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Poll Poll
Question: Do you believe the media is honest about 9/11?

Yes    
  5 (41.7%)
No    
  7 (58.3%)




Total votes: 12
« Created by: Hellbent on: 10/11/12 at 07:37:14 »

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9/11 never forget (Read 70823 times)
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #15 - 09/13/12 at 03:57:12
 
Yea I was working at the Woolworth building at the time across the street from the towers. When you heard the first plane, we panicked and ran out of the building before they even evacuated. It was worse than any noise I had heard before that. So loud.
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #16 - 09/13/12 at 12:07:54
 
"Someone had fired missiles at the World Trade Center's north tower from atop the nearby Woolworth Building."

WNBC News

"...we just had a second explosion, possibly a missile from the roof of the Woolworth Building."

Port Authority Police Officer
WNBC News

"They're shooting at the Trade Center from the Woolworth Building."

Radio Dispatch
NY Daily News

"The first one they think was a guy shooting the missiles off the Woolworth Building."

WTC Police Channel 07
Mercury News

"Woolworth Building! They're firing missiles from Woolworth Building!"

Police Channel
Portland Inymedia


"...there was a missile launch at the Woolworth building."
Police Officer, 09:18AM
Mailgate News

"...the police had a report that a missile had been fired at the World Trade Center from the Woolworth building."

Alan Reiss, WTC Police Desk
9-11 Commission Hearing

" There was a 'swooshing' sound, then an explosion, and it sounded really low. It was if someone, one or two floors above me, had launched a shoulder-fired missile."

Lance Cpl. Alan Reifenberg
Marine Corps News

As we pulled ‘round the corner, we stopped the rig, and a cop walked over to us and said, `I saw them shoot a missile launcher off that building, you guys better be careful up there.’

NYC Fireman
Mr.Bellers Neighborhood




...




Since we have people here who do not like to research or think for themselves:  

Simonshack at cluesforum citing Eric Darton's "Divided We Stand".





THE WTC'S DECLINE AND EXODUS


Talking about "9/11 institutions", what of the WTC complex itself? What was it exactly? Most people in the world are still, I think, under the impression those towering behemoths really were the pride of US bustling capitalism, with shiny modern offices and luscious furniture - and lots of happy tenants. Hence, in order for the public to start accepting that perhaps the WTC towers were empty (and hopefully everyone knows no one can die in an empty building), this basic myth has to be blown apart.

Here are some extracts of "Divided we stand" by Eric Darton (1999) which should be quite illuminating for people who don't know - or cannot come to terms with the notion - that the towers were a redundant, decrepit and largely vacated ghost structure - perhaps long before 2001.

***

(from p.190)
DETAILS: THE PHYSICAL PLANT

Pacing out the periphery of the trade towers in the late 1990s, one nav-
igated a cracked badlands of sidewalk crudely patched with mismatch-
ing cement. The weathered, gray (originally white) Italian marble
paving on the plaza was a spiderweb of cracks, a condition that under-
mined the addition of benches and flowerbeds and the tinkling medley
of new-age harmonics emanating from a score of tiny speakers mounted
beneath Yamasaki's arcades. Construction equipment and barricades
around the site appeared to have been deployed and then abandoned
by a retreating army.

And up in the towers, where asbestos removal was still under way,
a host of details pointed toward a rift opening up within the trade cen-
ter itself. In 1985, when New York State moved most of its offices out,
Dean Witter consolidated its operations in twenty-four floors of Tower
2 under a twenty-year lease. Visiting the brokerage and investment
firm's offices and cafeterias, one invariably found them spotlessly
maintained. But on adjacent floors, particularly those with multiple
tenants, the paint was dingy, the carpets were stained, fixtures re-
mained broken, and burned-out fluorescent lights went unreplaced, as
did discolored ceiling tiles. And the listing of a company on the direc-
tory did not reliably indicate that a company was still there.

And who indeed was there, inhabiting the self-proclaimed heart of
world trade? In 1966, as the PA was bulldozing Radio Row, the City
Planning Commission reported that "the prime objective of the WTC is
to simplify and expand international trade by centralizing and consoli-
dating within the Center essential world trade services and activi-
ties.... The Center will contain only government agencies and private
firms which play a part in international marketing and in the adminis-
trative processing of world trade. " Yet according to its own
1993 occupancy survey, the Port Authority found that trade service and
import-export tenants accounted for only 5 percent of its leases.

The Port Authority closed out the 1990s with a stream of press re-
leases announcing the rental of unimaginably huge quantities of trade
center office space to "cutting-edge" firms like Sun Microsystems. Yet
around the complex a million square feet stood empty, and the build-
ings originally intended as great catalyzing chambers of world trade
were, by degrees, transforming into a kind of disjunctive real estate
layer-cake. One story above the carpeted, wood-paneled offices of a
Japanese securities firm, a group of artists filled bare walls with boldly
colored images and hung sculptures from the exposed ceiling girders of
a vast echoing cavern. As part of a Lower Manhattan Cultural Council
program that turned some of the vacant space in the towers over to
artists rent-free, 40,000 square feet of concrete floor lay paint-
spattered and strewn with the raw materials of a creative urge that has
never been easily reconciled with the imperatives of a bottom line.


On page 204, Eric Darton mentions what is defined as 'the modest economy boost'
of the WTC1993 bombings (I kid you not!) which allowed to relocate
350 bombed-out trade center tenants into vacant office space nearby...


from p. 204

In January 1996, Governor Pataki announced that he was moving
the trade center's last state tenant, the governor's office itself, to cheaper,
more convenient space in midtown.

ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE

The February 1993 blast in the basement of the World Trade Center
killed 6 people, injured 1,000 others, displaced 50,000 workers, and
threw 900 Vista Hotel and Windows on the World employees out of
work, but it also provided a modest boost for the regional economy.
This, at any rate, was the conclusion the Port Authority came to in an
April 1993 report released six weeks after the bombing.

(...)

For the agency, this silver lining was due in part to the ease with
which the 350 bombed-out trade center tenants could be moved into
abundant vacant office space nearby. Breathing an almost palpable
sigh of relief, then-PA chair Richard Leone noted that relocating ten-
ants would have been far more protracted and expensive had the ex-
plosion occurred in the boom year of 1985.



In other words, may I tentatively presume that the 1993 bombings helped scare the sh#t out of the last remaining WTC tenants and make them get the hell outta there? You should also know that the official line (post-2001) was that "in September 2001 the WTC towers were at 95% capacity and had 400 tenants". Could that possibly have been a ...ehrm...a lie? Well, "95%" cannot be the truth anyway - since even Wikipedia lists a large number of completely empty floors.

In any case, the material in Darton's book written in 1999 informs us that:

- After the 1993 bombings, 50,000 workers were displaced and 350 tenants were relocated outside the WTC.
- At the end of the nineties, " a stream of press releases announced the rental of unimaginably huge quantities of trade center office space."

So, this begs the question: Could they possibly have "VIRTUALLY re-populated" the WTC towers - with a string of phony press releases?
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #17 - 09/14/12 at 07:42:59
 
After 3 days of roughly 30 minute intervals, I can say I watched the whole video Mecit.

I'd just rather PM you or whatever. Innately too. No point in even bringing this up really.

Unfortunately, done is done and we can't go back. 
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #18 - 09/24/12 at 12:49:19
 
Quote:
First up all I am sorry for those people who lost their families and relatives in this accident. It was a disaster on us. And no can forget that and it is not easy to forget for years and years.


Ban this faggot.


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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #19 - 09/29/12 at 00:48:18
 
It's probably a good thing I didn't see this thread earlier.  One pops up on TMA almost every year, if not every year, and whenever I've seen it I've always felt duty bound to piss in the eyes of the morons who back conspiracy theories.  

What the hell though, I've started so I'll say it again.  Those who believe in conspiracy theories like the 9/11 one (or any of the mega others like it out there, i.e. moon landings, illuminati, whatever) fall into two categories, namely the “stupid and gullible” and the “pseudo intellectual.”  For simplicities sake it’s easier to just refer to both groups as “the retards.”

These theories survive for a few obvious reasons.  First is probably that we all grew up on way too much television and would prefer to believe the world is a much more complex, exciting and intricate place than it really is, and further, that we are one of the few who “gets it.”  

Second, the human brain is actually a pretty piss poor piece of machinery.   Yes, we can fake logic but really we’re a bunch of emotional saps prone to fallacious reasoning.  We think because it’s impossible to “prove a negative” when we throw out a shitty theory and no one can disprove it means we’re on to something.  

Sorry, wrong.  It just means you’re stupid.  Don’t feel bad though so are the other 7 billion people on this planet.  Though for most of us our stupid comes out in the form of buying a “as seen on TV” sponge that won’t mop anything up let alone our two year old’s piss, but your stupidity is to such a degree that you can ignore entire planes that run into buildings and pull missiles out of thin air . . . I suppose that makes you a little bit special but only because your stupidity is on such an unusually colossal level.  

Anyway, have a good night . . .
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #20 - 09/29/12 at 03:24:21
 
For those of you who don't like to read, let me break it down for you.


Mecit/IG's argument: Shows proof for his claims.

Kilrahi's argument: "YOU'RE ALL STOOPID"
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #21 - 09/29/12 at 04:25:13
 
Kilrgrn wrote on 09/29/12 at 03:24:21:
Mecit/IG's argument: Shows proof for his claims.
Kilrahi's argument: "YOU'RE ALL STOOPID"


Oh my god.

That's disappointing.

So, Kilrgrn, are you saying you believe the things they said?

Which part did you actually find compelling? Let me know and I'll show you why these types ideas are nothing but a disease on our society that impedes our ability to concentrate on things that really matter. The scientific community has refuted all of this stuff to the point where anyone who believes it or even brings it up with a straight face is considered a fool.
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #22 - 09/29/12 at 05:33:30
 
Quote:
Cropping the bullshit so you won't have to see it twice.

Anyway, have a good night . . .



Let's say that's indeed the case with us conspiracy nuts. What's the case with people like you who claim to know everything? I mean, what's the difference as in mentality? You're practically doing the same thing in the opposite direction. Why are you people that coward and stubborn when it comes to considering/thinking about another possibility? Ego? Self-righteousness? Bigotry? Why do you label everyone conspiracists whenever they say a different thing from what you say? You probably skipped the whole thread and just took a rough look and came to the conclusion that we're stupid. And we're stupid because we don't share the same thoughts as you.

If something like "you're stupid because I say so" is the best thing you can come up with to prove a very logical argument wrong, well, it's highly ironic that you're calling others stupid.

You're encouraged to debunk the material posted by me and Innately. Please, do so if you can.

Tip: Calling it conspiracy and/or calling us stupid won't help your case. Good luck.
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #23 - 09/29/12 at 06:12:28
 
Oh Stitches... I find it cute that your brother likes me enough to not attack me directly, but instead you come in. I was poking fun, merely pointing out the direction of the two arguments and that's what I saw.

Look, I don't know quite what to believe. I've watched the Footage of September Clues, and that was pretty believable. I am best friends with two "Conspiracy nuts", alright, one of them totally is, but the other one is level headed (Darkforce). I always question everything and think for myself. If anything, what I believe is that the footage was doctored in some way. It's 7am, not going any further than that right now.

Love you Kil and Stiches. Smoochies.
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #24 - 09/29/12 at 08:59:30
 
Mecit wrote on 09/29/12 at 05:33:30:
Let's say that's indeed the case with us conspiracy nuts. What's the case with people like you who claim to know everything? I mean, what's the difference as in mentality? You're practically doing the same thing in the opposite direction. Why are you people that coward and stubborn when it comes to considering/thinking about another possibility? Ego? Self-righteousness? Bigotry?[/i]


Well, keep in mind I said we were ALL stupid, but that most of us limit our stupid to less spectacular examples.

Still, I was harsh and I'm not going to deny it.  I realize it must seem "bigoted" (hell that word is the defense of any stupid opinion these days) to you, but unfortunately it's only because you are not aware of just how ridiculous you sound.  Worse than the creationist trying to argue against evolution (which is pretty bad) you are like the crazy man running in the night afraid of his shadow.  You are asking the night watchment to disprove your theory that your shadow isn't really caused by the lack of light, but is in fact a ghostly haunt from another realm that is going to drink your blood.  Then when he sits there flabbergasted and unwilling to deal with you directly you use that as proof that you have a point.  Do you see the holy shit factor in this analogy?  Yeah, that's you in this case.  I'm just being direct and telling you you reason like a crazy person.  

As for proving my case, I'm with the status quo.  The laws of debate and argument say it is not my job to prove the claim at this point, it is your job to
disprove it and then assert and prove your own claim
.


You haven't done so.

I'm more than willing to have a throw down with you, it'll be fun.  

Both of you are essentially arguing that the sun doesn't exist and the light we see every day is some government official holding a flashlight.  

My message to you is good luck.  I probably will infer or directly say again that you are stupid.  I recognize this is mean and classically is a fallacy (ad hominem).   I do promise to let that be my only fallacious attack, but I tend to be okay with ad hominem in these conspiracy cases because in these particular cases I think it is factually true that you are stupid.  That isn’t proof you are wrong.  Even stupid people are right sometimes.  Calling you stupid is just a valid insult, even if it’s not a valid argument.

Finally, if we do have the argument I have two major rules.  They are:

1.  You can assert one paragraph of your bullshit at a time and we will discuss that one lousy assertion until we are both satisfied neither one of us has any more to say.  That's it, ONE.  Then when we are both agreed we have said all we can we will move on to your next lousy assertion.  This will prevent the common message board "shit attack" that people arguing dumb stuff often do.  Basically, this is where you take a shot gun to a page and just hope to wear down your opponent with your endless bullshit.

2.  You cannot do a lousy "link attack."  This is supposed to be YOU arguing.  You must restate your claims that you have gleaned from other sources, not plagiarize them endlessly.  When I ask for your source, yes, give your link, but you can't just post a link on a page and say, "Prove this link wrong."  That's bullshit and it's not going to happen.


If you're ready have at it and state your first one paragraph claim.  
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #25 - 09/29/12 at 09:28:58
 
Kilrgrn wrote on 09/29/12 at 06:12:28:
Oh Stitches... I find it cute that your brother likes me enough to not attack me directly

That response was not coordinated in any way. I was talking with Kilrahi last night and mocked the things I read in this thread a few days ago, and he said he might post. I happened to have a sleepless night, so looked to see what he said.

Kilrgrn wrote on 09/29/12 at 06:12:28:
If anything, what I believe is that the footage was doctored in some way

If you're referring to some of the footage that was presented in this thread, please explain which footage so that we can examine it even more carefully. If you're referring to ALL of the footage from that day, I ask you to consider what that would mean. After the first plane hit the towers, EVERYBODY IN NEW YORK had their eyes on the towers in time to see the second plane hit. If you're saying that planes didn't hit the buildings on that day, then surely, we would expect to see about a hundred thousand people saying, "What the fuck. The footage shown on the news shows a plane, but I was there, and there wasn't one!" The approach and contact of the plane with the buildings is quite obvious on the news footage. Instead though, what we see is a very small number of people saying such things, which is exactly what we'd expect in a situation like this. SOME of them would just want attention. Others probably DID miss it. Maybe the woke up late that day. Hell, in a city that size, maybe there are a couple of people that didn't even know what the World Trade Center was and were looking at the Empire State Building. New York has TONS of people of all kinds in it. Some are smart, some are fucktards. Some were probably HIGH or drunk out of their minds or recovering from brain surgery by surgeons who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Others want to get everyone believing bullshit because they get a thrill out of it. Years ago, SCoLD posted a link to a doctored speech from JFK that he thought was about "secret societies" AKA the New World Order. The doctored version was edited together from a 20 min speech about the importance of national security with respect to the media and how they shouldn't report things that would breech national security. The doctored version cut out all important references to the actual topic though. You can still see the doctored version here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces
Funny, whoever doctored this speech fooled a ton of people. The video has over a million views and thousands of likes. If you wanna hear the real speech, it can be found here: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Ready-Reference/JFK-Speeches/The-President-an...
The people who publish the myth version of this speech will tell you that he gave this speech the night before he was assassinated in 1963. However, the actual speech was given in 1961.
Seriously, there are thousands of people out there who create this crap because they either get attention off it or even money in many cases. People love a scandal and love to hear juicy details about corruption.

So . . . the idea that all of the footage of planes hitting the buildings is fake would require SOOOOO many people to be involved in this mass conspiracy. Every journalist in New York with a camera would have been recording the buildings after the first plane hit. Surely, one of them would have footage of no plane. Do you think everyone with real footage was assassinated? HAHAHA Do you think everyone in the news agencies who was supposedly coached on what to say that day would really keep this bottled up all this time? AND all of the people who were running the news feeds? We would expect to see dozens who finally had a crisis of conscience.

Let me know what you think so far and we'll go from there.  Grin
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #26 - 09/29/12 at 09:31:34
 
I will also add another rule Stitches and I will follow if he chooses to stay and fight this out with me.

Namely, only one of us will reply to your paragraph at a time.  That way you aren't dealing with two assaults at once.  We'll make sure you can respond to each of us one at a time.  
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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #27 - 09/29/12 at 09:40:06
 
AND WE FINNALY HAVE A BRAWL!!!

I mean......a DISCUSSION.....ehhh hem...


"We think because it’s impossible to “prove a negative” when we throw out a shitty theory and no one can disprove it means we’re on to something."

I'm going caveman/ape and flinging poo. That's MY shitty theory!

I LOVE THROWING POO!!!!
 

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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #28 - 09/29/12 at 12:02:09
 
Whether by clever design or ignorance, Kilrahi, your sentiments convey the confinement of all parties to a false dichotomy.  Within your model, there exists no room for critical analysis and objective examination.

Stitches - If you would like to debunk September Clues, I recommend starting with "September Clues Busted!", and familiarizing yourself with what has already been proven to be true of September Clues.  Again, just a suggestion.  I would also like to suggest reading the VicSim report, and the Madrid thread, here:  http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=428

Understanding the research at Cluesforum is akin to understanding proper biblical research---that is, exegesis vs. eisegesis.  In other words, Cluesforum researchers take it upon themselves to get meaning OUT of the evidence, rather than putting meaning INTO the evidence.  

Edit:  I should mention that I will be at my girlfriend's place until Sunday evening and, as such, will not be able to partake in the festivities until said time.

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Re: 9/11 never forget
Reply #29 - 09/29/12 at 13:39:24
 
[TMA]InnatelyGestaltist wrote on 09/29/12 at 12:02:09:
Whether by clever design or ignorance, Kilrahi, your sentiments convey the confinement of all parties to a false dichotomy.  Within your model, there exists no room for critical analysis and objective examination.


Bull.  

Nothing about what I said prevents critical analysis.  In fact, it is the only way it can happen. 

Your first post broke the rules though by already referring to a link.  Confront with YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS, NOT LINKS if you wish to participate.

Enjoy your visit to your girlfriends.  I’m being genuine with that one . . . no hidden message or anything.  
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