What makes the heavy cars in TMBO better than the one in TMB? I know Warthog has fireballs and that's all I know.

I don't think any TM game has ever been designed for, or is nearly as enjoyable in competitive 1v1 in comparison to playing with larger numbers of human players. In every TM title it's easy to exploit an overly defensive and cheap playstyle, whether it be playing hit and run, overstocking your inventory/regenerating your AA and health before initiating an encounter, or abusing the advantages certain vehicles have in isolated confrontations, while they may be balanced in matches with a larger number of players.

I can primarily commentate on TM 2012, since I have decent experience playing 1v1s in that game, though I maintain that 1v1s aren't a true indicator of a player's skill. However, they're definitely fun if you cut out all of the defensive bullcrap. The general rules the experienced community plays by is no health pickups, no cooked remotes (some totally ban remotes, I think they're balanced if free-aimed and used like detnoballs primarily for their staggering effect), no non-standard vehicles (i.e. no Talon, Jugg, or flying Sweet Bot), and to play aggressive in general. This basically means spending minimal time doing weapon routes, and just gathering weapons on the way to meet your opponent and picking them up as the battle shifts through the map, trying to constantly be engaged in fighting your opponent.

Even though the heavier vehicles are generally considered most dominant in TM 2012, 1v1s do give lightweights more opportunity since they aren't disadvantaged by health attrition or excessive pressure like they can be in larger lobbies. A good Crimson Fury can dominate a heavy like Darkside simply with its maneuverability against Darkside's slow turning radius, and even if the Darkside has an inventory full of homing missiles it would struggle even positioning itself to get its reticle locked on. However, there are still some dominant vehicles in 1v1. Shadow is dominant in larger lobbies, and it is also very dominant in 1v1s since it's so well rounded.

However, some vehicles that are mid-tier in team environments are definitely upper-tier in 1v1s. Vermin is the best flanking vehicle in the game, and against only one other opponent it gives Shadow a run for its money as the best 1v1 vehicle. As a general rule, the more open the map is, the better a Vermin does since it can dodge the vast majority of weapons without having to give up armour or the effectiveness/regeneration of its special weapon. There's a person who played Vermin who was pretty mediocre in team matches, but played 1v1 with Vermin solely on Killosseum and was basically unbeatable by virtue of that vehicle and map combination. A lot of the vehicles with decent maneuverability and special regeneration like Death Warrant, Outlaw and Roadkill do well too. The slower mid-weights like Meat Wagon and Roadboat tend to be unfavorable in a lot of scenarios, and while heavies like Junkyard Dog and Sweet Tooth are good against most match-ups, they're especially unfavorable against Shadow or Vermin.

Luis wrote on 03/10/15 at 16:32:37:


Not really, all you have to do is agree not to use it. People are decent enough and the good players don't use it in 1v1 by default. If someone needs to rely on remotes to do well in 1v1, they're basically irrelevant anyways.

Shalashaska wrote on 03/10/15 at 17:58:48:


You can't play online without the patches. You can play split-screen or LAN games, but it's more unbalanced when unpatched since Shadow's special was even more powerful pre-patch, and some of its closest competitors such as Vermin, Death Warrant and Roadkill were weaker.

Malefactor wrote on 03/20/15 at 03:58:24:


My comment about 1v1s not being a true indicator of skill wasn't necessarily directed at the entire TM series, but more so TM 2012. Yes, ability in 1v1s is an indicator of skill in every title to an extent, but it's just not the ultimate indicator. Performance in a team setting is much more telling, in my experience. I've played against players who are freakishly good with Shadow, but when the pressure is on in a team match, their playstyle may not contribute as much in a team environment.

I believe 1v1s exclude many fundamental elements of teamplay such as synchronization, pressure distribution and map control. For me, the thrill of TM is balancing all these elements and playing as efficient as possible. Even in FFA, you need to optimize your weapon routes and try to negate the damage you receive (by finding health) so you don't get pressured into being an easy kill, but 1v1s exclude those elements. It either becomes a battle of pure execution (which is shallow in my opinion), or a trivial match of hit and run, only exposing yourself when in your best interest to do so.

With that said, I have enough experience in 1v1s in TM 2012 to typically dominate, and am capable of selecting basically any vehicle to counter my opponent's selection, but it just lacks the same thrill and intensity. Even though TMBO has more defensive techniques and is generally harder to deal damage on, that only makes 1v1s seem slower and more pointless. I'm not necessarily a fan of FPSs, but I envision a 1v1 on TMBO to be like a 1v1 in CoD, where it just comes down to killing your opponent before they're capable of registering their weapon on you, and void of any other objective that would add depth.

Just because it was popular due to TMBO being slow and 1v1s being a frequent event, it doesn't make them any less shallow. There's a good reason why you require six players to start a ranked match in TM 2012, since playing anything less than 3v3 on the majority of maps is shallow since the terrain is too large to be controlled or coordinated effectively with teammates. 2v2 in unranked on a few specific small maps can be a real test of skill, though.

Please don't get me wrong and misinterpret what I'm saying to think 1v1s are meaningless. 80% of the time if you beat someone in a 1v1, you'll probably outperform them in TDM too, but for the reasons I previously mentioned, it's not a true indicator. Reply to what I post rather than putting words in my mouth. Someone who pansies around spamming in any TM will accomplish nothing because they deal spread damage that is easily negated (probably just with mercy bonuses, let alone other healing methods) and doesn't generate points, unless you're playing carnage where being cheap is more advantageous. Having high damage is one thing, but concentrating it is another. Leave your swagger and your braindead posts at the door if you think you have something meaningful to contribute.

Team is more fun than 1vs1. TMBO and all TMs that came before it didn't had teams so I can see why 1vs1 was a competitive way to play against each other in previous TMs. That has changed in TMPS3 because that game revolves around heavily on teams.

I think what Roadie said is a pretty good summary of things.

First, it doesn't surprise me at all that people who pay TM:2012 don't think 1 on 1 is a true test of skill.  That game has the weakest . . . by far . . . of all the TM 1 on 1 experiences.  One of the biggest testaments to just how bad it is is that the designers wouldn't even allow pure 1 on 1 combat online.  That speaks volumes.

I feel safe in saying that TMB was the best one on one experience.  One on one is not the same as large multiplayer matches.  There is crossover, but many excellent one on one players weren't so good in multiplayer AND there were many amazing multiplayer players that absolutely sucked at one on one.  There were some players that learned both.

Which is more fun?  Come on, that's totally subjective.  I loved both modes but 1 on 1 was always more tense for me.  Multiplayer was more joyful.  Both have their place.  They also share some skill sets, while having other areas that aren't the same.

That's just another reason I love TMB so much.  It had the best of both worlds.

I've notice this pattern. Jabs and hooks are thrown at someone that makes themselves a target. This builds tension and pressure until the person explodes (if they're normal anyway) Unfortunately it's often directed at the wrong person. Magnum is not a confrontational person but neither is muddy. It's obvious the rift between the two games will never close. Ok, whatever. Each opposing party is missing out on either or. I'm playing both games and having a blast. Am I lighting fires and blazing trails? fuck no. I don't even want to upload my TMX match from last night it was so bad, but I might because I haven't uploaded anything TM in awhile. Even so, it was intense fun. I have to say nothing but pros are playing this game now, or at least last night anyway