pong. Or Mr Slam specials someone into a ram.
- Often times you will see us jumping OVER a car, and might wonder why? Its because we are dropping a mine on top of the enemy car and adding a tiny bit of extra damage PLUS getting massive knockback/pop-up on enemy car. Mines great for getting people off edges in roof levels.
- Homings are weak, but cause knockback upon impact.. so they are almost always used to setup a freeze. Lots of other weapons have bounce or knockback effects: Napalms, Grimm skull, or ST cone missile.
- You might scratch heads at all cars reverse driving. This is how skillfully driving and dodging/return firing was done in TM2PC. Tight turn to evade fire whilst returning.
- Remote bombs + air-born target = triple damage. So sometimes you might see a person get rammed into a remote (3X air damage since few feet off floor), or a remote goes off when person is in air.
- Jumping bean is useful for getting in between buildings or generally dodging and jumping over mines to land an aerial to ground ram Smiley
- Corpses last 5 seconds, and yes can be used as meat shields.
- Might often see Axel shockwaving corpses... this is taunting Smiley Since a dead player gets to watch their corpse for a few seconds post death... enemy can taunt the corpse by dropping mines on it, zapping with outlaw's laser, rake with machine guns... "

(I wrote that exert on neogaf about the video in 2013)

A bunch more were recorded but never saw the light of day, unfortunately tm2pc whored CPU usage, not many could use FRAPS and play at the same time. Sadly. Couple other videos on that account, including a 1v1 in paris (no sound) https://vimeo.com/2135038 if interested or want to know more ill explain.

FYI: Team games were the shit in TM2PC but 1v1 or 1v1v1 could be fun too and quite deep. I know I said 1v1 in TM2 could be shit because of runners, but played with some rules it was fucking tight because the combat was so good. Yes we have ragged on TMX for years, but for just cause and the right reasons: its missing so damn much from older games (compelling 1v1, is another bullet point there), but you see all the complaints as illegitimate I suppose.

But this topic is about balance, something that I never had a huge issue with in older games because they were deep in the combat in so many ways. We could work around unbalanced in those games with some rules or balanced teams. The new game balance wasn't our concern, it was the combat, and we couldn't work around that. It never was some conspiracy or unwillingness to embrace change.
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #50 - 03/31/15 at 04:08:42
 


This is a good 1v1. Not sure who's playing here but they seem to be playing competitively. It's spectator mode so you don't see the driver's inventory or other certain actions, but it's good view of the combat. At times anyway
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #51 - 04/01/15 at 05:04:57
 
So then I'm just curious Roadie, why is TM2PC no longer played anymore? From watching the videos I see a very fun and competitive game that's different from TMBO. Do you guys no longer have the programs necessary to do it or something?

Oh, and for those looking to see more TM2PC footage Maartyr's channel on youtube has some good matches. I was also quite entertained by the vimeo content. Are there any more videos stashed in the old archives that anyone could post?
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #52 - 04/01/15 at 05:54:24
 
I recommend this video from maartyr's channel:




I should let Roadie answer but I did inquire about it before and it sounded borderline impossible. The more people the more impossible. Think it had to do with compatibility and modern pc's.


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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #53 - 04/01/15 at 06:16:06
 
Muddeh wrote on 03/31/15 at 01:33:51:
It'd also be fun if we had some 1v1 footage between each of the games to compare to. Had a quick look on YouTube for TM2 and TMBO 1v1s, there seems to be lots of TM2 footage but others would know better who the high-skill players were who are best to reference, and I found little on TMBO. Anybody care to link some? I'll provide some TM 2012 footage of my own.



I was going to link a really good TMX 1v1 video I found recently. It was a small unknown video with only 50 views, but the person was using crimson fury. That's actually what made me click on it, and they turned out to be really good. Anyway they deleted it for some reason. Wish I saved it now.

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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #54 - 05/28/15 at 19:32:04
 
Twisted metal 4 and its not even close
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #55 - 05/31/15 at 14:18:16
 
wwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhahahahahahahhahahahahhhahahhahhehhehehehehehhhelololololololol
ololololololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thanks. I needed that.
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #56 - 06/01/15 at 08:59:09
 
Jeff wrote on 05/28/15 at 19:32:04:
Twisted metal 4 and its not even close


*snickers*

Yeah, like that ridiculous Sweet Tooth with that godly special. TOTALLY BALANCED!
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #57 - 06/01/15 at 15:08:51
 
Nycifer wrote on 06/01/15 at 08:59:09:
*snickers*

Yeah, like that ridiculous Sweet Tooth with that godly special. TOTALLY BALANCED!

Well sweettooth was more of a boss character in 4. If youre talking straight story vehicles, id say four was very balanced. Other characters have also had godly attacks in other tm games. Tower tooth in head on?
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #58 - 06/01/15 at 15:30:38
 
No Twisted Metal game where you can't break free from the ice should be considered balanced. It doesn't help that Twisted Metal 4 has freeze remotes. Also hyperspace is the ultimate get away move for hit and run tactics.
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Re: Which is more balanced for 1vs1? TM2,TMB or TMPS3?
Reply #59 - 06/01/15 at 16:03:16
 
Luis wrote on 06/01/15 at 15:30:38:
No Twisted Metal game where you can't break free from the ice should be considered balanced. It doesn't help that Twisted Metal 4 has freeze remotes. Also hyperspace is the ultimate get away move for hit and run tactics.

And why not? If everyone could use them what about it isn't balanced? And sorry I'm not familiar with hyperspace.
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