With Activision/Sony's remaster/remake of the Crash Trilogy being a success, and the slated to be remastered Medievil, how much of a chance could we have for a remaster of Twisted Metal 1 or 2? I mean, if Medievil can get one, TM is even more well known and profitable in the past for Sony. Out of all the PS1 games, I think TM2 holds up pretty well, as in not being super dated. Let's just hope they don't pick TMIII or 4  :o

They should do the same for its counterpart WarHawk. But overall, I believe it's fair for Sony to put this to work.

Before this post was even made, I had the idea of something called "Twisted Metal Maker", like Super Mario Maker, where you can create your own battlegrounds, vehicles, and assign weapons. You can base the gameplay off of either TM1, TM2, TMB, or TM2012.

I highly doubt it.

Medieval fans have been clamoring for a new one since the dawn of the internet and never got it.

Twisted metal had a new entry and Sony saw that as the worth of the franchise. Don't hold your breath.


You'll die.

Fish20 (Darth612) wrote on 02/03/18 at 06:08:14:

With Activision/Sony's remaster/remake of the Crash Trilogy being a success, and the slated to be remastered Medievil, how much of a chance could we have for a remaster of Twisted Metal 1 or 2? I mean, if Medievil can get one, TM is even more well known and profitable in the past for Sony. Out of all the PS1 games, I think TM2 holds up pretty well, as in not being super dated. Let's just hope they don't pick TMIII or 4  :o

We're almost to the point where we could remake the levels in TM2 with HD textures. We may be able to add custom cars at some point.

Who needs a remaster when TM2 modding tools are almost ready for PC. We've been working on some cool shit. Marltoro is a master craftsman haha.
Give it a little longer and TM2 is going to make a great comeback.

I agree with these guys here. This is where it's at.

†Adonael wrote on 02/04/18 at 03:38:40:

Medieval fans have been clamoring for a new one since the dawn of the internet and never got it.

Until now.

No, it won’t happen because TM:2012 killed and buried the series.

It’s an unjust world and you and I are fans of a perma *?!@#ed series.

*Passes tissue*

Malefactor wrote on 02/05/18 at 20:51:58:

No, it won’t happen because TM:2012 killed and buried the series. It’s an unjust world and you and I are fans of a perma *?!@#ed series. *Passes tissue*

Fuck Sony, we can just mod TM2. We even got HD textures working in TM2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDkPiW04G8E&t=1s

Woah, that stage video is pretty neat.  An amazing start to a good modded game.  Are you guys gonna be able to make new vehicles, too?

Ripzsaur wrote on 02/05/18 at 09:10:10:

Until now.

I must be psychic. Or the internet just really hates me.

Anyway, bottom line is Twisted metal probably won't be touched for a very long time due to the brand damage done with TMX and all the online bugs.

Basically what malfactor and I've already stated.

Plus with Marltoro's work we can keep twisted metal 2 fresh as long as people keep making content for it. That right there is all we really need.

I'm not too worried about new vehicles as I am levels. New arenas would really keep things fresh like it did with the old FPS community.

There's a reason people still stick around and play the old UT, Quakes, etc, etc.

Vlygar wrote on 02/11/18 at 19:39:57:

Woah, that stage video is pretty neat.  An amazing start to a good modded game.  Are you guys gonna be able to make new vehicles, too?

Right now we can only replace vehicle skins but some time in the future I'd like to be able to add cars to the game. But right now I'm 100% focused on the map editor. Even after the first release of the map editor I have to figure out other things like adding teleporters and other interactive objects found in levels.

Here's a nearly finished level modeled by Mr.SLaM. We've also added lighting effects since that video.

https://s14.postimg.org/jkjpn77q5/Egypt.png
https://s14.postimg.org/ii9j4s6y5/nile.png
https://s14.postimg.org/6t5jh2g25/Twisted_Metal_2_Screenshot_2018.01.22_-_20.44.15.85.png

Fish20 (Darth612) wrote on 02/03/18 at 06:08:14:

With Activision/Sony's remaster/remake of the Crash Trilogy being a success, and the slated to be remastered Medievil, how much of a chance could we have for a remaster of Twisted Metal 1 or 2? I mean, if Medievil can get one, TM is even more well known and profitable in the past for Sony. Out of all the PS1 games, I think TM2 holds up pretty well, as in not being super dated. Let's just hope they don't pick TMIII or 4  :o

A TM2 HD remaster is the only hope for a new TM game. TM2 was the best selling game of the series, PS1 remakes are popular and making money, and a TM2 remake is a fairly cheap project so you could sell 1 million copies at a modest price point and have it be profitable.

You could make a 15-20$ HD remake with online capabilities and I think you sell enough to make it profitable. Maybe if a TM2 remake sells well Sony dips their toe back into the series but banking on the nostalgia of a past game is the franchises only hope right now.

A new game is too risky for Sony but banking on an old successful game that could be done affordably and is much less of a risk. Do I think it will happen? I put the chances at 40%. How many more PS1 remasters could they do? And how many other PS1 games would be ahead of TM2?

But positively, Sony doesn't have that many PS1 first party games as popular as TM2. Crash they already did and Medievil is in the pipeline. TM2 is one of the most popular Sony first party games from that era. So I think it possible but not that likely.

tmfan89 wrote on 02/17/18 at 12:50:21:

A TM2 HD remaster is the only hope for a new TM game. TM2 was the best selling game of the series, PS1 remakes are popular and making money, and a TM2 remake is a fairly cheap project so you could sell 1 million copies at a modest price point and have it be profitable. You could make a 15-20$ HD remake with online capabilities and I think you sell enough to make it profitable. Maybe if a TM2 remake sells well Sony dips their toe back into the series but banking on the nostalgia of a past game is the franchises only hope right now. A new game is too risky for Sony but banking on an old successful game that could be done affordably and is much less of a risk. Do I think it will happen? I put the chances at 40%. How many more PS1 remasters could they do? And how many other PS1 games would be ahead of TM2? But positively, Sony doesn't have that many PS1 first party games as popular as TM2. Crash they already did and Medievil is in the pipeline. TM2 is one of the most popular Sony first party games from that era. So I think it possible but not that likely.

If Sony is going in the direction of remastering a classic TM game I don't think they should limit it to TM2 alone. The Crash Bandicoot remaster succeeds not only in the nostalgic level, but in being 3 games in 1. Would you rather buy say, a 20 dollar TM2 remaster, or buy a 40 dollar remaster with 3 remastered TM titles? I think a collection would work best but then you have to ask yourself what are the other games... me personally I think I would go with TM1, TM2 (with a TM2 PC style multiplayer), and TM Black Online (since the story version is already available on PSN). A multiplayer-centric collection would be amazing... TM1 would be something that could appeal to fans of 1 vs 1 and fighting games who find TM2/Black's online too chaotic.
I also think a remastered version of TM Small Brawl would be pretty cool. The game's biggest flaw was graphics, so technically that game could benefit the most from being redone.
Then there's TM3&4. I don't think there is enough demand in those being remastered. They weren't even  ps1 classics for PS3, but another potential strategy for Sony is to release a full priced 50-60 dollar game that had all 5 PS1 Twisted Metal games. They could also do the opposite and focus on TM Black, Head-On, and TM 2012 getting the remastered treatment and release that as a full priced game, but eh, that would be dumb.
There's a lot of ways they can go with a remaster but to me a multiplayer-centric collection with TM1, TM2, and TMBO would be the smartest move... it'd attract new fans to the series.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/17/18 at 14:13:19:

...Then there's TM3&4. I don't think there is enough demand in those being remastered. They weren't even  ps1 classics for PS3...

I'm gonna have to disagree with that.
In my area, all of my friends who had heard of the game were always fans of 3 and 4. I'm in that 19-25 area, so most of us grew up when TM3 and 4 were all over the stores for a low price. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until I found TMA that I even knew there was a disdain for TM3 and 4. The reviews don't lie, it wasn't reviewed well either. However, I think nostalgia is powerful, and would definitely sell these games. I'm not sure why they weren't on PS Classics. Buuuuut, I could just have no scope of the world and just be talking about my immediate area.

I think what they should do is what the Crash Trilogy did but break it up at the same time, like what they did with some of the PS2 HD Collections. Remaster all of the PS1 TM games and then release them all in a collection for $60. Then, offer each game for $15 a piece instead in addition to the bundle. That way,
new consumers could buy just one game, nostalgia would sell multiple different games and the hardcore fans would buy all five of them. If somebody buys one and likes it, they would likely buy all five of the games sometime in the future.

If it was marketed well, the commercial would be a really cool animated segment going through the different games, transitioning between them seamlessly starting with TM1. Then maybe TM1 Crimson would land in TM2 Paris and get blown up by Mr. Slam, who would fall into L.A. Ruins from TM3 and so on until a car is blown up at the end where a little kid watches the car skid on its side to a stop. The kid was standing on a street in his neighborhood driving a RC car and it shows him start to get an idea. End it with the screen fading to black while the TM HD Collection Logo is shot out of the screen with bullet holes and an explosion reveals it. Instant nostalgia and intrigue from new buyers.

I think it would be absolutely huge.

But I'd be okay with just TM2 and Small Brawl from the PS1 remastered with really tight game engines.

Ripzsaur wrote on 02/18/18 at 13:11:15:

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. In my area, all of my friends who had heard of the game were always fans of 3 and 4. I'm in that 19-25 area, so most of us grew up when TM3 and 4 were all over the stores for a low price. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until I found TMA that I even knew there was a disdain for TM3 and 4. The reviews don't lie, it wasn't reviewed well either. However, I think nostalgia is powerful, and would definitely sell these games. I'm not sure why they weren't on PS Classics. Buuuuut, I could just have no scope of the world and just be talking about my immediate area. I think what they should do is what the Crash Trilogy did but break it up at the same time, like what they did with some of the PS2 HD Collections. Remaster all of the PS1 TM games and then release them all in a collection for $60. Then, offer each game for $15 a piece instead in addition to the bundle. That way, new consumers could buy just one game, nostalgia would sell multiple different games and the hardcore fans would buy all five of them. If somebody buys one and likes it, they would likely buy all five of the games sometime in the future. If it was marketed well, the commercial would be a really cool animated segment going through the different games, transitioning between them seamlessly starting with TM1. Then maybe TM1 Crimson would land in TM2 Paris and get blown up by Mr. Slam, who would fall into L.A. Ruins from TM3 and so on until a car is blown up at the end where a little kid watches the car skid on its side to a stop. The kid was standing on a street in his neighborhood driving a RC car and it shows him start to get an idea. End it with the screen fading to black while the TM HD Collection Logo is shot out of the screen with bullet holes and an explosion reveals it. Instant nostalgia and intrigue from new buyers. I think it would be absolutely huge. But I'd be okay with just TM2 and Small Brawl from the PS1 remastered with really tight game engines.

Well, for the reason they weren't PS3 PSOne Classics makes it hard for me to really know how popular TM3/4 are from a nostalgic standpoint, since ultimately it is Sony's decision not the fans/TMA's if those games will ever make it to the PSN store. Technically those games sold well enough to qualify as classics but Sony has never showed interest in bringing them into the store. I don't think the anti-989 fans would care if they were remastered in a collection. TM4's multiplayer was actually pretty fun with the multiplayer-only maps, so I could see people playing TM4 online. But yeah, a full priced remaster of all 5 PS1 Twisted Metal games works because it's a big nostalgic trip into the past and it's a great value. They could also throw extras into that package, like include the old, funny Twisted Metal commercials, and the limited Twisted Metal 2 comic book.

Sony has to get the Rob Zombie license again.

If Sony is going o do it. I think TM 1 through Small Brawl would be the best choice, but the same with Crash, it should have to be a remake more than a remaster. Make one engine that plays as close as TM2 (or Black) as possible, and use it for all five games, cause I can see reviewers and new players crapping all over TM3 physics.

Richard -Dick- Biggs wrote on 02/20/18 at 22:12:56:

If Sony is going o do it. I think TM 1 through Small Brawl would be the best choice, but the same with Crash, it should have to be a remake more than a remaster. Make one engine that plays as close as TM2 (or Black) as possible, and use it for all five games, cause I can see reviewers and new players crapping all over TM3 physics.

yep. they'd have to remake the engine and the art assets. all that old data is unavailable. i guess back then no one envisioned a future of remakes.
what would be cool though is to see some DLC for a PS1 collection. How cool would it be if Darkside were made playable for TM2?

They should absolutely make one game engine for the whole collection.

I don't think it would be an issue getting the licensed tracks back. It would be awkward though, because I could see a Sony exec being like, "Wow, a lot of these bands aren't relevant anymore. Lets replace them."

I could see them cutting out all the licensed music period. Except for the fact I don't thing 3 or 4 had very many if any original soundtracks.

†Adonael wrote on 02/23/18 at 21:11:10:

I could see them cutting out all the licensed music period. Except for the fact I don't thing 3 or 4 had very many if any original soundtracks.

Twisted Metal 4’s Intro music AND Main Menu music was even licensed. Both by One Minute Silence, being “South Central” and “A More Violent Approach” respectively.

Edit: Half the soundtrack is either some iteration of Zombie or One Minute Silence.

I don't see why they'd have to cut out licensed music. Honestly 3&4 soundtracks are not really that bad, it was the least of those game's problems. The lack of made-for-game music bothered me sure except TMIII had a few songs by the guys who worked on TM1&2's soundtrack which was cool. The thing is I find instrumental music to work better with Twisted Metal because you can loop the song in a map without it getting annoying. once you add vocals to the equation it can get irritating hearing a song in a loop for 15 minutes. TMX tried to remedy that by shuffling the songs of the soundtrack randomly but by doing that it took away the coolness of pairing a song with a map... sometimes the mix of song & map works perfectly like Paris TM2 where both song/map share a theme. In TMIII/4 there is no real marriage between map and song beyond TM4s Carnival stage having a White Zombie song that samples carnival/circus music. But even still, those soundtracks could have been a lot worse. There are just enough good songs on them to save the soundtracks from being total trash.

I think the Minion's Maze music really adds to the whole tone of the level, gothic and dark, but colorful. But otherwise I could do without the music, or with new instrumental music, that's even better, TM2 has the best ost for me, Black is good but I don't remember any song, only when playing.


MoshTMA wrote on 02/20/18 at 22:54:41:

yep. they'd have to remake the engine and the art assets. all that old data is unavailable. i guess back then no one envisioned a future of remakes. what would be cool though is to see some DLC for a PS1 collection. How cool would it be if Darkside were made playable for TM2?

As a kid, I could only beat the game with Minion on medium difficulty and when I watched the credits and read "Axel's Father," I thought that was a secret vehicle to use. So I pictured a huge Axel with two wheels each side, spikes and everything. I would like that too.

Looks like another popular franchise is getting a remaster.

Might not be officially confirmed, but it's interesting. Sadly, both of these properties are owned by Activision and doesn't have bearing on TM, but this will mark the second trilogy remaster on PS4. Along with MediEvil, there have been a pretty healthy amount of PSOne remasters. Maybe Sony will take notice if the next two are successful as well.

Really, take a look at the playing field. Pulling up the list of best-selling PSOne games shows that a ton of them are being remastered currently or have already been remastered.

[list bull-greenball]

Resident Evil 1 - March 22nd,  2002 then re-released on PS4 in an HD collection.

Resident Evil 2 - WIP

Final Fantasy VII - WIP

Oddworld New N' Tasty - July 22nd, 2014

Parappa the Rapper - Released

Crash Bandicoot Trilogy - Released

Spyro Trilogy - WIP

MediEvil - WIP


So looking at the list of whats left, there are only a few more viable franchises ahead of TM2. Gran Turismo won't get a remaster because why would it? The gameplay is dated and while the cars are amazing, Gran Turismo 6 had almost if not all of the cars from both of the first two games in them. The gameplay is too dated and if anything, Gran Turismo needs a complete reboot.

Final Fantasy VIII and IX would be a valid argument but those won't even be considered until after Final Fantasy VII is completed.

The Tekken series would probably be ripe for a remaster, but with so many different games in the series I don't know how high up on the chain that would be. I'm not too familiar with Tekken so I can't say much about it, but I know in recent memory there were several Tekken games on the PS3 alone.

Tomb Raider would be a great trilogy for a remaster and will likely be looked at due to the success of the reboot.

Spider-Man is currently getting rebooted for PS4 consoles, and Tony Hawk was rebooted (poorly) as well.

Croc the Legend of Gobbos, please make this happen.

Mortal Kombat: Trilogy could definitely be viable and sell well, although I'm not familiar with the fanbase enough to know if thats something they would want.

Crash Bash and Crash Team Racing could probably do well in an HD Remaster advertised-as-party-games pack, but I DO NOT think that would happen. If anything, I think CTR would get a budget remaster as a PSN only release.

Metal Gear Solid 1 would be a good one.

So ignoring licensed games, the only real games left on the list as contenders for getting remasters are Dino Crisis, Syphon Filter, Parasite Eve, Silent Hill, Final Fantasy Tactics, and of course---Twisted Metal.

Twisted Metal 1-4 sold over 5 million copies combined. So looking at the list of Dino Crisis - Tactics and their respective series, the games average somewhere between 1.9 million and 4 million, none having more combined sells than Twisted Metal 1-4. Tomb Raider sold exponentially more than Twisted Metal, as did Tekken and Final Fantasy. So arguing these points, if Sony took interest and ignoring the reboot, Tomb Raider would be next, potentially followed by Tekken. IF the Final Fantasy VII reboot does well (and it will) FFVIII may happen, but I don't believe IX will. By that logic, I think the odds are actually kind of in our favor of a reboot sometime in the future.

The only real contenders ahead of it, in my opinion, would be:

[list bull-greenball]

Tomb Raider

Metal Gear Solid (if Konami doesn't fuck around - good luck)

CTR

Silent Hill (fuck Konami)

maybe Tekken


This post is of course ignoring third-party rights and things like that. Games owned by Square Enix/Konami/whoever-the-fuck-else could be remastered on their own terms. However, in the interest of talking from the perspective of Sony seeking out arrangements, this is what I've came up with. Another possible alternative with Spyro and Crash could be a trend of platformers. Then we could see games like Gex and Croc. Crash got a timed-exclusivity release on PS4, although I wouldn't expect the same from an IP like TM. That's the only real difference, TM would be completely at Sony's mercy as opposed to the other games being made by 3rd-Party companies. Admittedly, that's a big difference. However, it is interesting to see from a numbers stand-point where that would be Sony in the event of them looking to make some quick and easy cash off of remasters.

Spyro is piggybacking off of crash bandicoots success. Don't think of that one as a trend.

Dino crisis was mentioned by Masachika Kawatan as a game he would like to remake, but capcom has no plans what so ever to touch that series again.

Resident Evil 2 is only seeing a remake because of what the fans did. Plus resident evil has always been extremely popular. Re-releasing any of those games is like releasing a Mega man game for capcom.

Same goes for FF7.

---------

Now your spitballing about franchises you see getting a remaster is extremely based on opinion alone and not enough information to back up those claims.

You picked a few popular franchises (MediEvil being more of a CULT classic) but you are missing a massive chuck of titles that were way more successful than twisted metal 2.

Most companies now are focusing on a world wide market than local markets. This main reason is the cost of production.

300 million or more to make a AAA game now makes it hard to make your money back on a local level.

Now you wanna convince me twisted metal will make a come back, show me some charts that prove the relevance of car combat in 2018.

Did you ever think that part of the reason we even ended up getting TMX was because of death race.

The franchise list from potential remasters was from a list of games that have sold the best on the PS1. I didn’t pick them from the top of my head (e.g. Tomb Raider, CTR, Tekken) and the opinion that it wouldn’t happen is based on instances like you stated about Dino Crisis. I can’t argue that car combat has relevence now, but remastered games (and nostalgia) does. Granted, I have no evidence from developers etc stating that these games would be produced next, but that wasn’t my point. I was speaking in the theoretical interest of Sony looking at sales numbers and public interest. All of those games sold better than Twisted Metal when the games released. I do not think Twisted Metal will ever get a full blown AAA remaster. Do I see a remaster of Twisted Metal 2 for release on PSN? Maybe. My point of the post, in short, was that using the logic of numbers and public interest, TM (likely TM2 in particular) would pop up in conversation (of PS1 remasters) based on the fact its:

A.) a Unique-exclusive franchise

B.) Sold well and the games I named in the potential remaster list were most of the non-sports/licensed games that sold above it

C.) Has fan demand, even at cult-classic status.

A lot of internet boards talking about PS1 remasters mention Twisted Metal 2. Im not a Sony exec, I likely don’t know what they do. I’m simply pointing out that, from the process of elimination, TM2 would be in the running.

Oddworld is considered a cult classic and it sold well. Parappa the Rappa is a cult classic that sold well. Twisted Metal is also considered a cult classic and it sold well. A triple A trend? Maybe not. But with the indie/retro market exploding like it tends to do, remasters have a place. The point of the spitballing was to show how several franchises had remasters, to moderate success, and remasters are being worked on that have tremendous hype behind them. People are buying nostalgia.

Unlike Dino Crisis, its not like Sony has completely forgotten about Twisted Metal. Sweet Tooth might be their advertising bitch right now, but Twisted Metal was used as the Valentines sale advertisement a couple of years ago, was found in Rocket League, had the Twisted Metal sale for TMB, 1, 2 and PS3, had TMPS3 given out as a Playstation Plus title, chose TMB for one of the first PS2 titles on PS4, a Sweet Tooth mask in Payday 2 etc. Granted, some of those points could be easily explained WHY TM was used, but again, the list is more about making a point of commercial use of Sweet Tooth as a recognizable character and how Sony knows it incites reactions.

PS2 remasters are successful currently (not full blown remasters, basically just HD upscaled) such as the Kingdom Hearts remasters, but I did not account for PS2 franchises. I’m talking exclusively about Playstation 1 and it’s recent increase in remasters. We had almost no Playstation 1 remasters on the PS3 generation, so one could say it is a trend on the PS4 exclusively in relative comparison.

You might be right about Death Race. I don’t know. I’m definitely not saying you’re wrong, but the Dark Past came out in February 2008, with the code announcing TMPS3, and Death Race didn’t release till August 22nd, 2008. Maybe the relative success of Death Race stopped it from getting cancelled, as it wasn’t OFFICIALLY announced until E3 2010. I don’t know, just spitballing.

I’m not saying this is definitely happening. It is just speculation. What I’m saying is it’s not IMPOSSIBLE, nor too farfetched, that Sony would show interest in this at some point in time. Yes, Twisted Metal tanked in Japan. The world market is questionable. But, with several remasters that have been brought to moderate success, and compared to other franchises, it would make absolute sense that it could happen sometime in the future. I believe the North American market alone could turn a profit on TM2 remaster by a third-party developer sanctioned by Sony. It wouldn’t need to be a 300 million dollar game. If it took 10 million dollars to make the game, at $20 a piece, and 1/2 of the 1.7 million people who bought TM2 bought it again, theyd make seven million dollars in profit.

Again, not proof. Speculation.

Edit: Clarification

MoshTMA wrote on 02/24/18 at 16:40:58:

TMIII had a few songs by the guys who worked on TM1&2's soundtrack which was cool.

Would you be able to tell me who these people are and where I can hear more of their stuff?  I constantly have TM1, 2, 3, Small Brawl, Head on, and symphony soundtracks on rotation.  I would love to hear more of their material.

†Adonael wrote on 02/14/18 at 18:49:40:

Did you ever think that part of the reason we even ended up getting TMX was because of death race.

I would say Death Race and Twisted Metal have hyped eachother up, although, not lately.  2017 had Death Race 2050, a direct sequel to Death Race 2000. 2018 will have Death Race Beyond Anarchy, the latest sequel to the newer franchise.

Chuck E. Myers and the Pinnacle Group did the music for Jet Moto 1 and 2 as well as Twisted metal 1 and 2. As far as there being a few tracks by them in Twisted three I'm not sure I don't have a verified source on that.

Twisted Metal III has 3 original songs by Lance Lenhart (of Lionhart Productions), who was 1 of the 3 members of The Pinnacle Group, thus those songs are often attributed to them instead of specifically Lance. The songs are "Song 1" (London's music), "Valley of the Kings" (Egypt's music), and the untitled TM3 main menu theme which has a part that is variation of the classic twisted metal guitar theme.

As for Twisted Metal 2012's original soundtrack, there is only one song with Pinnacle Group stuff... the song is named "Carmageddon" (like that other game...), which features 2 Pinnacle guys, Chuck E. Myers and Tommy Hopkins, along w/ 2 other guys. There is also a variation of the classic TM theme in this song.

Other good TMX songs are the songs with Larry LaLonde (guitarist of Primus) who does the menu theme music, "Deathwish", "Shotgunner", and "Roadkill". And the Buckethead song "Ready to Die" is also worth listening to (although that song technically is an old song of his named "Peak (Kind Regards)" that was remade for TMX's soundtrack).

MoshTMA wrote on 02/15/18 at 21:18:50:

...Larry LaLonde (guitarist of Primus) who does the menu theme music...

That explains a lot. Love me some Primus.

Ripzsaur wrote on 02/15/18 at 22:21:34:

That explains a lot. Love me some Primus.

Yeah, Primus rules. Larry's style with Primus isn't very metal though, so his TMX songs might surprise some who do not know Larry's origins. He was the guitarist in an 80s metal band called Possessed & Possessed is considered to be the first death metal band with "Seven Churches" being their notable album featuring a song called "Death Metal". Afterwards he joined a thrash metal band called Blind Illusion and played on their debut 1988 album that also featured Les Claypool on bass and was produced by Kirk Hammett (of Metallica). Not long after that Les left to reform Primus and invited Larry to join and since then he had not done much straight up metal so his presence on TMX as a metal guitarist is probably the coolest thing about the game.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/16/18 at 00:15:04:

Yeah, Primus rules. Larry's style with Primus isn't very metal though, so his TMX songs might surprise some who do not know Larry's origins. He was the guitarist in an 80s metal band called Possessed & Possessed is considered to be the first death metal band with "Seven Churches" being their notable album featuring a song called "Death Metal". Afterwards he joined a thrash metal band called Blind Illusion and played on their debut 1988 album that also featured Les Claypool on bass and was produced by Kirk Hammett (of Metallica). Not long after that Les left to reform Primus and invited Larry to join and since then he had not done much straight up metal so his presence on TMX as a metal guitarist is probably the coolest thing about the game.

A few years ago, he rejoined Possessed.  They toured and got some more acclaim.  I dunno if they are still touring, though.  I believe they were the headline of Deathfest about 2 years ago.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/17/18 at 14:13:19:

If Sony is going in the direction of remastering a classic TM game I don't think they should limit it to TM2 alone. The Crash Bandicoot remaster succeeds not only in the nostalgic level, but in being 3 games in 1. Would you rather buy say, a 20 dollar TM2 remaster, or buy a 40 dollar remaster with 3 remastered TM titles? I think a collection would work best but then you have to ask yourself what are the other games... me personally I think I would go with TM1, TM2 (with a TM2 PC style multiplayer), and TM Black Online (since the story version is already available on PSN). A multiplayer-centric collection would be amazing... TM1 would be something that could appeal to fans of 1 vs 1 and fighting games who find TM2/Black's online too chaotic. I also think a remastered version of TM Small Brawl would be pretty cool. The game's biggest flaw was graphics, so technically that game could benefit the most from being redone. Then there's TM3&4. I don't think there is enough demand in those being remastered. They weren't even  ps1 classics for PS3, but another potential strategy for Sony is to release a full priced 50-60 dollar game that had all 5 PS1 Twisted Metal games. They could also do the opposite and focus on TM Black, Head-On, and TM 2012 getting the remastered treatment and release that as a full priced game, but eh, that would be dumb. There's a lot of ways they can go with a remaster but to me a multiplayer-centric collection with TM1, TM2, and TMBO would be the smartest move... it'd attract new fans to the series.

The online multiplayer component is what really throws the comparison to the Crash HD remaster off balance. If You were to do a TM1-TM2-TMB package it would be insanely expensive to make all 3 games online and it would split the audience.

Keep it simple and have a TM2 HD remaster with a good solid online component. Maybe you could do a non-online TM1 HD remaster included and get the price to around 30$ adding more content softens the blow of a bit higher price tag?

If I were Sony and approaching this I would think that TM2 HD with a good online structure for around 20$ is the way to go. TM2 is the most popular game in the series sales wise and is a lot of fans favorites critically. So focus on trying to recapture that and I think you have something that could restart the series.

I was one of those people begging for a Medievil remaster, cause it was literally my first video game ever! Got it on the ps1 demo disk, and then played the hell out of it later down the line. My second game ever...Twisted metal 2! lol didn't even know there was a first one at the time. I will now direct all my efforts toward begging Sony for a TM 2HD remaster...and small brawl, since that is my second favorite probably.

tmfan89 wrote on 02/17/18 at 00:40:05:

The online multiplayer component is what really throws the comparison to the Crash HD remaster off balance. If You were to do a TM1-TM2-TMB package it would be insanely expensive to make all 3 games online and it would split the audience. Keep it simple and have a TM2 HD remaster with a good solid online component. Maybe you could do a non-online TM1 HD remaster included and get the price to around 30$ adding more content softens the blow of a bit higher price tag? If I were Sony and approaching this I would think that TM2 HD with a good online structure for around 20$ is the way to go. TM2 is the most popular game in the series sales wise and is a lot of fans favorites critically. So focus on trying to recapture that and I think you have something that could restart the series.

TM1 just has a 1vs1 mode with small maps, it wouldn't be much of a problem if included.

As for TM2, who knows what Sony would do there... would they keep multiplayer limited to co-op tournament and 1vs1 DM? or would they go with TM2 PC's multiplayer model?
If TM2's remaster were limited to 2 player co-op & DM then TMBO would be necessary.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/17/18 at 11:43:41:

TM1 just has a 1vs1 mode with small maps, it wouldn't be much of a problem if included. As for TM2, who knows what Sony would do there... would they keep multiplayer limited to co-op tournament and 1vs1 DM? or would they go with TM2 PC's multiplayer model? If TM2's remaster were limited to 2 player co-op & DM then TMBO would be necessary.

If I am looking at this from Sony's perspective nostalgia for the PS1 is at or close to the highest, it is ever going to get. TM2 is one of the most popular PS1 games and certainly one of the most popular In-house Sony titles that has yet to get a remaster.

TM2 is the 49th highest selling PS1 game and the only first party Sony titles that are ahead of it sales wise are the Crash games (which have already been remastered), The Spyro Games (Which are getting a remaster), and Gran Turismo 1 and 2.

Gran Turismo just had an installment on the PS4 so I am not sure they want to dip into a remaster of the first two games as it could undercut sales of a new release.

So to me TM2 HD could be the most logical choice for a remaster. 1- Sony owns the game and the IP, 2- It's a game that did good sales wise, 3- It's would not be an expensive game to remake as it is a fairly simple game.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/17/18 at 11:43:41:

TM1 just has a 1vs1 mode with small maps, it wouldn't be much of a problem if included. As for TM2, who knows what Sony would do there... would they keep multiplayer limited to co-op tournament and 1vs1 DM? or would they go with TM2 PC's multiplayer model? If TM2's remaster were limited to 2 player co-op & DM then TMBO would be necessary.

I fully agree that online for a TM2 HD is a must. 20$ for a TM2 HD remaster with online would be a great sweet spot. Maybe if you did TM1 HD with no online as a combo for 30$ that could be doable since you aren't splitting the online communities.

As far as what modes you would include in a TM2 HD online I think you keep it very simple. 1 vs. 1, 4 player deathmatch, online story mode co-op, and if possible 8 player deathmatch. And you can set deathmatches to be either done by lives or timer (most kills in a given period of time.) Nothing fancy just deliver the basics in a streamlined way.

But I think you can only have 1 online game if you are doing TM remasters. For starters you don't want to split the community. Secondly that's 2 servers you have to put up and that's a lot of added cost.

I do honestly think that what could be killing a TM2 HD remaster is the online component that would be needed. That just might be too expensive or risky to develop.

If that were the case then maybe you are right and Sony should do TMBO polished up HD with a bonus of TM2 HD and TM1 HD non-online for 40$.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/17/18 at 11:43:41:

TM1 just has a 1vs1 mode with small maps, it wouldn't be much of a problem if included. As for TM2, who knows what Sony would do there... would they keep multiplayer limited to co-op tournament and 1vs1 DM? or would they go with TM2 PC's multiplayer model? If TM2's remaster were limited to 2 player co-op & DM then TMBO would be necessary.

When I was reading this, I thought of a kinda cool concept for an online mode. It would only work with a lot of players in the player base though.

However, it would be a really fun concept to have an online tournament mode where to advance you have to place in the top 4 of each match, then the match would get consolidated. Last man standing type deal, 3 lives... I.e. make it just like single-player tournament. After you lose all three lives, you can leave the match if you desire or watch the rest of it.
The top 4 from that match get paired with the top four from another match. That pattern continues up to the last level where the 8 players fight and whoever lasts the longest wins, earning XP based on your position.

I'm sure some tweaks could be made to make it easier to do the concept with a lower player-base but as an initial idea it would be cool.

In general, I think TM2 is the only real plausible argument here.

It could be remade with relative ease as it's only 8 environments (excluding the hidden levels) and a few handful of car models as opposed to a sprawling open-world or dozens of smaller levels with varying assets. A simple online deathmatch/LMS/1v1 (option to fight a randomly selected opponent, like a fighting game)/co-op system would be sufficient. Hell, you wouldn't even have to code the co-op into the network environment if they wanted to be lazy. They could just utilize the Playstation Share Play (albeit would be a split screen, so points deducted there). At least the beauty of the Share Play option is if the new TM2 servers ever went down, you can still play online co-op. Slap a $20 price tag on it, sell a few hundred thousand downloads, make a cool two million after production costs. Make Darkside and Dark Tooth playable characters in TM2, sell a DLC pack for Twisted Metal 1 Cars/Maps at $10 with, make another million or so.

Ripzsaur wrote on 02/19/18 at 03:39:40:

When I was reading this, I thought of a kinda cool concept for an online mode. It would only work with a lot of players in the player base though. However, it would be a really fun concept to have an online tournament mode where to advance you have to place in the top 4 of each match, then the match would get consolidated. Last man standing type deal, 3 lives... I.e. make it just like single-player tournament. After you lose all three lives, you can leave the match if you desire or watch the rest of it. The top 4 from that match get paired with the top four from another match. That pattern continues up to the last level where the 8 players fight and whoever lasts the longest wins, earning XP based on your position. I'm sure some tweaks could be made to make it easier to do the concept with a lower player-base but as an initial idea it would be cool. In general, I think TM2 is the only real plausible argument here. It could be remade with relative ease as it's only 8 environments (excluding the hidden levels) and a few handful of car models as opposed to a sprawling open-world or dozens of smaller levels with varying assets. A simple online deathmatch/LMS/1v1 (option to fight a randomly selected opponent, like a fighting game)/co-op system would be sufficient. Hell, you wouldn't even have to code the co-op into the network environment if they wanted to be lazy. They could just utilize the Playstation Share Play (albeit would be a split screen, so points deducted there). At least the beauty of the Share Play option is if the new TM2 servers ever went down, you can still play online co-op. Slap a $20 price tag on it, sell a few hundred thousand downloads, make a cool two million after production costs. Make Darkside and Dark Tooth playable characters in TM2, sell a DLC pack for Twisted Metal 1 Cars/Maps at $10 with, make another million or so.

One possible issue is do they still have the source code from Twisted Metal 2? I remember hearing back a few years after Twisted Metal Head On came out that they originally wanted to build off of the source code from TM2 but the source code has been lost. I could be misremembering this so I could be wrong, I hope that isn't the case.

But I wouldn't count on online features that are anything basic. Although I certainly do like the idea of a tiered tournament mode with 4 player battles, winner goes to the next round.

Just give me up to 4-8 players for deathmatches and give some decent customization options for the structure of death matches (timed battles, stock lives, damage done maybe.) For a 20$ remake with online play I don't expect there to be robust online but a functional online that is balanced with decent basic options would be fantastic.

I also wouldn't expect DLC unless the game is massively successful (In which case Darkside and Yello Jacket plus some TM1 maps would be a great addition.)

I think there is money to make on an affordable remake. It's not a complicated game and there is a big following for that game, toss in a lot of PS1 nostalgia going on and a Twisted Metal fan can only hope. 

tmfan89 wrote on 02/19/18 at 06:58:59:

One possible issue is do they still have the source code from Twisted Metal 2? I remember hearing back a few years after Twisted Metal Head On came out that they originally wanted to build off of the source code from TM2 but the source code has been lost. I could be misremembering this so I could be wrong, I hope that isn't the case. But I wouldn't count on online features that are anything basic. Although I certainly do like the idea of a tiered tournament mode with 4 player battles, winner goes to the next round. Just give me up to 4-8 players for deathmatches and give some decent customization options for the structure of death matches (timed battles, stock lives, damage done maybe.) For a 20$ remake with online play I don't expect there to be robust online but a functional online that is balanced with decent basic options would be fantastic. I also wouldn't expect DLC unless the game is massively successful (In which case Darkside and Yello Jacket plus some TM1 maps would be a great addition.) I think there is money to make on an affordable remake. It's not a complicated game and there is a big following for that game, toss in a lot of PS1 nostalgia going on and a Twisted Metal fan can only hope.

I’m fairly certain they don’t have the source code. I’ve been operating under the assumption they don’t.

Even if the source code still existed I wonder what kind of licensing issues it would have. Even open-source projects have licenses.

Sorce code for a lot of singletrac originals were lost. Jet moto, twisted and warhawk being among them.

I still don't see how TM1 having online would split the community. TM1 fans are TM2 fans anyway, and World Tour's online wouldn't be hurt because it'd remain the more popular option among that group of fans. For every 80 players playing TM2 there would be 20 players playing TM1 at most.
Without online TM1's return would be pointless since it's multiplayer would go to waste. the only thing they could do to make an offline TM1 interesting would be to redo the text endings to match TM2's comic book style of endings. and to add a challenge mode.

TMBO and TM2's online modes existing at the same time on PS4, that'd split the community most likely. It is not easy deciding which is the better option because each have their own merits and it would be hard to give each equal time. An argument can also be made that TM4 & Head-On might steal away TM2/B players a situation where those games had online multiplayer too, although those games returning is not happening, as are the chances for Small Brawl, TMIII, & TMX. Sony already decided that TM1, 2, and Black are the only games they can make any money on, although I don't think they are necessarily right. They could also try and do like the Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1&2 remasters -- release a bundle of a couple remasters that you could buy individually rather than as a bundle... for example, have a TM1+2 Remaster for about 30 dollars & a TMB+TMBO Remaster also for around that price, & you could buy them individually to save money or buy them as a slightly discounted bundle. That way people have the option of saving money and picking their chosen poison since not everyone who loved TM1/2 necessarily loved TMB/TMBO (just like how not everyone who loved Ultimate Alliance 1 loved Ultimate Alliance 2). And if one happened to be more successful than the other... then it could influence the direction that the series goes in the future.

I would just remake Twisted 2 with the original game's levels included. Twisted Metal 1 doesn't really feel like a finished thought while certainly an amazing game for it's time, Twisted 2 improved upon everything the first game started.

There are some things I like better in 1 than in 2. I really think the original gets unappreciated, and in part I think it's that people were so attracted to the "World Tour" feature that they didn't feel the first game offered as much creativity. but what i did like more;

-Hammerhead is wayyyy better in TM1. It's not even up for debate. TM2 Hammerhead fucking sucks and any defense for TM2 HH is based on that version having a better story/ending.

-TM1 had Darkside whereas TM2 only has DS in an options menu which is a total tease and it annoys me every time I play TM2.

-(up for debate) Pit Viper is better than Grasshopper. I didn't like playing as Grasshopper. That special felt like hopping towards suicide.

-TM1's simpler combat gave AI/players less opportunities to play cheap because you couldn't just freeze enemies easily (unless you picked up a freeze missile on the map), and you couldn't shield. Because of this, multiplayer duel matches played out differently than they did in TM2 - and there were no big maps available in TM1's multiplayer so I felt that duels were more fair in the 1st game. Every game after has more unbalanced multiplayer modes because of advanced combos and larger maps. TM1 was the only one where you didn't need to create new rules to balance out matches.

Also, TM2 NEEDS those extra TM1 maps (original suburbs and rooftops). Those were among the most popular maps when people were playing TM2 PC and still among the 2 best maps in the entire series.

I'll agree with a few of your points, freeze missiles definitely changed the experience in TM2, and the Cyburbia battleground is definitely one of the better maps. But, I think overall Twisted 2 had far more replay value and variety with it's vehicle choice and levels. Simply adding the ability to rotate your vehicle changed a lot of the gameplay. To me the original game is a great concept that really needed more fleshing out, which the sequel delivered on.

I still think having TM2 with TM1 maps included would be the best compromise. Ideally, two games would be best, but I think having anything more than TM2 would never happen. Mixing the two, you could then have a comprehensive game with the 1v1 game mode implemented.

The problem is the fact that the gameplay is so different between the two games. TM2 is much more comic and fantasy based where as TM1 is decently rooted in reality. Things like oil slicks and tire spikes are more realistic as well as the inability to shield or jump without some sort of external device.

It couldn't really be made into just simply a game mode while maintaining the feel of TM1. I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that TM1's feel will likely be lost in the remaster process unless they really go balls out and remaster several from the franchise.

I think another interesting thing to note would be how the tone would be replicated in the game. I wonder what kind of stylistic liberties the new developers would make. It's not just and HD upscale, it's a full blown remaster. The world was relatively bland in TM1 due to hardware restrictions, so I'm curious to see what would come of the new environments. I also wonder if in this newfound time period if Sony would get behind things like blowing up the Eiffel Tower. I know that TMX blew up the Statue of Liberty, but still, people are overly sensitive.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/19/18 at 20:03:04:

I still don't see how TM1 having online would split the community. TM1 fans are TM2 fans anyway, and World Tour's online wouldn't be hurt because it'd remain the more popular option among that group of fans. For every 80 players playing TM2 there would be 20 players playing TM1 at most. Without online TM1's return would be pointless since it's multiplayer would go to waste. the only thing they could do to make an offline TM1 interesting would be to redo the text endings to match TM2's comic book style of endings. and to add a challenge mode. TMBO and TM2's online modes existing at the same time on PS4, that'd split the community most likely. It is not easy deciding which is the better option because each have their own merits and it would be hard to give each equal time. An argument can also be made that TM4 & Head-On might steal away TM2/B players a situation where those games had online multiplayer too, although those games returning is not happening, as are the chances for Small Brawl, TMIII, & TMX. Sony already decided that TM1, 2, and Black are the only games they can make any money on, although I don't think they are necessarily right. They could also try and do like the Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1&2 remasters -- release a bundle of a couple remasters that you could buy individually rather than as a bundle... for example, have a TM1+2 Remaster for about 30 dollars & a TMB+TMBO Remaster also for around that price, & you could buy them individually to save money or buy them as a slightly discounted bundle. That way people have the option of saving money and picking their chosen poison since not everyone who loved TM1/2 necessarily loved TMB/TMBO (just like how not everyone who loved Ultimate Alliance 1 loved Ultimate Alliance 2). And if one happened to be more successful than the other... then it could influence the direction that the series goes in the future.

I think having 2 online components to TM1 and TM2 would lead to some sort of divide among the player base. Plus that's 2 servers Sony has to run and possible monitor for balance, that's too much cost for a project that needs to be cost-efficient.

If you have just TM2 be online you have the userbase completely under one roof and you don't have some users going over to TM1 or flipping back and forth.

I am all for more Twisted Metal and I love the raw and unique nature of TM1 so I would love to see a combo of TM1 and TM2 HD for 30-40$ with both games having online components. But I just don't see Sony doing such a project for both cost and pragmatic reasons. I think at best you get TM1 levels (Rooftops and Suburbs) added into the TM2 maps like they did in the original.

Once again I would love to see TM1 online, but just looking at it pragmatically I don't see Sony doing it. I also think that the cost point has to be kept under 30$ sure more content like having 2 online games justifies the price for hardcore fans but you need to get a lower price point to attract the casual market which is less likely to spend 40$ on a pair of HD remaster with 2 online components. That extra online component is going to only appeal to hardcore fans.

tmfan89 wrote on 02/20/18 at 02:48:59:

I think having 2 online components to TM1 and TM2 would lead to some sort of divide among the player base. Plus that's 2 servers Sony has to run and possible monitor for balance, that's too much cost for a project that needs to be cost-efficient. If you have just TM2 be online you have the userbase completely under one roof and you don't have some users going over to TM1 or flipping back and forth. I am all for more Twisted Metal and I love the raw and unique nature of TM1 so I would love to see a combo of TM1 and TM2 HD for 30-40$ with both games having online components. But I just don't see Sony doing such a project for both cost and pragmatic reasons. I think at best you get TM1 levels (Rooftops and Suburbs) added into the TM2 maps like they did in the original. Once again I would love to see TM1 online, but just looking at it pragmatically I don't see Sony doing it. I also think that the cost point has to be kept under 30$ sure more content like having 2 online games justifies the price for hardcore fans but you need to get a lower price point to attract the casual market which is less likely to spend 40$ on a pair of HD remaster with 2 online components. That extra online component is going to only appeal to hardcore fans.

I think if you are looking at it from Sony's perspective you are trying to appeal to the casual crowd of people that have fond memories of Twisted Metal 2. There is a hardcore fanbase of Twisted Metal that will buy almost any decently made TM game. But that player base is small compared to the casual market that fondly remembers the PS1 game.

So I think at best you can hope for a 30$ combo TM1 HD remaster (no online) and a TM2 HD remaster with online. Or a TM2 HD remaster stand alone with online for 20$ and the suburbs and rooftop levels from TM 1 (And maybe Jet Moto) included as extra levels.

I think if I am Sony I am just focusing my efforts on nailing the TM2 HD remaster and getting a simple but functional online component. 20$ is cheap enough and profitable enough to make a game appealing to the casual audience. It's a small enough project where if you sell 400k downloads at 15-20$ a piece you can easily make a nice chunk of change off of it and it you sell close to a million copies it kind of proves the franchise still has some drawing power.

As a hardcore fan, I would want TM1 HD, TM2 HD, and TMB HD all with online components. Each game is unique and I would love to play them all online with a wide range of users that is easily accessible. But I think that just looking at where the market is for Twisted Metal in general you can't expect such large projects for a game with a relatively small fan base.

Start with a remaster of the series most popular game and see where that goes.

MoshTMA wrote on 02/19/18 at 22:14:07:

There are some things I like better in 1 than in 2. I really think the original gets unappreciated, and in part I think it's that people were so attracted to the "World Tour" feature that they didn't feel the first game offered as much creativity. but what i did like more; -Hammerhead is wayyyy better in TM1. It's not even up for debate. TM2 Hammerhead fucking sucks and any defense for TM2 HH is based on that version having a better story/ending. -TM1 had Darkside whereas TM2 only has DS in an options menu which is a total tease and it annoys me every time I play TM2. -(up for debate) Pit Viper is better than Grasshopper. I didn't like playing as Grasshopper. That special felt like hopping towards suicide. -TM1's simpler combat gave AI/players less opportunities to play cheap because you couldn't just freeze enemies easily (unless you picked up a freeze missile on the map), and you couldn't shield. Because of this, multiplayer duel matches played out differently than they did in TM2 - and there were no big maps available in TM1's multiplayer so I felt that duels were more fair in the 1st game. Every game after has more unbalanced multiplayer modes because of advanced combos and larger maps. TM1 was the only one where you didn't need to create new rules to balance out matches. Also, TM2 NEEDS those extra TM1 maps (original suburbs and rooftops). Those were among the most popular maps when people were playing TM2 PC and still among the 2 best maps in the entire series.

TM1 is way more raw than TM2. TM2 made the game a fighting game in cars while TM1 tried to be a more realistic approach to to car combat.

There were some plus and minuses to it. For one the lack of shield and native freeze changed the way the game was played, it made it navigating the environments and managing your inventory a bigger factor in matches.

But I thought the level design of TM1 was bland, suburbs and rooftops were great but the rest of the levels just didn't hit home, not saying they were bad but they just weren't great.

I also thought that the car controls of TM1 while more realistic just made navigating the environments harder. TM2 made the controls less realistic but it game the player a better sense of control.

I love the raw nature of TM1, it is a game birthing a genre and figuring a lot of things out. TM2 smoothed out a lot of the rough edges and made the game better and smoothed out a lot of the rough edges.

Lets be clear car combat was around before Twisted Metal

†Adonael wrote on 02/19/18 at 10:57:25:

Sorce code for a lot of singletrac originals were lost. Jet moto, twisted and warhawk being among them.

I wonder why that was the case. In less than 10 years they lost the source code (I remember hearing about the source code being lost when TMHO was being developed?)

I know game preservation from the 70's into the early 00's was not a priority to studios but it seems odd that they would lost the source code to highly popular games in such a quick manner.

I don't have the best technical knowledge but does anyone know if not having the source code would be a big impediment to a remaster?

Yes. You'd have to start from scratch and basically recreate a whole new game. If you don't have the source code you might as well just make a new game because it's going to take the same amount of work.

†Adonael wrote on 02/20/18 at 03:15:33:

Yes. You'd have to start from scratch and basically recreate a whole new game. If you don't have the source code you might as well just make a new game because it's going to take the same amount of work.

Sadly that might be a big impediment to the game getting made. Maybe they use the TMPS3 engine and try and recreate TM2 with that engine. Probably would bring costs down to work with an established engine unless creating new assets for that engine is expensive.

Trying to figure out the economics of getting a game made is what really can dampen a hardcore fans spirits. Glad there is a good mod community at the very least.