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TMBO rules and rethinking old ways. (Read 54885 times)
RoaDiE
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TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
05/02/11 at 19:35:03
 
So with the resurgence of Twisted Metal Black Online we have to address the elephant in the room. OLD RULES we adhered to years and years ago. Stuff like banning/taming cars and limiting specials since some cars were obviously way better... but at same time we did help kill interest in the game for a lot of people. I want to her opinions on what you guys think? Im ok with some but not others.

In TM2PC we banned a metric ton of things but eventually we realized the error of our ways and simply allowed practically everything and balanced teams/car picks to accommodate.


Healths in Last Man Standing games - Environment attacks on all levels - Those I am 100% ok with being banned.

Cars however, I would like to see all of them untamed and used to fullest extent, with maybe one or two exceptions and the stipulation that we are using them in balanced gameplay terms... meaning that in team games we can make sure if one side has a good car, other side will as well. Player skill can also be taken into account. Good player with juice car on one team is mirrored by other team's top player picking a juice car of equivalency. Same could be done for team's worst player. Doesn't matter. I dont want to see teams with two uber cars and other team with none whatsoever.

Axel - How about we allow him to use his special weapon (shockwave) against larger cars only? The cars that aren't hurt by the rolling ball special; Manslaughter, Darkside, Minion. And don't use the special in giant groups of people. A bit of honor towards not doing massive splash damage.

Crazy 8 max dmg, Warthog, and Shadow, Junkyard Dog, and Outlaw all use as intended.

Roadkill I think im ok with him using Special Hold, Special Canceling, and Special Silencing. Mind you I only know how to cancel the special.

Of course you could use the tamed version if you want. But the option should definitely be there for full untamed juice Smiley

Thoughts?
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #1 - 05/02/11 at 19:36:48
 
In all due respect, if a good C8 player was allowed to use a full special, wouldn't that leave no chance for some of the new guys to try and pick up the game?

I mean that in the sense that, even if you balanced teams according top players and vehicles, I don't want to be running from you all game because I'm afraid of your C8.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #2 - 05/02/11 at 19:42:33
 
Right, we wouldn't want a top player using C8 with max damage against a new player for obvious reason of being overpowered lol. And if a top player had the juice cars in team games they would have to not pick on weakest link all time. A bit of honor amongst players towards when to use and when not to use. Lets say the teams are slightly in favor of one team winning over the other in terms of player skills. The one with less skills gets slightly better cars? Juice should be allowed, but not completely removed from game like we do so many years ago. I mean we outright banned cars and tamed others so they really never got used. Killed replayability.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #3 - 05/02/11 at 19:49:35
 
I think the only rule that matters is "no health" in a game that focuses on survival. Everything else ought to remain as "defaults.

If you're good, you should be able to utilize whatever the game has to offer and come up with a way to overcome whatever your opponent brings.

Are the TMBO servers up again or something? And how active are they? I'd probably like to try them this summer or something, once Socom 4 dies down some.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #4 - 05/02/11 at 19:59:36
 
Quote:
I think the only rule that matters is "no health" in a game that focuses on survival. Everything else ought to remain as "defaults.

If you're good, you should be able to utilize whatever the game has to offer and come up with a way to overcome whatever your opponent brings.

Are the TMBO servers up again or something? And how active are they? I'd probably like to try them this summer or something, once Socom 4 dies down some.


Do you live under a rock how many times have I said to you that we use Xlink Kai to play the game.

While I agree playing at default is fun... some games are uber unbalanced, TMBO being one of them. You are naive because you havent seen just how fucking good some cars are and how shit others are. Where is the fun and skill of completely raping people with using the cheapest easiest tactics?

PS: This thread wasnt intended for people not playing TMBO. Basically asking older players returning what they think Smiley
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #5 - 05/02/11 at 20:10:05
 
RoaDiE wrote on 05/02/11 at 19:59:36:
Do you live under a rock how many times have I said to you that we use Xlink Kai to play the game.

While I agree playing at default is fun... some games are uber unbalanced, TMBO being one of them. You are naive because you havent seen just how fucking good some cars are and how shit others are. Where is the fun and skill of completely raping people with using the cheapest easiest tactics?

PS: This thread wasnt intended for people not playing TMBO. Basically asking older players returning what they think Smiley

I'll leave then, sorry to interrupt... Back to that rock of mine, I go!
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #6 - 05/02/11 at 23:23:11
 
I'm ok with banning healths for lms...some of the environs I wouldnt mind coming back into play...powerplant, junkyard...mini city is iffy...if that chopper locks on to you - its pretty much over if you're caught out in the center.

I like the idea of allowing axel shockwaves against bigger cars - I think that is legit

Untame Outlaw, shadow
C8 is a different story - his max range is cheap IMO - I think he's plenty dirty with his regular non max attack
warty I think should still be banned - that special does too much damage and comes back way to fast.

I mean, we could try it and see, and worse case scenario, we just go back and retune/tame certain features.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #7 - 05/02/11 at 23:35:24
 
yeah we can try some of these things. and i agree C8 with regular shocks is good.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #8 - 05/02/11 at 23:37:25
 
i know in tm2 there was like an 8 second grace period that newly spawned cars couldnt attack and other players couldnt attack newly spawned cars...is that case here? or not so much? I try not to instantly fire at cars when they've just respawned unless its a level like stadium or drive in
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #9 - 05/02/11 at 23:42:26
 
Not so much. I give a couple seconds grace period. It also isn't as big an issue in TMBO since you can't exactly one second kill someone after a freeze (which are easier to dodge). And not to mention its rare to have people spawn on top of one another.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #10 - 05/03/11 at 01:45:27
 
I had to weigh in here.  Even though I really am not involved in this new resurgance, my experience on this issue might help.  I am one of only a handful of people here who can say they only missed two months of TMBO's 54 month life cycle.  We knew a lot.  We really did.  just take a look at Venom who is clearly kickin' mega ass this go round, and I'm pretty sure the guy is rusty.  You should have seen him in 2007.

Very few of the "old night crew" are involved in this new attempt at TMBO.  Hell, I think only Venom or Darkforce can claim it. Magnum had mostly moved on for quite some time.  Martyrr played, but he really didn't join our team rooms.

So, if anyone is interested, here is what the old night crew (Myself, Stitches, Venom, Legend, Mito, Apocalypse, Kemmler, Terror Weapon, EA, Mikey . . . and I probably forgot a few other notables like Hi, but you get the point) discovered in the last few years, and especially the last few months, of TMBO:

OTHER THAN NO HEALTHS OR ENVIROS IN LMS MODE in many many ways, many of the TMA rules just plain sucked, and worse, they damaged some of the best parts of what made TMBO fun.  In some ways they really really really messed up an awesome game.  

The biggest mistake was net damage.  Net damage convinced all of TMA that big cars sucked.  They didn't suck.  Manslaughter could mop the floor with a whole room, and Darkside would make almost everyone her bitch, but the problem was net damage made armor irrelevant, and so suddenly big cars blew chunks.

Then you have the problem of nerfing some of the coolest cars in the game.  Axel, C8, Shadow, Outlaw - they were all nerfed in an effort to balance for FFA or one on one.

The thing is that is a joke.  The game was too imbalanced to ever balance for FFA, or one on one, and that's why to this day I don't think it's worth playing if FFA is what you want to do.  TEAM games is where TMBO shines, and it's what kept the night crew coming back year after year.  

IF you are playing team games who gives a flying frak about uber powered cars?  TM2 had similar issues.  It's cars aren't really balanced at all, but none of the TM2 crowd cared because in team games, as long as you carefully balance out the teams (i.e. if one team has a full bloody Axel then give the other team a C8 and a Shadow) no one cares and all the cool cars remain cool cars.

So that's what we learned.  The last few weeks of the game we finally just decided to let any car go FULL POWERED as long as each team was carefully balanced, and I'll be damned it was so much fun.

Then they pulled the plug on the server.  Damn it to hell . . .

I realize this might sound like pissing on the sacred laws of really old school thinking, but trust me.  We did it, it rocked. The only car we never really figured out what to do with was Warthog because, sadly, he is such a frickin' blow torch that in team games no matter how hard you try even your own team ends up a bunch of toasted marshmellows.  

Edit:  Really, I wish I could get accross how much fun it was.  My first two years of TMBO were spent accusing other people of being cheap.  It seemed to be what most of us did all the time.  The final years of TMBO we didn't allow any of that garbage.  We had a handful of rules - no healths, no respawns - and that's about it.

People gas canned you through the floors.  We satellite shot you through ship's ceiling.  You'd get Shadow or Junkyard bombed from accross a level.  You'd get coned by Sweetooth as he jumped off a skyscraper.

By not giving a shit about what moves were allowed and what weren't, we all got a chance to shine and shine big.  It was amazing all the creative things that could happen and did happen.  You'd get double frozen because people timed it through the cheap shot (some got so mad at this move they quit playing but those who remained found the way to counter it, and we were always glad we didn't ban it).  Attack, counter, attack again . . . it was so damn creative because people were allowed to be creative. 

I miss it.    Cry
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #11 - 05/03/11 at 10:07:20
 
Yep you pretty much summed it up perfectly. TMA kind of helped put the game into a funk and really neutered the game instead of working around flaws and finding better solutions. If the teams are balanced with car picks what does it matter... its an added spice that really brings out new fun and creative thinking. I did know the last few weeks you guys chose to do a TM2PC approach, and obv as you said the results were excellent. Sucks about servers happening right when the endeavor took place...

Glad you replied since you have first hand experience with what I'm talking about. Appreciated.

And despite most of us not being the ones who played the game in the latter years all the time, we are the ones here now Smiley Mito works a ton and smokes a lot of weed so his time is very finite. Id be thrilled if more old schoolers came out of the woodwork.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #12 - 05/03/11 at 16:29:53
 
I always thought that making new rules was bad for the game, and TMA was bringing TMBO down by doing so.  Good to hear everyone else is starting to have some hindsight.  I know I have made many people rage-quit because I would Roadkill or C8 them without nerfing myself.  I did play by TMA rules once in a while just to play with you guys, but most of the time I just went ahead and owned randoms 1v1 with anyone I could, most of the time I did mirror matches for perfect 1v1 balance.

I am just glad that TMPS3 will have patches and full support, so we won't have to create our own rules or nerf any particular playstyle or weapon.  Some things needed to be nerfed, no doubt, but limiting every car in a particular way seemed like huge overkill, IMO.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #13 - 05/05/11 at 11:52:04
 
If I'm coming back to play this, in all honesty, I don't give a shit if it's no holds barred. Health is the only thing that truly imbalances the game. If we let the lid off things, so be it. We all have tons of experience with TMBO under our belts and I doubt anyone cares about winning (At least I hope not). We were young, stupid and competitive when we started playing. I'm hoping things have changed for all our sake.
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Re: TMBO rules and rethinking old ways.
Reply #14 - 05/05/11 at 22:39:28
 
Well, what's the verdict?  I'm a Grimm/Shadow/Axel/Spectre, and I really don't mind running a nerfed Axel at all---also totally fine with a slightly nerfed Axel versus bigs and non-cluster-fucks.  Shadow, on the other hand, is a different story to me, because full-stage Specials aren't exactly brain-dead easy.  I'm somewhat on the fence about Health pickups, because I really don't care---it can be fun in both cases, just different.  As for Env's, they never bothered me at all.  What are the rules on Shields?  Totally fine?

If we can come together and make a decision as to how we're going play, I'm 100% down with getting hardcore again.  I'm pretty much completely set up with Kai, and I will be testing TMBO tonight at around 1 a.m.-ish, EST.  I imagine it's just like anything else:  make static IP, forward ports, presto.  



edit:  When I logged on, my saved username was Rhymz With Duck.  Anyone remember that name?  Lol.  What the hell kind of name is that?
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