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Future of Gaming... (Read 14908 times)
Pse7en
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Future of Gaming...
04/22/09 at 17:16:04
 
PART 1 of 2

For some reason, I have been thinking about this alot. And the future seems grim to me as far as being a gamer past the generation of PS3/X360. I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT i AM QUITTING GAMING AFTER THIS GENERATION. I am simply saying ill be more leniant with myself and not as quick to jump into the next generation past this one. Ill be doing more research and getting more feedback before i advance in my gaming investments towards the next generation. I mean, dont get me wrong. I feel very much privledged to be able to own a top notch PC, X360, PS3, Wii, and PSP. But when you take a breather to the world of gaming, you realize how crazy its gotten and how expensive it is to have it as a hobby.


Cost of Consoles and Games. This is one of the reasons that may restrict me from conintuing my gaming past this generation of consoles. First of all, i think its ridiculous to have to buy a console just to play certain games you enjoy. Soime people on TMA will buy a PS3 strictly got God Of War III a TMPS3 whenever it comes out. I mean hopefully you guys will get more use out of the PS3 than just a few games but, you see my point? And from what the rumors are saying, the consoles next generation are going to be even more expensive. And if the games are 60 bucks now, imagine what they will cost next generation. I heard that when x360 initially came out, some of the games were 70 bucks and they toned down the price because it was too steep. But now they know ppl will pay for a 60 dollar game, what stops them from upping the price to 70 or more. I mean i can imagine it will cost more to develop these next gen games. But only time will tell. I did some research and this is what it costs to make a 60 dollar game. I dont know if this is very accurate but it seems to be as close as I can find (correct me if this is wrong)

Net Sales= $61
Programming and Engineering $12
Manufacturing Costs, (NOT including Packaging) >$3
Gross Profit= $46
Corporate Costs: $.20
Retail : $ 12
Hardware Development < $.03
Distributor: $1
Licensing: $3
Market Development Fund: $3
Marketing: $4
Console owner fee: $7
Publisher Profit: $1
Income from operations= $14.77
Taxes (other expenses): $13.77
Net Profit= $1 (or so they say...)

Only “Programming and Engineering” ($12) and “Manufacturing Costs” ($3>) including any applicable overhead rate can be considered in the cost of goods sold. Everything else mentioned is periodic costs (expenses that follow profits).

So if it costs them around $41 to make a game, they have $20 before the other expenses, which gives them around a 33% margin to cover their other costs not related to manufacturing. In the end there’s no dispute the game needs to be sold for $61+ to cover everything, but not all of it is manufacturing costs.



My next argument is Politics/Religions. It wont be long before the politicians and rating boards get exactly what they want, and push for a more restrictive policy on game content. We are already seeing the effects. Maybe the USA isnt as bad as other countries, but we are getting there. Look at the AO rating. Its there, its there with a purpose, but still consoles refuse to market games with an AO rating. Whats the point of having the rating, if no one except PC games are going to market them? Why punish the consumer because of some stupid kids that ruin it for everyone. And i see more and more M rated games even getting toned down or delay the games. Look at Manhunt 2. Even the USA had a toned down version. And every time I check game news, someone kills someone else and blames video games. So its only a matter of time imo. Religions also look down on video games, saying it warps the christian mind creating a situation where the consumer will not be able to determine the difference between reality and gaming world. Yea so I am going to believe that a game like Dead Space is a reality.... ok. Sometimes i think the religious leaders and Politiicians share the same brain. Look at Jack Thomson. JT is known for being the anti-gamer. He claims he is only after violent video games and retailers allowing adult games to be purchased by minors. But its more realistic and evident, he just isnt a gamer at all, because his claims never make sense. His arguments contradict what he says hes fighting for. Yet, his presence (whether you believe it or not) seems to be affecting what others think about how video games are corrupt, no matter how outrageous the claim. Eventually, its going to bleed into a puddle of red flags that will change how content is released. And the ESRB has made some mistakes of their own that were made public so their confidence level has gone down.


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Pse7en
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #1 - 04/22/09 at 17:16:20
 
PART 2 of 2

Next Argument - game exclusives and multi port comparisions. This is one thing that really chaps my @$$. Its a curse to have  and own all consoles because you always have to do that little bit more of research to know who has the better version of the game. I remember buying Fallout 3 for the PS3 without checking the head to head on ign, and it was so buggy and kept freezing. Also, the game saves were constantly getting corrupted. So i brought it back and the guy at gamestop said yea its with that version (PS3 version of Fallout 3 so I just got the PC version which is what I should have done in the first place because its cheaper and my pc runs it perfectly and the mods are awesome. Also, what if you only had a PS3, you coudnt play Gears or L4D or even Halo3. Just a handful of great games no one should be missing out on. Then you have the PS3 exclusives. If you only own a X360, youll miss out on God of War 3, TMPS3, Warhawk, Resistance, Killzone, LBP,  and the list goes on. These companies must think we are made of money. Seroiusly. Most of the console games are on the PC anyways with better graphics, cheaper than console versions, have modding and custom capabilities. Only problem with PC games are the DRM protection…that’s another story.

Developers/Publishers.  Quality of Consoles and games have gone way down over the years.  PS1’s overheated, PS2’s broke down or stopped reading disks. And we all know the problems with the X360/PS3 hardware. Whats wrong with the quality of the hardware? These consoles should last forever! I still can play my dreamcast and Nintendo/SNES systems with minor issues considering how old they are, but the fact is I still have my originals. Perfect. Today we should be expecting better quality hardware. But why are we getting the opposite? Money problems? Time constraints? Laziness? Whatever the reason, they should be smart enough to know that fixing the problem before making it public would be better than having to go back and fix the issue. Or coming out with 10 versions of one console. I cant count how many versions and bundles of PS3 there are. And another sign of laziness or whatever it may be, backwards compatibility.  There is none. Big importance for me. I keep all my games so I would like to always have the option of going back to them whenever I wanted. I can go on and on with this topic but maybe later. Some of the best classics Killer Instinct, Legacy of Kain, Conker, don’t seem to be getting sequels or reboots anytime soon. What does that tell ya?

Ill be continuing my subscription to my gaming magazines and keep up to date with the gaming sites and will always be a gaming fan. But until things start working more for the consumer than they are now, I don’t see myself wanting the next next generation consoles anytime soon. Too expensive and not too sure if its worth the money right now to determine if this will be my last generation of console gaming for a while. It may end with thee current generation. We will have to see.

Flame away.


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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #2 - 04/22/09 at 18:29:16
 
If this is your last console cycle then you are a fucking quitter and never were a gamer. You are lying to yourself and everyone here when you say you arent going to buy any more consoles after this generation.

And complaining about how expensive it is is kinda weird coming from you because you are always talking about all these games and systems you buy on a weekly basis. Just stop buying all that crap. You strike me as the type of guy, and I could be wrong, who generally doesnt finish games because you have to have the hottest new toy and you get so backed up that you never really get your moneys worth out of everything. Plus you never play games with us online. I seem to remember you buying GTAs DLC but I never saw you in a game with us and thats just one example.

Just learn to economize your gaming. I certainly have as I agree that it has gotten to be an expensive habit. Maybe renting games or borrowing systems and shit from your friends and family would be the best route to go. Thats the route Ive taken. Theres no need to buy everything that comes out. Im spreading my purchases out over time by waiting until the price of the PS3 comes down and until there are plenty of games I want for it, renting games, and saving up money for later in the year for when I know a lot of good games I want are coming out. Im not a fan at all of paying 60 bucks for a game but I usually know the release date for any game I really want enough to buy months and months ahead of time so I usually save up the money or go put a few bucks down on it here and there.

My main problem with gaming really is that there is too MUCH of it. There are just so many good games to play these days, so many different people that I want to play different games with, so many games Ive yet to ever try, and not enough time in the world for half of it. Even though Im not doing shit half of the time I never feel like I can play everything I want to. Ive got two games sitting here right now from blockbuster that I rented 2 or 3 weeks ago and I havent even touched them.

Another thing about gaming that bothers me is how social and competitive its gotten. These arent bad things by any means but its like everytime I log onto Live I have fifty million different people trying to talk to me, inviting me to play different games, and I hate feeling like Im picking favorites or neglecting others because I want to do certain things at certain times. God forbid I log into Live to play a single player games. It just wont happen. If Im going to be playing a personal single player experience I generally have to just unplug my internet cord. Took me three days to play the last Fallout 3 DLC which was only 6 hours or so because I couldnt play it long before someone was inviting me to Halo 3, L4D, Gears or something else.

Then there is the fact that Im jumping from game to game and playing with different friends in a competitive setting and Im expected to always peform at the top of my game. I absolutely hate playing bad at Halo. Nothing is worse than getting my ass kicked in Halo but if I dont play often my skills go down and Halo is the most competitive game out there hands down. Then I play in the L4D league now so I have to play that with my teammates quite a bit and have to be willing to play a match at certain times, then I like playing Bad Company and I want to do really well at that, then I get invited to games of Gears and I just suck at that because I have no time to even practice so Im usually inclined to just pass because I dont want to be the weak link on someones team.

Then you have to stay up to speed on how games are being played online. Games like L4D arent hard to jump in and out of but people come up with new and better ways to play it all the time.

Sometimes I just feel like unplugging my internet cord and just saying fuck Live for a month or so so I can just enjoy doing some things how I want to when I want to and just go back to the old school days where gaming was strickly a personal thing that I did on my own at my own pace and didnt feel like I was always trying to stay ahead of some imaginary curve.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #3 - 04/22/09 at 18:45:48
 
I am not saying I am quitting. I am just saying that I wont be out to buy the consoles as fast as they come out. And whether or not I buy them right away will depend on the same track as what happened with these game consoles we have today. Will gaming prices go up? What it going to be quality of the games? Will it be worth paying 70, possibly 80 bucks per game?

And just because i am never on XBox live, doesnt mean I am not playing, nor does it mean I dont play at all or dont finish the games. It just means I am not online. And I am in a home right now that has 3 X360s and 2 ps3's . I could be playing with any one of those systems at any given time. I dont just buy the games and not play them. Thats completely wrong. Thats another reason I dont like this whole live thing. Everything is determined by achievements, the last time you logged in yada yada.

Ive completely changed as far as what and when I buy a game. I dont just buy anything anymore, and I do play what I buy. Left4Dead for instance, I play on the PC more than I play on the X360. I do alot more PC gaming than console gaming. Also, I play alot of lan games. And just because you dont see me online ddoesnt mean im not playing. I am just not online. Another problem i have with the online community. I wish I had more time or felt good enough physically to be able to spend more time to play online with you guys. Sometimes I dont feel good and sometimes i just dont have any time. Trust me I would love to play you guys more online, but things have been crazy lately.



I guess the point of this post, was not to say I am quitting. BUT, it is saying I wont be as quick to jump and flock to get these systems as fast as I was for this current generation. Like I said, its not quitting. Its biding my time. And I wanted to know what you guys think about it given all the things brought up. Sorry if that was misleading in anyway but i did not mean to imply i was quitting. I am not. I also wanted to make a point that the developers need to be more focused on the quality of games and game porting. I do agree with the rest of your post Xizor. Its a mixed community of fanboys and people online 23/7
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #4 - 04/22/09 at 21:17:41
 
If things are indeed becoming more expensive then PC gaming would be the way to go. I have no trouble downloading games for free and if you really need a key you can get one from the many websites that sell them for 50-75% less than in the stores. I saved quite a bit of money on games just buying keys. The down side will be the system requirements and the price of computer hardware. ONLive seems to be doing something about that problem but I still don't want to be renting games for $12 a week in the future.

I will buy a PS3 probably when TM comes out and I'm hoping it's at a reasonable price by then. I actually look forward to it because like the 360 I had the opportunity to play the console's back catalog for dirt cheap.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #5 - 04/23/09 at 04:11:43
 
Not to be a jerk or anything, but one of the first things I’d do if I were you to save money would be to only buy one copy of each game. This seems to me like you’re overreacting. There’s a middle ground between buying every console, and every half decent game on said console sometimes on several different consoles, and considering skipping an entire generation of gaming. For years I owned only one console each generation – I’d miss out on some exclusives, sure, but I’d get access to tons of awesome games and I didn’t have to spend an extra however many hundred dollars to play ‘em. You could wait until games have been out a while and the price has dropped, you could buy them used, you could rent them, you could buy one less console, etc. You have options. It’s possible they’ll spike the price another ten bucks, this next generation but I doubt it. Even if they did though, it’s lead to more big epic games (and of course it depends on the value of the dollar too). Developers and publishers need to make a profit in order to finance these massive teams that it takes to make games like GTA or GoW.

This leads me to another thing though– if they change their pricing structure, would it make sense to charge different prices based on the game? Like GTA 4 would cost more than a game that can be churned out every year with minor tweaks, like Dynasty Warriors, or maybe a new IP could cost less so they could get them into more homes. Maybe if Dead Space or Mirror’s Edge cost ten or twenty dollars less would get more people to buy them and recoup the costs anyway, as well as develop a fanbase for the IP so they could charge more for the sequel.

And on the whole “games are prosecuted” thing, it’s true it HAS been in the past, but things are better every year I’d say (barring the random games getting blamed for school shootings or whatever). More people know about and understand games now than ever before I believe. It takes a while for an art form to enter the public understanding; just like movies and music, it takes a while for people to get beyond “OH MY GOD, THIS IS HURTING OUR CHILDREN” to legitimately appreciating the medium.

And you know Jack Thompson is disbarred right?

What I am worried about is the casual games movement. If anything, we’ll get more, cheaper games that are less epic and have lower production values. I’ve said before that I think there is always room for those epic games, but this casual games movement bothers me.

And Xizor touched on this, but I don’t like the whole “competitive” crap either, but I come at it from a different perspective. What bothers me is people doing whatever it takes to win, people not playing the game how it’s meant to be played but just trying to rank higher on the leaderboards. And I know this isn’t what you were talking about, but I think achievements feed into that. When I read posts where people are talking about Gears in terms of how many points certain things give you, It doesn’t even sound like we’re talking about the same game. I’ve even noticed some people (in other games) running into firefights just to get as many kills / points as they can, ignoring any overarching strategy for victory. Or bitching about “kill stealing” in TEAM games. That’s the kind of crap that bothers me.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #6 - 04/23/09 at 06:30:50
 
what gets me is the online competition.. it feels like by the time I get a 360 and get on Live, I'll never catch any of those old skoolers
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #7 - 04/23/09 at 10:24:34
 
The fact of the matter, is that this generation of gaming. It's no longer about having fun. It's about being on top, being the one, accomplishing over others, and just an all out popularity contest. The previous generations, most specifically the 8-bit and 16-bit era. Their main focus and goal, was to have fun and enjoy the games the way they were meant to be. But that feeling is now long forgotten.

I will never respect online gaming as much because of how much of a group of assholes people can be on it. No I am not including the TM2PC community on this one. I'm talking in general. I've tried so hard to grasp on to online gaming. And everybody who I've played against that I've put my true experience to the test against. All turned up to be assholes. Now I just think it's completely pointless to be online to play. Not just assholes, but arrogant pricks.

I thought the real and true purpose of being a gamer, was to actually play games. Not because you're up to date with everyone.

In today's society and this country's economic structure destroyed, what makes these companies think we can afford all of this shit? While at the same time, everything else rides on your ass. It's just going to shrink your time off.

I probably will delay myself further and further as each generation passes. Never cared to be with everyone, never cared to have the latest consoles/handhelds, and never cared too much about having the best games. Only thing that mattered, is getting things you actually like, not what everyone else tells you.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #8 - 04/23/09 at 14:28:36
 
NightShade wrote on 04/23/09 at 04:11:43:
Not to be a jerk or anything, but one of the first things I’d do if I were you to save money would be to only buy one copy of each game. This seems to me like you’re overreacting. There’s a middle ground between buying every console, and every half decent game on said console sometimes on several different consoles, and considering skipping an entire generation of gaming. For years I owned only one console each generation – I’d miss out on some exclusives, sure, but I’d get access to tons of awesome games and I didn’t have to spend an extra however many hundred dollars to play ‘em. You could wait until games have been out a while and the price has dropped, you could buy them used, you could rent them, you could buy one less console, etc. You have options. It’s possible they’ll spike the price another ten bucks, this next generation but I doubt it. Even if they did though, it’s lead to more big epic games (and of course it depends on the value of the dollar too). Developers and publishers need to make a profit in order to finance these massive teams that it takes to make games like GTA or GoW.

This leads me to another thing though– if they change their pricing structure, would it make sense to charge different prices based on the game? Like GTA 4 would cost more than a game that can be churned out every year with minor tweaks, like Dynasty Warriors, or maybe a new IP could cost less so they could get them into more homes. Maybe if Dead Space or Mirror’s Edge cost ten or twenty dollars less would get more people to buy them and recoup the costs anyway, as well as develop a fanbase for the IP so they could charge more for the sequel.

And on the whole “games are prosecuted” thing, it’s true it HAS been in the past, but things are better every year I’d say (barring the random games getting blamed for school shootings or whatever). More people know about and understand games now than ever before I believe. It takes a while for an art form to enter the public understanding; just like movies and music, it takes a while for people to get beyond “OH MY GOD, THIS IS HURTING OUR CHILDREN” to legitimately appreciating the medium.

And you know Jack Thompson is disbarred right?

What I am worried about is the casual games movement. If anything, we’ll get more, cheaper games that are less epic and have lower production values. I’ve said before that I think there is always room for those epic games, but this casual games movement bothers me.

And Xizor touched on this, but I don’t like the whole “competitive” crap either, but I come at it from a different perspective. What bothers me is people doing whatever it takes to win, people not playing the game how it’s meant to be played but just trying to rank higher on the leaderboards. And I know this isn’t what you were talking about, but I think achievements feed into that. When I read posts where people are talking about Gears in terms of how many points certain things give you, It doesn’t even sound like we’re talking about the same game. I’ve even noticed some people (in other games) running into firefights just to get as many kills / points as they can, ignoring any overarching strategy for victory. Or bitching about “kill stealing” in TEAM games. That’s the kind of crap that bothers me.



Jack Thompson appealed his disbarrment. I think this is second time around too. Not only that, but hes got enough people backing him believe it or not, to make this whole disbarrment go away.


And like  everyone is saying, the online community is getting very competitive. One of the reasons i left WOW. It got too competitive. For the longest time, I wasnt online with xbox 360, i kept it off the net. . Sometimes i wonder.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #9 - 04/23/09 at 18:59:01
 
The whole competition bringing out the worst in people is a definite problem. People standbying, glitching, cheating, kill stealing, exploiting things within the game, basically anything to get ahead and then being an asshole on top of it all are HUGE problems. Ive found it depends on the game as well though.

Halo brings out the worst fucking annoying bastards Ive ever met in my entire life in any game. I generally just stay in a party chat with the people Im playing with so I dont ever have to hear a fucking word anyone says.

L4D on the other hand seems to have the coolest player base of any game Ive played in a long time. Ive never ran into asshole in that game and most of the people I meet are generally cool and work with you...when they have a mic of course, which is becoming a LOT more common because everyone just boots no mic-ers now. I even figured playing in a league some of the better teams would just talk shit but I havent ran into that...yet.

And I just know because even TMBO was this way, even amongst ourselves, that when the next TM comes out the online competition is going to be worse than ever. The never ending parade of shit talking will dominate the boards for years to come, and then along with that comes the bitching and complaining about how one TM was better than the other and how the ramming sucks.

"In today's society and this country's economic structure destroyed, what makes these companies think we can afford all of this shit? While at the same time, everything else rides on your ass. It's just going to shrink your time off." - Toasty

You would think that but the video game industry has been going strong all through this economic crisis. Hell if you think about it, just staying home and playing a good game is probably helpful financially.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #10 - 04/23/09 at 19:25:31
 
The reason why games today are so competitive is because of online. If online existed back when NES was the shit we would have seen the same thing. It's in our nature to be the best so it was bound to happen. They had NES competitions back in the 80's, you just didn't see it because you were too young. Come on doesn't anyone remember The Wiz?

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/7692

Most of the dicks online are usually under 17 and if I remember correctly these same douche bags were douche bags when I went through high school. Nothing has changed. Online capabilities have given these same assholes a different forum to be douches in and when you have nothing at stake but a screen name it's easy to hide behind the mic/text with no repercussions.
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #11 - 04/23/09 at 20:18:52
 
SynthR wrote on 04/23/09 at 19:25:31:
Most of the dicks online are usually under 17 and if I remember correctly these same douche bags were douche bags when I went through high school. Nothing has changed. Online capabilities have given these same assholes a different forum to be douches in and when you have nothing at stake but a screen name it's easy to hide behind the mic/text with no repercussions.


Quite fucking True...

[This part directed to toasty]


And like Xizor said, TMBO was mad fucking drama. People quit that game because of the competitive nature mixed with strong attitudes.

I agree though that the next TM will be even worse than before and we will see people at their absolute worst. The level of E-Drama insanity will sky rocket. If you aint got thick skin, then its gunna ruin the fun for ya. Only advice I got is to make friends, play with them, and fucken dont bother with the peeps you dont know.


[directed to P7 and americans!]

Ok now really shit aint THAT expensive. Why is it that Americans have the cheapest goods and still think shit is expensive?

You guys are so effin lucky to get games (and everything else in life) for 60 bucks a pop. Or consoles at REGULAR price. Canada and the rest of the world gets fucked.

You know how much PS3s costed at launch with 14.5% tax here? 800 dollars. Up until 2008 we paid 70 bucks for brand new games, then for a brief period we got the price down to 60... and now its back up again... N64 games sometimes ran as high as 80 dollars. Turok cost just that.

If anything I feel like im getting more bang for my buck these days than previous generations. A console such as a 360 is great value considering a PC of equivalent power would probably run you a lot more money. And it costs the same if not less than the N64 or any other console cost.

And PC quality has not improved either, its always been shitty. Ive had more PC problems than all my console issues combined and then multiplied by ten. Not to mention their is all the bullshit compatability issues for games, new drivers for every device, blah blah blah list goes on.

My only advice if you are concerned about prices and the cost of this hobby is to shop online and possibly buy less games and maybe rent more.

I literally have to shop around and be vigilant for deals because I like to play games when they come out and im not a big fan of waiting a year for them to POSSIBLY drop at retail stores. So I use ebay, import some games from the states, or just buy from someone offering a deal. Be thankful that your games don't cost 70 CDN bucks or 60 euros or 90 NZ/OZ Dollars or whatever other shit currency out there, or else you have to resort to the shit I have to put up with.

I would also consider selling some of your games. Resale value is potentially good on a ton of titles, ebay them and put the money towards new games.





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Posts: 2983
Ontario, Canada
Gender: male
Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #12 - 04/23/09 at 20:30:37
 
I know we've had this discussion before about the next Twisted Metal but like before I still agree. However, I won't be alone on this one. When I started TMBO I didn't know anyone. Now I have friendships with many of you here and if I don't feel like bothering with the drama I can completely avoid those players and still have friends to play with. As of right now I already have a mental list of returning players that I'll be avoiding.
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Pse7en
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #13 - 04/23/09 at 20:40:25
 
SynthR wrote on 04/23/09 at 20:30:37:
I know we've had this discussion before about the next Twisted Metal but like before I still agree. However, I won't be alone on this one. When I started TMBO I didn't know anyone. Now I have friendships with many of you here and if I don't feel like bothering with the drama I can completely avoid those players and still have friends to play with. As of right now I already have a mental list of returning players that I'll be avoiding.



We all do lol
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XIZOR
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Re: Future of Gaming...
Reply #14 - 04/23/09 at 22:51:50
 
SynthR wrote on 04/23/09 at 20:30:37:
I know we've had this discussion before about the next Twisted Metal but like before I still agree. However, I won't be alone on this one. When I started TMBO I didn't know anyone. Now I have friendships with many of you here and if I don't feel like bothering with the drama I can completely avoid those players and still have friends to play with. As of right now I already have a mental list of returning players that I'll be avoiding.


Fucking right. Highly doubt Ill be playing the next TM with a bunch of randoms and I wont be a new comer to TMA now like the TMBO days so I already pretty much know all the people Ill be playing the game with. Pretty much my 360 friends and TMA vets. People that arent assholes.

Im also hoping there wont be this big focus on one on one games this time around. They were fun and intense in TMBO but playing only that got old.
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