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TM 1+2 Modding thread (Read 159190 times)
Road-Kill_3197
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #675 - 02/21/18 at 09:22:25
 
†Adonael wrote on 02/21/18 at 04:36:06:
I don't think it would ever be possible to make that engine handle 100+ people.

Also think that gameplay style wouldn't work with twisted metal at all. I don't get the craze with this battle royal junk.

And yeah, it's junk.


I agree, and to be quite frank I think TM only works online IMO with 8 player max multiplayer with teams of 4v4.

This sounds silly, but I am sure Adonael would agree with me.

I figured this out recently after playing TMBO with him Spag, and many others, and it also showed me why TMX's multiplayer felt too chaotic and lacked coordination. Thats because they handled it like a modern day online shooter and didn't take into consideration that you play as cars, cars that move and maneuver around maps much differently than playing as a person in a FPS.

There is too much to get into what goes into balancing Twisted metal for online play, and honestly I don't feel I am the guy to talk to to lay that foundation down 100%, but I can tell you is it will not work with a map full of players, it's just not that kind of game.

Oh great, I started a new page...I hate doing that...

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tmfan89
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #676 - 02/21/18 at 10:38:02
 
Road-Kill_3197 wrote on 02/21/18 at 09:22:25:
I agree, and to be quite frank I think TM only works online IMO with 8 player max multiplayer with teams of 4v4.

This sounds silly, but I am sure Adonael would agree with me.

I figured this out recently after playing TMBO with him Spag, and many others, and it also showed me why TMX's multiplayer felt too chaotic and lacked coordination. Thats because they handled it like a modern day online shooter and didn't take into consideration that you play as cars, cars that move and maneuver around maps much differently than playing as a person in a FPS.

There is too much to get into what goes into balancing Twisted metal for online play, and honestly I don't feel I am the guy to talk to to lay that foundation down 100%, but I can tell you is it will not work with a map full of players, it's just not that kind of game.

Oh great, I started a new page...I hate doing that...



I think map size is also a big factor. In TMX if you were in a big map with 16 players it felt fine, chaotic at times but in a good way. There was plenty of room to maneuver and you could get away from the chaos. But in a smaller map with more than 5 or 6 players, it was just too much going on.
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Malefactor
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #677 - 02/21/18 at 17:21:29
 
tmfan89 wrote on 02/21/18 at 10:38:02:
I think map size is also a big factor. In TMX if you were in a big map with 16 players it felt fine, chaotic at times but in a good way. There was plenty of room to maneuver and you could get away from the chaos. But in a smaller map with more than 5 or 6 players, it was just too much going on.


I agree with the other two.  TMX suffered from the same problems Black did in large levels, at least in team LMS.

True, if you have respawns it mitigates it, but then it tends to make the matches lose their Twisted Metal feel (after all, it's a "to the death" concept). At least for me, endless lives never hit the spot.

The problem is if you have a huge level, and half the cars get eliminated, suddenly there are huge gaps in gameplay as cars run from each other, run to find each other, etc. Prison Passage was an amazing single player level, but in multiplayer it was just MISERABLE. Same goes for Sunnydale or Sunny Hell or whatever TMX's level was. To say nothing of that God awful Diablo Pass.

Now, MAYBE if, as cars were eliminated, the level actually reduced in scope and size.  That MIGHT make it work, and could be interesting.

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Marltoro
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #678 - 02/21/18 at 17:38:49
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/21/18 at 17:21:29:
I agree with the other two.  TMX suffered from the same problems Black did in large levels, at least in team LMS.

True, if you have respawns it mitigates it, but then it tends to make the matches lose their Twisted Metal feel (after all, it's a "to the death" concept). At least for me, endless lives never hit the spot.

The problem is if you have a huge level, and half the cars get eliminated, suddenly there are huge gaps in gameplay as cars run from each other, run to find each other, etc. Prison Passage was an amazing single player level, but in multiplayer it was just MISERABLE. Same goes for Sunnydale or Sunny Hell or whatever TMX's level was. To say nothing of that God awful Diablo Pass.

Now, MAYBE if, as cars were eliminated, the level actually reduced in scope and size.  That MIGHT make it work, and could be interesting.



You know what sucks? Many games actually become worse with extremely large levels, but "this game is bigger than the last!" is such a major selling point. Even if it hurts the game, publishers gotta get that selling point. I hope if they do make another TM then they keep the levels a reasonable size.

Back in the PS2 era, I remember advertisements for Socom III discussing how the maps were bigger and had vehicles. So half the game was just driving around looking for someone to kill. It really sucked

Even the first level I made for TM2 ended up being too big. The canyon level I'm working on now is much smaller but I think it's far superior than the first map.

I'm not sure when the map editor will be ready. I've had to change some things around as I learned more about the DPC file format. But on the plus side, you'll be able to create billboards (like the exploding trees in Paris) that explode when you wreck into them.
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TWISTEDCREECH96
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #679 - 02/22/18 at 13:04:25
 
On Diablo Pass full map, everyone fights on the bridge, it is so chaotic.
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #680 - 02/22/18 at 13:54:20
 
Manta Ray wrote on 02/20/18 at 04:24:32:
Yeah, I hear you. I'm interested in what massive GTA style maps would play like in this game..is there a way to program something similar to the mechanics of a game like PUBG or Fortnite? I'm guessing scripted events and game altering mechanics would be out of the question unless we find someone who can really break open the code.

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tmfan89
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #681 - 02/22/18 at 15:18:16
 
Malefactor wrote on 02/21/18 at 17:21:29:
I agree with the other two.  TMX suffered from the same problems Black did in large levels, at least in team LMS.

True, if you have respawns it mitigates it, but then it tends to make the matches lose their Twisted Metal feel (after all, it's a "to the death" concept). At least for me, endless lives never hit the spot.

The problem is if you have a huge level, and half the cars get eliminated, suddenly there are huge gaps in gameplay as cars run from each other, run to find each other, etc. Prison Passage was an amazing single player level, but in multiplayer it was just MISERABLE. Same goes for Sunnydale or Sunny Hell or whatever TMX's level was. To say nothing of that God awful Diablo Pass.

Now, MAYBE if, as cars were eliminated, the level actually reduced in scope and size.  That MIGHT make it work, and could be interesting.



Certain levels had these choke points that really gathered players into smaller areas (another poster mentioned the bridge on Diablos pass) but other levels that were more well rounded like Metro Square and Sunsprings really did a good job of having several areas where combat could convene and it had good outlet points where you could escape and chases could occur. If you had 12-16 players on some of the bigger maps it worked.

The smaller variants also made it so that if you had less people you could pick a more closed in map. The problem was that people would pick the mid-sized maps and jam way too many players and it just became a clusterfuck. I actually didn't mind the clusterfuck now and again but it was nothing more than some cheap fun. If you got a good sized map with the right amount of players I think the game worked.
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tmfan89
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #682 - 02/22/18 at 15:35:53
 
Marltoro wrote on 02/21/18 at 17:38:49:
You know what sucks? Many games actually become worse with extremely large levels, but "this game is bigger than the last!" is such a major selling point. Even if it hurts the game, publishers gotta get that selling point. I hope if they do make another TM then they keep the levels a reasonable size.

Back in the PS2 era, I remember advertisements for Socom III discussing how the maps were bigger and had vehicles. So half the game was just driving around looking for someone to kill. It really sucked

Even the first level I made for TM2 ended up being too big. The canyon level I'm working on now is much smaller but I think it's far superior than the first map.

I'm not sure when the map editor will be ready. I've had to change some things around as I learned more about the DPC file format. But on the plus side, you'll be able to create billboards (like the exploding trees in Paris) that explode when you wreck into them.


GTA really made the whole bigger (even if there isn't a lot to do) is better. Just having bigger areas was seen as a feature sadly. I thought the levels in TMX were well designed for the number of players. Large variants tended to work well with 12-16 players, middle-sized variants worked well with 5-8 players, and smaller variants worked well with 4 or less players.

From what I remember I think that they had some restrictions in ranked games with how many players could play on certain sized maps. But I am not sure if those caps were properly balanced or managed. But I thought a lof of the levels and their variants were well designed and the variants made it so that you could play the maps with all sorts of player sizes.
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Manta Ray
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #683 - 02/23/18 at 05:57:45
 
Ripzsaur wrote on 02/22/18 at 13:54:20:

See! I know it would work..the problem I have with PUBG is everything moves SO SLOW.
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #684 - 02/25/18 at 00:58:27
 
Nearly there.

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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #685 - 02/25/18 at 05:38:02
 
That is looking awesome!
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tmfan89
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #686 - 02/25/18 at 13:05:21
 
Once these mods get fully up and running how could the community play it? I assume it just works off of the standard TM2 PC game.
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #687 - 02/25/18 at 13:23:55
 
tmfan89 wrote on 02/25/18 at 13:05:21:
Once these mods get fully up and running how could the community play it? I assume it just works off of the standard TM2 PC game.


You'd have to make sure everyone has the same level files basically. For levels with HD textures, everyone would need to use the patch I released with the toolkit. It only takes a second to patch it. The patch actually fixed an issue where my game would always crash if hardware acceleration was on.
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TWISTEDCREECH96
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #688 - 02/25/18 at 20:18:02
 
That is a beautiful map  Smiley
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Re: TM 1+2 Modding thread
Reply #689 - 02/25/18 at 22:43:15
 
TWISTEDCREECH96 wrote on 02/25/18 at 20:18:02:
That is a beautiful map  Smiley

Yeah once I get some better textures it made a huge difference. I may make a winter version.

Anyway, this map should be done some time next week.
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