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The Best and Worst levels online. (Read 12976 times)

Mortimer

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The Best and Worst levels online.
01/15/13 at 19:59:42

Rank your faves and least liked levels for online play. I have 4 faves, and 4 HATES (that I leave rooms nearly always).

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Worst 4 Levels:

#4: Black Rock Stadium

Potentially a great level, ruined by randomness. Every now and then you get a game where the walls stay down and you can have a nice clean open fight, but then you have games where the walls are constantly going up and down making fighting next to impossible, or when the walls do come down and there is electricity everywhere (which can cause suicides). And then there is the lava (again, can cause suicides). Just not enough open areas to fight, except for the outer track. At least there is no traffic. I understand why this level is this way, the level is the enemy, I just wish there was a way for hosts to turn off the walls (in ranked). Popular level for noobs that's for sure!

I give this level 2 blue balls out of 10.

#3: Skyline

The worst rooftop in a TM award goes to this. Rooftop levels have lost their way since TM1 and TM2. TM1 had the classic LA Rooftops, TM2 had New York (granted not as good as TM1's), then TMB had Skyscrapers (not bad but again a drop in design quality), then TMHO's rooftop which is so forgettable I can't even remember what it's called, and finally Skyline which is an abomination. The spinning disc in the middle just does not work online, and as a whole the level just has no flow. It would have been better without a spinning disc and instead have every section connected by bridges to it so we can easily go everywhere. Falling off is made worse by the suicide bugs (it's not consistant and sometimes completely unfair). There are a couple of little places you can fight but those are rare to find anyone there, as most games are just people sniping from all the high points, and lots of frustration on the disc and trying to get around the map.

I give this level 1.5 spinning discs out of 10.

#2: Diesel City

Really close for #1, really close. There is not enough words to express how much I despise this level. All the variations do nothing to eleviate the flaws of this level. Everything that makes for a good level is not here. TM is about car-combat, cars fighting each other, not the level. The roads are all thin, there is annoying guard rails everywhere, lame hills with endless healths everywhere, buildings everywhere, traffic blocking all your weapons, and this level is home to the god-awful variation Skid Row aka Noob Heaven. You can't get any more mindnumbing than Skid Row, except for...

I give this level 1 guard rail out of 10.

#1: Diablo Pass

This is just an absolute abomination. Completely linear, completely lame. Half the cars have no use here (just like Skid Row), and can't compete in the completely mindnumbingly-braindead nature of play in this level. On top of that you have some of the worst spawn locations in the game. For such a huge level, why do we always spawn on the bridge AND facing the edge so we immediately drive off? Not to mention you will have a lot of suicides on this level (or lost kills if you're on the other end). Apparently throwing or ramming or rico'ing people off the edge to their death is them killing themselves.

And that traffic on the bridge, OMFG it is unbelievably annoying. At least Dead Man's Crossing has no traffic and no spawning on the bridge facing the edge. Ghost Town Gulch is the best variation, but still awful (expect lots of people sniping and remoting from the cliff to the town, and lots of people cooking coffins and taxi's in the town). Dogs and Shadows dominate this level. It's just lame tactic after lame tactic. Don't join these games if you want to have fun (unless you are one of those assholes that likes sniping and cooking). I am really confused why this level is so popular, even with the best players.

I give this level 10 screaming fucks out of 10 (that's really bad).

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Best 4 Levels:

#4: Watkyn's Harbor

Just marred by a few sniper spots that encourage lamers. Brewery Battle is probably my fave variation, Factory Feud is not far behind (but confusing at first). Trench Warfare and Tool & Die are sadly a little too big dog friendly, but at least they don't have any sniper spots. Overall a very good level and you can't go wrong here.

I give this level 8 swarmers out of 10.

#3: Metro Square

The full version is too popular, when all the variations are superior. My fave is probably Downtown Doom (basically Metro but with a big section cut out that people never fought in anyway), then Museum Massacre (no subway but perhaps a little too big dog friendly). Not a big fan of the secret subway entrance, runners love this and it gets frustrating everytime certain players get low on health that's where they go to get 2-3 healths down below to nullify all that hard work you did to them. Overall still a great level and fair to all cars.

I give this level 8.5 swarmers out of 10.

#2: Thrills & Spills

The full version, no, not at all. In a 10 minute game, spawning in either the castle or the house of horrors can be costly. A lot of time is just wasted as everyone makes there way to the theme park which is where everyone actually fights, aka Thrills & Kills. This variation is a brilliant level, I love it. Fair to all cars, completely balanced level. This level overall would be even closer to Sunsprings if not for that abomination of a section/variation called House of Horrors. Merlin's Madness on the other hand is pretty good (except in Hunted games), everyone fights around the castle and all cars can compete. Overall a great level.

I give this level 9 swarmers out of 10.

#1: Sunsprings

The level we all got to play in the demo! Funny that it was the best level in the full game. What's funny is that the main level isn't actually my fave level overall, might be 10th overall including every map variation. What I love most about Sunsprings is all the variations, they're brilliant. Old School is my absolute fave level, it's not too big, not too small, nice and open, lots of weapons, it's the perfect level design in my book. I love fighting in the stadium, around it, and in that bigger open area on the left side. Then you have Grindhouse which is the smallest level in the game but still fair to most cars (unlike Skid Row). Killing Field is just the stadium, but you get to fight around it too, and still fair to all cars. And finally you have Slaughterdale, a not-so-big version of Sunsprings, probably one of if not the most balanced levels in the game. You can't go wrong with Sunsprings! An absolute masterclass of level design.

I give this level 10 swarmers out of 10.

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So what are your lists?

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Kilrahi

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #1 - 01/15/13 at 21:57:21

I ditched the game in May. Because of this I know I really can't comment on all the finer things of this game.

Except I can weigh in on this one somewhat. I played long enough to have a strong opinion that TM:2012 had the WORST level in the history of all Twisteds.

That award goes to Diablo Pass. OMG . . . it's like Highway Loop in TMB after it's been dunked in donkey dookie. That level is, without a doubt, the most lousy place to ever have a battle.

Why? Because it takes forever to travel from one end of the level to the other, and the points in between are just a boring road. It would have been eons better if they had just connected each end (like Loop from 2001). Though if they had, it still would have sucked bad. It just wouldn't have been the supremo suckage that it was and still is.

Perfectly fine level for single player. King of the shit for multiplayer.

Now, the best level of the game, in my opinion, was Sunsprings. Not suprisingly, it's the level most like the TMB levels of old. It's OPEN but it FEEL like there is lots of stuff there. You can actually focus on car combat (the point of the game) rather than worrying about which exit to take in order to get on I90 (like in Diesel City).

Very solid solid level. One of the best things about the game. I actually miss playing in this level sometimes.

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MoshTMA

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #2 - 01/15/13 at 22:39:32

Yep. Diablo Pass blows. Horrible map, probably loosely based on The Gulch from Rogue Trip, but designed as a racing course. It's the worst map across all modes of play in the game except SP race#1 where it makes sense. It shouldn't have been an online map at all, it's too linear, the spawn points are dumb especially the bridge ones, and good battles are generally rare on the map. The map sorely needed teleportation orbs too, though that probably wouldn't have been enough to save it.

Sunsprings & Thrills are my two favorites, love those two. Suns has that tm1 suburbs vibe, & Thrills is the definitive theme park map, an improvement over the (also good) carnival map from TM:Lost/tmb2. Metro & Watkyns are also good maps. Skyline & Black Rock meant well but are disappointing, I don't like Diesel, 2nd worst map, it shouldn't have been the default map, all I like about is the small junkyard area in it which can be fun sometimes, and it's tolerable in Nuke since matches in that map tend to be high scoring.

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Skywalker

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #3 - 01/15/13 at 23:09:00

From best to worst:

#1. Sunsprings - plenty of places to go, plenty of weapon pick ups

#2. Metro - love the subway and how it almost links the entire level

#3. Thrills - plenty of places to go, good amount of weapon pick ups

#4. Watkins - the trench fighting is fun, decent all around level

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#5. Skyline - rotating center was interesting at first, but now...

#6. Diablo Pass - would be a much better level if it Actually went in a circle. I'm also hating on this map atm because it's the only one people are currently playing online.

#7. Diesel - I want to like this map, but navigating it is often..annoying

#8. Crack Rock - scarce pick ups. I can deal with everything else

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #4 - 01/16/13 at 13:28:35

MoshTMA wrote on 01/15/13 at 22:39:32:

I think Diablo Pass is the leftover corpse of Race to Vegas mode. Which seems to have gotten morphed into the Dollface boss level and further mutated into a XL map. It would have been a really fun map for a Juggernaut hunt/race.

The map i'm most frustrated with is Skyline. Certain parts of it really shine. It has some nice destructibles that aren't too easy to hit and cause a fair deal of change to the battleground. The buildings that house the dance clubs are also a nice touch and are pretty fun to fight in. I even like the huge lazy susan in the middle. But the combination of Talons, Snipers, and hard to reach bitch spots are way out of control. Rooftop levels are supposed to have that kind of thing. But much like the one in TMHO it doesn't even come close to what they did in TM1, 2 and Black's rooftop levels.

My biggest complaint about the level design is that almost every level has multiple sniping points. Which also often function as camping spots. This wouldn't bother me if it were just one or two levels. But every single one has multiple sniping points and only a few variants are entirely devoid of decent sniping spots.

TMHO had the same issue with swarmer missiles and elevated areas where the attacker can easily escape. That kind of level design punishes people for fighting head to head in the main area of the map and literally rewards camping. It's just not a good design for a TM game. It's not even a great design for a FPS game where sniper rifles are a normal thing.

The one i love the most is Metro Square. It makes up for Skyline being so annoying. It contains hiding places instead of camping spots. An excellent city grid keeping you from being helpless against elevated opponents. A rail system you can use to safely travel above the streets. Multiple tall buildings with full interiors that are useful for both escape and trapping. If you are really good you can blow up the train and crush opponents below you with it.

It has a few areas that aren't really needed. But i like those more and more as i continue to play the map. The Ice Rinks for instance are a great dead end trap. It's also a good place to lure people in with ricos and other high damage strategic weapons.

I love the removal of ENV pickups. It's so nice that there isn't an uninhabitable portion of the map due to a huge tesla coil. I like it much better that you have to blow up a moving train or ram your opponent off a cliff or into a amusement park ride or health truck. It takes more skill and the payoff is even better because it's so rare to kill a player using the environment. Which is great because ENV's rendered certain levels irritating to play in a normal online format. As well as just making some levels generally unplayable like Antarctica falling to pieces naturally in TM2.

I love that the levels that can change with destructibles. But the ENV pickup style of harming opponents with the level never was the best part of combat. It's usually a desperation move when you are out of weapons. Or as a main strategy for a level with an over powered ENV weapon.

I'm playing real loose with the definition of a ENV attack since you can ram people off roofs in TM2 and TMB. But TMX did it right because what one would call the ENV attacks in this game aren't just a one button shot. You have to have extremely good timing to get your huge payoff. Instead of just collecting a easy to get pickup and spamming it when people are in the death zone. Which in some maps was over 1/3rd of the level.

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #5 - 01/16/13 at 19:24:23

Looks like I'm going to agree with the general consensus that Black Rock and Diablo Pass blow balls.... big time. I don't really care much for retarded Diesel Shitty either. However my least favorite map is definitely Gayline (skyline). Altogether 100% shitty map.

I do love any variation of Sunsprings and Metro, and Thrills & Kills is a pretty good map.. though I don't care for the large version of Thrills & Spills or House of Horrors.... those little roads are... dreadful. I also love Watkyn's quite a lot... particularly Brewery Battle. I think the only variation of Watkyn's I'm not very fond of is Factory Fued, but I could be mixing the names up.

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Mr.DooM

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #6 - 01/18/13 at 15:05:50

Looking at your lists, i think my list is gonna be weird.

LA Skyline

: I like the...umm....well, destructibles.
yeah, pretty much that's it.
admit it, you probably had fun going with Axel in the center of a room full of glass and chairs, going back with the cam, and just firing that shockwave. watching everything getting destroyed by that purple power ring.
Yeah, it sucks online.

Thrills and Spills

: The map is too big, and complicated in a way, takes forever to master everything in it, i like many things about it, but i dislike much more things about it, and i barely play in it, most of my games in that map are with BRAKs, and a couple of nukes, easy ones.

Generally, these were the only two maps i dislike in TMX.

Diablo Pass

: I Like it so much, it's like the typical tactic of collect then fire it all, then go back and collect.
when two teams are playing in it, i find it an epic battle, each one taking a side of the map, then the bridge, you see all kinds of attacks flying to the other side with a few crossing it to fight. i just love such battles.

Metro Square

: i like everything in there except how fucked up you will be once stuck in that ski area thing, with a heavy armored vehicles standing at the entrance releasing everything on you.
other than that, it's a great map.

Black Rock Stadium

: I love it how it resembles Moscow from TM2, and i find it great, totally the best enemy.
the way you can get a Suicide almost anywhere, is the best challenge, and the mini-maze thing in it, how walls go up and down, when you use them right you can get out of any situation. and the sky-bridges are fun to go through in CF.

Watkyns Harbor

:
I love the atmosphere, I love the destructibles, I love the idea and how big it is and all the options if gives to the player. nothing bad about it.

Favorite 2 Maps:

Sunsprings California

:
Perfect Map, great design, can turn into an epic battlefield after 7 minutes of playing in it, great nuke games can take place there, wouldn't miss a chance of a good game in there.

Diesel City

:
It has the Twisted feel in it, it's fun to go around fight in it.
many things to explore, and fun to stand and look around in the middle of it, i find it one of the best maps to play with good players.

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #7 - 01/18/13 at 16:05:08

My top maps would have to be:
Sunsprings: I mean how is this not the best map? I really wish there was a stadium only variant, limited to the inside only like Minion's Stadium from TMB.
Watkyn's Harbor: Just because I like how most games play out on it, it's set up very well.

My honorable mentions would be:
Diesel City: Just because I really like the verticality of it and too me it gives it some fun opportunities
Metro Square: It's sort of like that River Park Rumble Christmas level from TM1 and I've also had a few fun games on it.

My absolute least favorite levels are probably:
Diablo Pass: there's isn't enough weapons, and I always find myself stuck in the small town. Also it's just boring.
Thrills and Spills: Why? Because it's a god damn maze! I always get lost in one of those large fun houses at the ends of the park and there's too many spots were driving perfectly is the key to getting away off of a ramp or missing and getting slaughtered.

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TyrantII

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #8 - 01/19/13 at 14:01:26

I like Blackrock in theory, but you're right that latency issues kill and glitch just about everything that makes it unique. I really wish there was a way to turn off, or lower the preset changes. They only seem to glitch anyways.

Diablo Pass is just bad design for a game where combat, not racing, is the focus. It could have been made better if there was a way to actually use the dam as a second bridge, and if there were two plateau on each side with ample open space. Basically the high areas from the Ghost Town Gultch should have been designed around the canyon and bridge / dam, but bigger. The damn could offer some interesting environmental damage and deductibles stuff to get inside it. This was one of Jaffe's favorite levels that I feel was shoehorned in, and unfortunately I think like Talon and COC is was a bad idea. That said, it's small version gulch is great from smaller games.

Diesel City & Thrills and Spills are maps where their full versions aren't really good for gameplay, but their diced up versions are the bee's knees. Likewise having a full room, and using the XL versions, people tend to clump and just spam each other.

LA Skyline's problem is the open area is in the middle while all the destructible are at the edges, and offer little reason use them. Honestly, the best fix would be to invert the design. Make the middle the high ground you need to fight up to, to get to the top large open spaces. The outsides are the low ground, you get sniped from the hill above, and the destructibles lead you up there faster.

Metro is my favorite by far, in all it's variations. But it still sufferers from the issue where large parts of the level go unused. Whens the last time you used the back connecting bridge? Did you know about the different levels and jumps around the ice rinks? Ditto for the hills in Sunsprings. They're cool areas and all, but it feels like there was little thought put into how they'd flow in the core gametypes.

Now, play nuke, and a lot of these complaints dissolve.

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MoshTMA Admin Offline Posts: 972 Gender:	Re: The Best and Worst levels online. Reply #9 - 01/19/13 at 16:48:54 Mr.SLaM wrote on 01/18/13 at 16:05:08: My top maps would have to be: Sunsprings: I mean how is this not the best map? I really wish there was a stadium only variant, limited to the inside only like Minion's Stadium from TMB. Killing Field is close enough.
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MoshTMA

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #10 - 01/19/13 at 17:02:47

TyrantII wrote on 01/19/13 at 14:01:26:

Diablo Pass is just bad design for a game where combat, not racing, is the focus. It could have been made better if there was a way to actually use the dam as a second bridge, and if there were two plateau on each side with ample open space. Basically the high areas from the Ghost Town Gultch should have been designed around the canyon and bridge / dam, but bigger. The damn could offer some interesting environmental damage and deductibles stuff to get inside it. This was one of Jaffe's favorite levels that I feel was shoehorned in, and unfortunately I think like Talon and COC is was a bad idea. That said, it's small version gulch is great from smaller games.

Diesel City & Thrills and Spills are maps where their full versions aren't really good for gameplay, but their diced up versions are the bee's knees. Likewise having a full room, and using the XL versions, people tend to clump and just spam each other.

LA Skyline's problem is the open area is in the middle while all the destructible are at the edges, and offer little reason use them. Honestly, the best fix would be to invert the design. Make the middle the high ground you need to fight up to, to get to the top large open spaces. The outsides are the low ground, you get sniped from the hill above, and the destructibles lead you up there faster.

Metro is my favorite by far, in all it's variations. But it still sufferers from the issue where large parts of the level go unused. Whens the last time you used the back connecting bridge? Did you know about the different levels and jumps around the ice rinks? Ditto for the hills in Sunsprings. They're cool areas and all, but it feels like there was little thought put into how they'd flow in the core gametypes.

Now, play nuke, and a lot of these complaints dissolve.

The dam in Diablo is just for show, and the only thing I like about the map lol. It really is just a racing course. I agree that maps like that one & Metro & Suns have these large unused areas *in the full versions* that would be fun to fight in if people went there. The hills in Suns is great but mostly used by Talon to get healths. All it takes is destroying the 2 parabolic antennas to get on the hills easier but most people don't bother. It kind of ruins Sunsprings in Nuke mode too because every inning the map resets (so the destroyed antennas would come back), and it makes it hard to stop nukes that go over that area. In Metro that whole area with the draw-bridge is a fun place to fight in, but no one ever bothers going there except in Nuke since the missile from the stationary launcher usually takes that path. Diablo Pass has a whole area on the left side of the map that no one every bothers to fight in, people only ever go there for health, but it's so out of the way you end up wasting several minutes just going there. LA Skyline has 2 battleground areas that open up when you destroy the blimp & the wrecking ball - but rarely does anybody bother. Thrills & Spills has areas on the mountains that border T&K w/ Merlins/Horrors that nobody ever uses or fights in (they are hard to access though). Full Maps in this game are for the most part unnecessarily large for the # of players the game allows.

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #11 - 01/30/13 at 00:21:08

Doom I d o agree with you that Black Rock resembles a very large Moscow, however I hate the map in ranked games. I enjoy the map enough to actually admit I really like it when we are hosting our unranked BRAK games and we turn environmental hazards off... but that's not very often lol. We need to do that more! The only problem I really can think of with T&K is that lamers tend to get up on the center mountain and snipe people... Fagbots and Fagons can be real assholes around there too... other than that very enjoyable map with plenty of pickups and open space to fight, yet doesn't lack places to plan sneak attacks or avoid things.

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #12 - 02/12/13 at 17:48:52

I love Sunsprings, Watkyn's Harbor, Metro Square and Diesel City. Diesel City because it kinda reminds me of some of the TMBO maps. I do not care for the guard railings all over the place but over all that map is awesome. Sunsprings is an open map, the best kind for a game like TMB. To be honest, I do not know why there arent more Suburbs TMB - like maps in this game. Would have made the gameplay tons better.

I absolutely hate Diablo's pass save for the small town version of the map. The suicide mistakes in that map are unforgivable, and the worst place for a boss encounter. Dont even get me started on mp on that map.

I hate the theme park. The spawn locations were just horrible time wasters.

BlackRock stadium is an impressive level imo. I really liked all the traps in that map. It was also an awesome Nuke map.

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Zerathustra

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Re: The Best and Worst levels online.
Reply #13 - 02/15/13 at 05:12:08

Diesel City is my favorite. I tend to enjoy the narrow passage ways & choke points, after all, I am a reaper player. The hills give you eyes on the enemies around the map while the buildings provide shelter thrusting you into chases or complex baiting strategies. The rooftop portions to this level are brilliantly amusing to me, sniping & remote bombs aside, it's as if they deserve their own seperate map due to such intricacies. This map is one of the pinnacles of TM for variation & complexity. This map also closely resembles TMB, so how can you go wrong?

Watkyn's Harbor seems to pay homage to the softest bleeding TM fan's heart; TMHC. Minuscule, yet significant to mention is the isogonic property to this map. Both ends are tied off with oil refineries, certainly fitted for Nuke's,play scheme. The lofty aspects, again, amaze me here. There are great segments of rooftop battles & low, sunken clouts in the smokey canal. Immense diversity at every corner. Chases on the freeway can quickly change to brawls in the foreground, sending you running for the well spaced cover tangents of fuel tanks & utility houses. Changing some of the environment by destruction & then being able to access new places is key to TM, & this map has it.

Metro Square is snowy & beautiful. I am very proud of the team for this one! The subway section is very clever, I can sometimes spend the entire match there without having to leave! The store fronts, the museum, the ice rink, the roof top portions & the draw bridge all compile such convoluted yet flowing gameplay. I like how the bridge from Santa's Toy Store to the library becomes damaged, making you think twice before diving for that mega guns out in the open & you better have turbo to make the jump because otherwise you fall in the middle of the perpetual fire fight bellow!

Sunsprings California is a trademark for TM. It has the suburds & schools surrounded by downtown & the cinema theater. Just crashing through the theater is a blast! I find the hills area a little out of the way though. I like big areas of the map being designated but there just isn't enough flow to that area of the map. I think this map has the best variation of destructible/non-destructible items in a given open area. The houses provide great visible cover & allow for some attacks to be thwarted giving you some time to breathe between brawls & chases. The 2 stadiums on either side seem superfluous, but that's because of Nuke mode requiring isogonic map design. I like that you can drive even furtger into the fire station, I know, small detail. Ultimately, these maps are massive, have fast paced sections including brawl spots, chase sections & vantage points.

These are my favs

For the record though, Metro is NOTHING like River Park Rumble, Mr' Slam. Downtown Business District is much mor like River Park Rumble.

« Last Edit: 02/15/13 at 17:14:14 by Zerathustra »

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