Have you ever played Twisted Metal?  Did you like it?

I thought it was okay.  

HANG with me here.  I thought it was a fun short term distraction.  A good game that would last a few months.

UNTIL  we modified it.  You see, NONE OF THE CORE VETERANS HAVE EVER PLAYED TWISTED METAL THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED TO LONG TERM.  Team games?  That didn’t exist until TMHO, and yet that’s what we played and have played for OVER a decade with both TM2 and TMB.  We deserve the credit for realizing that was fun.  Not Singletrac, not Incognito, and not Eat Sleep Play.  WE did it FIRST.

So what’s my fuckin’ point?  My point is the fans deserve some credit for what makes a good Twisted Metal game, because we have tinkered with the game and figured out what that is.  Without us I firmly don’t believe there would be a TMPS3, at least, not in the current full blown capacity.  So we deserve some respect about the rules we have discovered . . .

AND ONE OF THE ONLY CONCEPTS THE FANBASE OF BOTH TM2 AND TMB HAVE BEEN UNITED ON IS THAT THE FULL HEALTH GAME RUN FUCKING SUCKS.

The reasons are obvious to anyone who has ever played a true competitive video game.  Do you see full healths littered about the levels in Street Fighter?  How about Tekken?  No?  What about Soul Calibur?  Still nothing eh?  Not even the wimpied down (but fun) Mortal Kombat?  Hmmmm . . . are there random healths in Starcraft?  I’m honestly asking because I don’t know, but my GUESS is that you have to earn your health back and it’s not through something you just aim for and drive that will respawn every few minutes.

Why is that?

It’s because when you FIRST play a game you are okay with dumb luck, because quite frankly, you SUCK.  You don’t know yet if you want to be competitive.  You’re JUST having fun.  However as you get good, as you start to CARE, suddenly you hate stupid dumb luck, and in regards to stupid dumb luck, the veterans realized very early on Twisted Metal was one of the worst offenders.

This is because it isn’t FUN AND COMPETITIVE to be having a true all out war with a person of equal skill and have it be decided by some random health they walked into.  It’s even LESS fun to be fighting someone who is clearly less skilled then you, spend a good three minutes whittling their health down as they turbo all over the level like a little wimpy coward, only to have them undo all your hard effort with ANOTHER damn health!



I am not kidding when I say I once played a 1 vs 1 in TMBO, first to three kills wins, that lasted OVER TWO HOURS!!!!  My damage done to my opponent was OVER TWENTY TIMES HIS TOTAL!!!  You know why he almost won?  He spent 90% of his time turboing to the healths!  It just plain sucks!  It’s not fun at all, and the more competitive you get at this game the more that aspect of gameplay will make you want to piss down someone’s throat!



Could it be that this game is somehow different?  That it won’t have this gameplay element that the veterans despise?  I DOUBT IT BECAUSE JAFFE HAS PRAISED THIS EXACT GAMEPLAY MECHANIC ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS.  He likes it!  Therefore, it’s hard for me to think it is somehow different in this game.

I don’t really blame him for liking it, and I’m not surprised.  Of course he likes it!  He’s a casual player!  He’ll play this new game for a few weeks and move on to another.  That’s no bash on him, he’s got things to do.

We’re hoping for MUCH more though, and it hurts for one of our biggest nuggets of knowledge to get so carelessly ignored.  They’re essentially saying, “Yeah, I get you think you know something about what you like, but you know what, we know better so don’t worry.”

Well hell.  They MIGHT know better.  They just might be that brilliant, but ONLY if something has drastically changed.  They’re playing some serious odds on this one.  As I said, THIS IS ONE OF THE CORE TENANNTS OF THE VETERAN TWISTED METAL FAITH.  

I am 31 years old.  I was and still am willing to forgive TMB and TM2 for a feature that doesn’t exist that they never thought of.   When we play these games, we drive AROUND them.  When we still accidentally hit them, we mine the hell out of ourselves.

I am not going to do that with the new game though.  You know why?  Because by now they should know better and to be honest being forced to do that is just damn annoying.  Plus, on top of that, the build I played they weren’t even half as easy to spot as in previous games.  It was like hidden easter eggs and I’d crush them without even trying.  I hate that.

So my fingers are crossed.  My fingers are crossed that somehow, despite all the evidence I see, it will end up being fun.  It’s POSSIBLE, because maybe the weapons really aren’t all that dodgeable.  That opens up other cans of worms, but hell, maybe it’ll mean healths are needed.  It’s also possible because maybe the healths are few and far between so they are RARELY game changers therefore I’ll rarely want to kill somebody.  It’s also possible because I don’t know every damn thing and there might be something I haven’t thought of.  It’s also possible somehow enough hardcore people will whine they’ll patch it in.  Hell, it’s a damn easy feature to add which is why it BUGS me they didn’t when they KNEW we wanted it.  I feel like a three year old calmly being told his parents know what’s best for him.  

IF it ends up being the same though . . . IF you end up with countless games won by fucktards and stupid damn dumb luck . . .  IF TMA is once again pushing to ban healths and drive around them to keep it long term fun, then rest assured this will not be a Twisted Metal that lasts in my PS3 for more than a few months.  

If I’m just a crotchety old man then more power to you guys ‘cause you’ll freaking eat this up.  

It does seem to be a slap in the face that the option was included in TMHO but omitted from this game. I remember hearing that unranked games would give the option, but apparently not. If there's some dynamic we don't know about that somehow remedies this health crisis, it'd be nice if it were announced or explained about now. For me, this doesn't ruin the game (yet), but I have facepalmed over this several times today already. This seems like Twisted Metal 101 to me.

Well said. Very sincere and I hope some people don't translate this as needless hate, because it really isn't.

I can rest assured tell you I would never have played TM ONLINE (Thats TM2PC AND TMBO folks!) for years on end, nor would all the others, had we allowed healths in our games. They were the only item in game that didn't really help the car combat experience. Why on earth would skill and damage work be punished. It was so backwards.

In essence: I approve!

ajaxthebetter wrote on 01/27/12 at 21:07:53:

All you are doing here is attempting to minimize the appearance of damage, all the while, ignoring the fact that the damage actually exists and could have been prevented.

ajaxthebetter wrote on 01/27/12 at 21:07:53:

We're giving a very specific criticism focused on a specific Twisted Metal trend. I liken your argument to saying, "You have no way of knowing you won't like jumping off a cliff and dying until you actually try it." It's possible David Jaffe himself could swoop down on a giant hawk and save my life before I hit the ground. I doubt it. Until there's reason to believe the trend is somehow changing, the criticism is valid and constructive, and anyone trying to join this debate should avoid turning this into a tedious debate about debating.

ajaxthebetter wrote on 01/27/12 at 21:07:53:

I don't see how this remedies the problem I outlined:
-Stitches- wrote on 01/27/12 at 17:36:20:

IF the scenario I outlined has significant potential to occur in the new game, then this WILL BE a detriment to the competitive dimension.

ajaxthebetter wrote on 01/27/12 at 22:13:07:


It was always round based play.  Round based play doens't remove the key problem.  The problem IS the healths.  All car combat stops whenever they appear because they give you such a huge advantage over your opponent.

Great post. I agree 100%. Twisted Metal 2 and Twisted Metal Black are very fun but without all the players playing by a specific rule set. The games have no balance and the competitive nature of it is lost to the few overpowered vehicles and health pickups.

Health isn't bad for single player or coop because the AI can't feel frustrated or cheated. In fact the AI is built to be defeated any game. Otherwise it's a practical joke not a game.

Online play is totally unforgiving and any advantage a player can have means a whole lot. Because high level players are often equally skilled and something as simple as even 10 health could change the entire outcome of the game.






Here is my issue with Health pickups. They are huge a reward for almost nothing.

Like if i got up to take a shit and i found a 100 dollar bill on the ground. I'd be so happy with that. But deep down i'd know i didn't earn that money. That if life was a competitive sport i just won a round by default. Still the happy part in me would not care. I think people get that happy sensation when they are healed. It's like some kind of imaginary karma/safety blanket.

I can get into health being a reward for playing well. That is awesome. That might even be the solution we all wanted. Because without any kind of health regeneration the game would probably be considered too difficult for mainstream gamers. Since no health = no mercy.

But to give people an idea of where at least i am coming from.

Imagine you are fighting a boss character in a game with limited weapons. What if in the middle of that fight  the boss character happened to bump into a health icon. Putting him at 50% health right after you dumped 75% of your arsenal on him.

Now you have to wait for weapons to respawn and do the whole damn thing over again while trying to not die your self.

Wouldn't that just piss you off?

There are no checkpoints in an online game so you are just fucked by the respawn timer. To me that is as bad as being spawn killed. It feels like no skill goes into that.

I mean i enjoy a good fight and i think little handicaps are good to encourage new players to play. But man i just can't stand having a perfectly executed attack wasted because the health in that particular area respawned.

No way i'm going to play random Last Man Standing games with health in there. That is way to frustrating for me. It's anti fun. Which sucks because i love Last Man Standing. But health just makes that mode frustrating as the top players don't necessarily need to be good at the game. They just need to know where the health and turbo are and have a general idea of when they will respawn. Which is not too difficult when you are hoarding health.








Still way more realistic and fun then getting shot in the face in Call of Duty and totally recovering after taking a deep breath.

I just hate it when an online game holds players hands and the penalties for taking damage and being hit are negligible due to health recovery being part of the design of the game.

All that does is punish skilled players in my opinion. Which is great for people learning the game. But not so great for people who want to compete.

At least if we hate it. We can simply create TMA rooms and kick people who grab health.

I'm not passing judgment on the new game or anything. That would be impossible considering i have not played it. But if you get hit in the face with an ironing board after opening 5 different closets. It's hard to blame a person for being cautious of the 6th one.

That one guy wrote on 01/27/12 at 22:45:26:



How the fuck do you know what ESP is going to do?

We are simply expressing our distaste for the lack of an option for switching healths off. You are straight out claiming what ESP wants to do.

I'd imagine they want a week off right now more then they want to patch the game. I can't assume anything more then that and i don't think anyone else can.

But they do read TMA and i'd feel like an ass if i didn't at least mention what i felt was wrong. Do i think they are going to custom tune the game to my personal liking? No. That would be stupid.

I've played plenty of competitive games with health pick ups, like Unreal Tournament or Quake, it just added another element to the game, it was risk versus reward, do I try and save the health for when I need it or grab it before my opponent to keep him from getting it.

And as long as the health is statically placed, I don't really see how it's random dumb luck, you know where it is, your opponent does, should that be taken into account on your part?

Now I mean no disrespect, and I respect the way you guys choose to play the game, but I fail to see how health will completely break a game, never stopped Quake con or anything like that. My impression is that...TM half part combat, half resource management and part of resource management is watching spawns and keeping track of that.