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Message started by HockeyGuy0k on 01/21/17 at 07:37:10

Title: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by HockeyGuy0k on 01/21/17 at 07:37:10
So I was thinking about the best and worst qualities of each TM game I was thinking about TM3 and 4 and trying to think through why people disliked them so much and if there was anything that people actually liked about them so I thought I would share my thoughts.

BAD --- TM3's theme was way off the mark, the controls were bad, and some of the characters were straight up moronic (Club Kid, Hippy girl who drove the Volkswagon beetle, nerdy crazy guy with the glasses who drove the flamethrower car), levels like Washington DC, Japan rooftops, and the UFO were way to small and bland.

GOOD --- TM3's soundtrack was on point, the special weapons were diverse and unique and each felt like it served a purpose (Club Kids tornado thing is my favorite), most of the levels were sized right and felt like an open environment for you to roam not like narrow highways like in a racer game or some levels in TM2012.

BAD --- TM4 had some really dumb characters like rob zombie and the bug killer guy, the theme was off again being too cheezy with the whole circus concept.

GOOD --- I liked the idea of having custom made vehicles/characters (even if it was executed poorly with few options),

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Archminion on 01/21/17 at 09:57:20
TM4 had in my opinion at least some genuinely good level design and TM3 had a few levels that always stood out for me (London, Blimp).

Club Kid was also kinda fun to use.

A lot of the problems with the 989 games were simply execution.

It's so long ago that few here actively bash the games anymore.

It could be argued that if they hadn't been conceived, TM might have took an even worse turn and simply had ok but not great sequels churned out far earlier in it's life cycle.

The great TMB may have never been born...


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by †Adonael on 01/21/17 at 12:20:32
After playing these again recently here's my opinions:

Twisted 3:

Blimp idea was cool.

The handling was trash.

Story was too kiddo.

A lot of the arching weapons seemed to have a steep learning curve making the pretty ignorable.

Twisted 4:

Horrible character designs\stories.

Better handling.

I really enjoyed the "Hotwheels" bed room idea even if in the context of twisted metal it made no sense what so ever.

What they did to calypso and sweet tooth. Mainly sweet tooth.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by HockeyGuy0k on 01/23/17 at 04:25:38
Wow I wrote this a few days ago and wanted to check in to see what people had to say but only two responses, Gosh how dead is this site?

Yeah the blimp level, london, and hollywood I liked in particular on TM3. I felt the UFO level and Washington DC were much to small, Egyptian level was bland and one dimensional, and the Japan rooftops level was to compartmentalized (not a fan of any rooftops level with instant death all around you).

I felt the mortar and napalm weapons were great and done even better in TM4 with autolob (a mild homing element). Rain was pretty well useless as well as speed weapons (just needed more dmg IMO.


"The great TMB may have never been born..."

I never really thought about that. TM3 and 4 kind of held over fans and kept the game relevant until Black could come along and show everyone what the series was truly capable of. Interesting perspective.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by The Deadite on 01/23/17 at 20:10:42
I've never played TM3 and TM4 but both had Rob Zombie songs and the 4th part had a create a vehicle feature, albeit limited. They also had have better graphics (not really important on the grand scheme of things but still a plus)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Big Boss on 01/24/17 at 04:26:55
TM3 had a console-linking feature which was cool shit until it desyncs. The ability to use multi-tap with both of the games was nice but it ran like absolute shit if you did.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Richard -Dick- Biggs on 01/24/17 at 06:25:28
In TM3 I like new vehicles like Firestarter, Club Kid and Primeval. And Club Kid's special is great. Another thing awesome is the ricochets, they make you hop instead of giving you a push, and if they don't hit, they keep going for a long time.
I also like the redesigned Spectre, Darkside and Minion, but especially the design of Axel, that's the best looking Axel of all.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Archminion on 01/24/17 at 07:01:26
The London/Minion battle was enjoyable also. Pretty intense, especially if he teleported right next to you...

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by †Adonael on 01/24/17 at 10:05:41
Minions design in 3 was pretty rad. Too bad the writing wasn't as much.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by HiroHamada on 01/27/17 at 00:04:20
I too, liked the idea of Customizing Cars in Twisted Metal 4. I'm shocked they could never do something like that in future games. (Save for the skin thing in TM2012. Also, I liked Auger, he looked like he could have been a good 'Actual Twisted Metal car'. Trash man was not much of a good idea, but the car? A garbage truck in Twisted Metal?! Why couldn't that have been in another Twisted Metal but with a better special?! Crusher looked rad as well. I once read of someone here giving a good fan execution of him. I also liked how in TM3, Outlaw could hit multiple cars with the tazer.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Teh Rocky Guy on 01/30/17 at 20:37:03
-Cool new weapons (Mortar, Rain) and vehicles (i.e. Auger, Calypso, Firestarter)
-The Lightning weapon actually dealt good damage
-Some good levels (i.e. London, Blimp, Oil Rig)
-Some of the tracks fit the game really well (Mostly Lance Lenhart's and Rob Zombie's music; the other tracks didn't age as well in my opinion)
-TMIII's boss fights are pretty intense (even though there's this death pit that you can knock Primeval into)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Vlygar on 02/02/17 at 15:44:07
Both games had some good level designs.  They both also had some good songs on the soundtrack. 

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Ripzsaur on 02/13/17 at 21:20:15
I loved TM4. It had an awful grip on the Twisted Metal universe, but the game itself was great in my personal opinion. The handling was tight, the car designs were pretty cool albeit wrong for the TM universe, and the levels were thoroughly designed. I love Minion's Maze and the Carnival. Captain Grimm was an awesome car design, Drag Queen kicked ass, and the bosses on each level of old TM characters was interesting. i loved driving Orbital. A lot of the character's specials felt unique. It was a good game, but like Jaffe said, it wasnt a good TM game.

The stories were awful. None of the endings are remotely good. The game had a lot of clipping issues, especially the vehicles getting caught on walls etc. i liked weapons like Autolob, Rain 2 and the Speed missile. The AA commands were well mapped too, although I hate hopping between the different games in the series where they don't all line up. The worst thing about the game was the stories.

The menus were beautiful. I love the main theme and screen of TM4 almost as much as I love the menu to Black, which is absolutely beautiful.

On the otherhand, ALMOST  fuck TM3. A lot of the level designs were good. I liked London, Tokyo, and LA. I liked the vehicle designs of Club Kid, Roadkill, Minion, Spectre and Outlaw. But the overall game felt sluggish. The cars are harder to control and bounce around too much. Ive never been on my roof more in a TM game than this one. And the stories are god awful. Sweet Tooth with cavities? Flower Power eaten by plants? And Darkside wasnt playable without an Action Replay code which hurt. I always wanted to find a hidden unlockable for him when I was younger. I used to like TM3 more than I do now. Now it just feels too close to the TM it was supposed to be, but didnt hit the mark. TM4 on the otherhand felt different enough that I could forget about the oddities and just enjoy it as a game.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Thumpy on 02/17/17 at 23:15:28
No.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by †Adonael on 02/18/17 at 11:23:44
And Just to clarify because I am retarded. I don't like what they did with Calypso and sweet tooth in twisted metal 4. I just worded it shittly.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Magnum on 02/18/17 at 13:45:57
I'm with Thumpy. Just No.

Only because the site is so dead do I not even care there is a discussion of 3-4.

Fuck man. We are that old here? Jeez.....

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by †Adonael on 02/18/17 at 22:15:10
Put it in prospective mags. I was 21 when I joined. I'll be 27 this year. We're all old. Very very old.

That aside, I thought Prime Evil was a interesting looking car too bad there was no way to unlock it.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -SCoLD- on 02/27/17 at 17:52:14
I'm now 30 fucking 2. Cry me a river.

TM3 and TM4 were horseshit, and are one of the reasons Microsoft rose to fame during the PS3 error. Sony dropped the ball on some of their key franchises and I feel like the only people that enjoyed them were younger, easily entertained kids who didn't understand gameplay > story or gameplay > graphics. I know I had cousins younger than me that didn't mind playing it, but I played enough TM2 to know there was no depth. However I will say TM3/4 had one thing that TMPS3 2012 did not...

Missile Dodging.
::bows::

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Kratoscar2008 on 03/11/17 at 13:58:13
TM 3.

Loved
- The car selection screen is pretty cool. Would had liked if 3 had helicopter POV like TM 1&2 had and that you could play at that arena.

-The napalms were pretty good there, even if they missed they still caused some small explosions.

-Cars battled between themselves making things less one sided than TM 1&2.

-The game was still fun.

Hated.
- Cars loves to flip a LOT which is annoying and really brings the game down.
- The characters were terrible except Outlaw and Flower Power.
-Cars handle terribly. And with turbo even worse.
>The homming was really bad.

TM 4.

I loved everything but the characters. Only exception was Orbital and Quatro, those guys are welcome to other TMs.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by HiroHamada on 03/19/17 at 06:38:45
Twisted Metal 3-4

TM3:

Liked:
-Outlaw able to have multiple tazers work

Auger and Club Kid.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-Auger:
Liked:
--Special
--Car design
--Driver.

Hated:
-His ending

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-Club Kid:
Liked:
--Special
--Car design

Hated:
-Driver and ending

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

That's it.

--------------

HATED:
-Dang nearly everything else not listed.

++++++++++++

Twisted Metal 4:

LIKED:

-CAR CUSTOMIZATION!!

-Orbital and Quatro are okay, to say the least.

-Crusher, Trash Man, Moon Buggy.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-Crusher:
Liked:
--Special
--Car design

Hated:
-Name could replace 'er' with 'a'.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Trash man:
Liked:
--Car design (I mean, Come on! A GARBAGE TRUCK in Twisted Metal. What's not to like? ;D)

Hated:
-Driver and ending
-Special
-Name. I would have named him 'Trash Master'

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Moon Buggy:
Liked:
Car design.

Hated:
-tone down his special a little bit, will ya?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

That's all.
----------------

Hated: EVERYTHING ELSE.

Bonus:
I imagine Twisted Metal Black Warthog is The Jonses car Strapped to tank treads (After killing the Jonses.) ;)

That's all i got to say.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Archminion on 03/20/17 at 11:07:28
I liked your Jones/Warthog crossover.
I used to think the same and it'd be cool if this was actually canon.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by MoshfieldAsylum on 03/20/17 at 22:54:05

ヒロ・ハマダ wrote on 03/19/17 at 06:38:45:
-Name. I would have named him 'Trash Master'


I'd have gone with 'Trash Metal'

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Luis on 03/21/17 at 21:04:56
I like how Mr. Slam is in TM4. I still can't believe he's in there.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Muddeh on 03/22/17 at 10:27:38
Positive: They're two games in my CD rack with black labels that look pretty.

Negative: It takes half a second time to dust them every couple of months.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Big Boss on 03/22/17 at 22:24:22
Has anyone actually tried more than two players though? I'm sure the games are okay with more than two players for deathmatch and whatnot. I felt that 1v1s in the first two games were fun for a little bit but then got boring not too long after.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Luis on 03/22/17 at 23:06:40
TM4 4 players is laggy.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Big Boss on 03/22/17 at 23:25:51
I wonder if an overclocked PSX could fix that.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Mr. Cornbread on 10/03/17 at 22:55:25
The third and fourth TM games were kind of garbage fires because the first and especially second games, in spite of their flaws, were executed extremely well, and have a lot of imagination. Had they been the start of a separate IP, TM3/4 might have faired better. That said, they have a few redeeming qualities.

I think the concepts of the stages were good. TM3 continued the "world tour" approach and TM4 had some interesting gimmicks such as Sweet Tooth's room, the futuristic Neon City and the carnival map at the end. Problem is, they were really boxy and empty, lacking the dynamic, frequently inventive designs of the previous games.

The new weapons, such as the speed missiles, improved remote bomb, the environmental weapons and the multiple land mind types were great. I don't think any TM game has ever dropped the ball on weapon variety.

TM3 at least has a lot of classic characters, and the new ones such as Auger and and Firestarter aren't bad, as far as design/handling goes. I don't have much anything positive to say about the others, or the almost entirely new cast of TM4 which is frankly just too cartoonish.


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Manta Ray on 10/13/17 at 10:09:25
Twisted Metal 4 plays really well for a game that is not Twisted Metal. If they had marketed it as something else it wouldn't have gotten near the amount of hate it received. TMIII is a pile of garbage. The standard for bad car combat games.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Marltoro on 10/13/17 at 22:27:18
TM3 had the worst levels in TM history. Some of the levels from the prototype looked better than the levels we got in retail. It looks like they were going to make San Francisco at one point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZZZSjvejc

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Coleiosis on 10/14/17 at 14:59:35
Ironically, one of the TM3 levels was later reused in TMHO (Egypt to be specific). They also reused Tokyo, but split up into two different parts (rooftops and streets). :P

I will admit, TM4 has much better gameplay than TM3, although the control mapping is not the same as the rest of the series. However, I always change the mapping back to the original and save it that way.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by math_skill on 11/07/17 at 00:37:13
Cheats.

Holy shit TM3's physics cheats make it an A+ Twisted Metal game. So much stupid shit can happen.

Other than that, TM4 was okay and TM3 was pretty bad.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Dark Ede on 11/12/17 at 07:06:50
TM3 had NO qualities that I liked.

TM4 was an improvement over TM3 but was not worth investing my time into.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Skwid79 on 12/15/17 at 00:35:23
I'd say the levels were cool in both games aswell as the addition of Rob Zombie music. The main thing I took issue with in TM3 was that if you chose a big vehicle it moved excruciatingly slow and the endings outright sucked. I wont rag on the FMVs as it is a PS1 game.

I enjoyed the bonus maps you get for beating TM4 aswell and it's car creation as limited as it was. As a middle schooler I would make vehicles for me and all my friends and have my friends vehicles controlled by AI on those bonus maps. The downside to TM4 is the vehicle drivers are horribly silly but the vehicles themselves I found alright.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Immortal_Reaper on 02/03/18 at 05:57:49
One of the biggest things, which also didn't return in Black, was the ability to play a deathmatch between 4 people on one console, and also to be able to deathmatch vs CPUs during a split screen match. It was always annoying in TM 2 when we wanted to play on Hong Kong or the Jet Moto level against bots instead of just 1v1. I also liked the Create-A-Car back then and TM4's levels. But the controls and story in both were garbage.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Ripzsaur on 02/05/18 at 10:06:05

Fish20 (Darth612) wrote on 02/03/18 at 05:57:49:
One of the biggest things, which also didn't return in Black, was the ability to play a deathmatch between 4 people on one console, and also to be able to deathmatch vs CPUs during a split screen match. It was always annoying in TM 2 when we wanted to play on Hong Kong or the Jet Moto level against bots instead of just 1v1. I also liked the Create-A-Car back then and TM4's levels. But the controls and story in both were garbage.

4-Player Death Match was possible on TMB, just no CPU, as far as I know.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Malefactor on 02/05/18 at 20:49:19

Fish20 (Darth612) wrote on 02/03/18 at 05:57:49:
One of the biggest things, which also didn't return in Black, was the ability to play a deathmatch between 4 people on one console, and also to be able to deathmatch vs CPUs during a split screen match. It was always annoying in TM 2 when we wanted to play on Hong Kong or the Jet Moto level against bots instead of just 1v1. I also liked the Create-A-Car back then and TM4's levels. But the controls and story in both were garbage.


There was four player death match in Black, just no CPU.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by tmfan89 on 02/20/18 at 04:19:39
TM3 and TM4 had good soundtracks for licensed music. The soundtracks fit the ethos of the series and the late 90's. Although I think TM2's original tracks stand the test of time more.

The graphics of both games featured more detail and the weapons fly across the maps farther. Another positive was the AI. The AI in both games was better than TM1 and TM2. In TM1 and TM2 the cars seem to just wander the map and go after you when you are in their range. It's a very bland approach to AI. The TM3 and TM4 AI's from what I remember would go after health pickups and battle each other a little bit.

TM4 also had some decent level designs and customization options. The biggest issues for both games were the handling of the cars (TM4 adjusting the handling worked better but was still an issue), the level design (TM4 did have some unique levels), and the ethos and story of the series was completely fucked up (No compelling new characters and the stories were terrible.)

Overall I think that TM3 and TM4 were a moderately talented developers imitation of the series. They improved on somethings (Graphics and AI) but they completely missed the boat on other (Story, level design, and gameplay.)

A lot of casual fans fondly remember the 2 games even though they are the black sheep of the series. They just didn't add up to being good games or even get the ethos of the series right.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Infernal on 03/14/18 at 22:15:28
Looking back at it, I enjoyed these games as a child until I got ahold of TM2 a few years later. TM1 was my first game ever but watching the demo from TM3 made me think that it would be similar to TM1 but was I totally wrong...

TM3 Positives:
- Like others stated, very few levels in this game had good design (London, Blimp in particular). Although, I came across a video stated to be the TM3 beta with some of the original levels having greater design than its final release. You will even see it if you take a really close look at Egypt in the TM3 demo. Its final release was the worst level in TM history and nothing will top that IMO.
- I appreciated the AI actually chasing for the health pickups.
- Auger (vehicle only), Club Kid's special
- The LA remix and London music tracks. Lance Lenhart made some good music there.

TM3 Negatives:
- Wishes/stories are godawful. You can do some of them in real life already so why join the tournament?
- Lack of AA. Aside from invisibility, you can only freeze, rear, and jump. Major step back.
- Car flipping...
- No ram.
- Don't know if it was my copy but my game would constantly freeze, particularly if you fell to death.

I feel like this game had some potential as 989 had access to the SingleTrac engine originally based on the video posted by Marltoro but they had lost the rights of using that engine and had to start all over again. But that's all speculation at this point.

TM4 Positives:
- They learned from their mistakes somewhat in the physics and gameplay aspect. Cars didn't flip anymore but handling could've been better.
- Some cars had nice designs and finishers. The Super versions of old classics were nice.
- Level design was better this time around despite some of the silly stuff like that bedroom or the carnival.
- Custom car creator. The concept was nice but could've used work.
- MIRV/Rain 2/Auto Lob. These weapons were nice to use I will admit.

TM4 Negatives:
- Once again, the stories. Characters were even worse than TM3. Bosses had no characters so it was weird if you were someone like Super Thumper. Guess Bruce doesn't exist here or is dead?
- I remember the frame rate lagging tremendously if you kept lighting the acid pools on fire.
- Car creation feature was very limited.

(Both games ran slowly if you had at least 3 people playing at once.)

It seems like few of these ideas were recycled like the Auto Lob transforming into the Satellite in TMB and the Joneses vehicle design becoming a part of Warthog in TMB. These were not the best of games (TM3 in particular being the worst) but it did its temporary fulfillment for me at least. I still wonder what TM3 could have been working under its original build. I also wonder why I took so much time in writing this out or how I remember all this.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by †Adonael on 03/27/18 at 05:46:36
The fact the longer I stare at this image the more I laugh, because the head on TM3's sweet tooth looks constipated.


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 04/13/18 at 17:49:56
I didn't learn about these games until many years later. I only had Brawl as a kid, played 2 once when my friend brought it over, and had Black for about a week in third grade before my mother saw the cutscenes lol (namely the first Shadow one). When I heard there was a 3 and 4, and that it was ripped away from Singletrac and handed to 989, My thoughts jumped to Jet Moto 3, which was given the same treatment.

3 sucked, I have nothing to say about it. It's an empty 4.

4 was cool, and is the equivalent of JM3. I try to keep it seperate from the other TM in my mind because it's so different, but good in it's own way. I loved the boss at the end of every stage, and the fact you unlock all of them when you beat the game. Although I would have preferred an original soundtrack, like the first 2, but rob zombie is cool too. Speaking of which, you can play as Rob Zombie, they get points for that. I like the calypso/sweettooth switch, I figured it would happen eventually, a carnage-lover like sweet tooth wanting to take the contest, but the ending cutscene for calypso is dumb and confusing, like the rest of the crappy cutscenes. I love the maps in 4, especially Neon City, The Oil Rig, and The Citadel. Even though they are a bit lackluster and gimmicky, I love that you can unlock 8, count em, 8 fuckin maps once you beat the game. The create-a-car is cool, albeit limited. Playing with an AI homie is cool, until they get fucked later on. In coop, you still unlock the bosses/maps, but don't get to see ending movies, so I suppose you could look both charaters' up afterwards if you wanted to. I like that you can choose to have 4 lives each, or pool em, which is cool. Doing an all-boss deathmatch on the unlockable maps is cool.

fuck Moon Buggy

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by MoshfieldAsylum on 04/14/18 at 05:28:49

BrandoTG wrote on 04/13/18 at 17:49:56:
when I heard there was a 3 and 4, and that it was ripped away from Singletrac and handed to 989, My thoughts jumped to Jet Moto 3, which was given the same treatment.

4 was cool, and is the equivalent of JM3. I try to keep it seperate from the other TM in my mind because it's so different, but good in it's own way. I loved the boss at the end of every stage, and the fact you unlock all of them when you beat the game. Although I would have preferred an original soundtrack, like the first 2, but rob zombie is cool too. Speaking of which, you can play as Rob Zombie, they get points for that. I like the calypso/sweettooth switch, I figured it would happen eventually, a carnage-lover like sweet tooth wanting to take the contest, but the ending cutscene for calypso is dumb and confusing, like the rest of the crappy cutscenes. I love the maps in 4, especially Neon City, The Oil Rig, and The Citadel. Even though they are a bit lackluster and gimmicky, I love that you can unlock 8, count em, 8 fuckin maps once you beat the game. The create-a-car is cool, albeit limited. Playing with an AI homie is cool, until they get fucked later on. In coop, you still unlock the bosses/maps, but don't get to see ending movies, so I suppose you could look both charaters' up afterwards if you wanted to. I like that you can choose to have 4 lives each, or pool em, which is cool. Doing an all-boss deathmatch on the unlockable maps is cool.

fuck Moon Buggy


Agree on most of TM4's good points, except I really didn't like a boss per stage (and 2 on Oil Rig). and the SweetTooth as contest leader thing, I don't know, not crazy about it, but being able to play as Calypso was cool (crazy how 989 is the only one to try that). as a fan of Rob Zombie I also thought it was cool to play as him driving the Dragula. The maps are actually nicely designed despite the gameplay, and it's cool the game is loaded with multiplayer maps (that look Tron -ish). But yeah, TM4 despite being an improvement over TMIII still fails to capture the true Twisted Metal spirit so it feels like a standalone car combat game. It ditched the world tour concept, changed the history of the contest, changed Calypso's source of power, muted SweetTooth and gave him a crew of midgets, etc.

The thing with Jet Moto 3 though is it wasn't developed by 989 Studios. It was published by 989 Sports who got a nearby studio Pacific Coast Power & Light to develop the game (the guy heading that studio had worked on the Road Rash series). Singletrac had no interest in making Jet Moto 3 apparently.

I would compare Twisted Metal 3/4 more to the game 3Xtreme. 3Xtreme was a sequel to Sony's ESPN Extreme Games & 2Xtreme. Sony got 989 Studios to make 3Xtreme and they decided to design the characters with polygons as opposed to sprites which caused the graphics to slow the game down, so the series went from fast-paced racing to a dumbed down slow racing.

At least 989 Studios didn't make Warhawk 2 like they were planning to.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 04/14/18 at 08:39:31

MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 04/14/18 at 05:28:49:
Agree on most of TM4's good points, except I really didn't like a boss per stage (and 2 on Oil Rig). and the SweetTooth as contest leader thing, I don't know, not crazy about it, but being able to play as Calypso was cool (crazy how 989 is the only one to try that). as a fan of Rob Zombie I also thought it was cool to play as him driving the Dragula. The maps are actually nicely designed despite the gameplay, and it's cool the game is loaded with multiplayer maps (that look Tron -ish). But yeah, TM4 despite being an improvement over TMIII still fails to capture the true Twisted Metal spirit so it feels like a standalone car combat game. It ditched the world tour concept, changed the history of the contest, changed Calypso's source of power, muted SweetTooth and gave him a crew of midgets, etc.

The thing with Jet Moto 3 though is it wasn't developed by 989 Studios. It was published by 989 Sports who got a nearby studio Pacific Coast Power & Light to develop the game (the guy heading that studio had worked on the Road Rash series). Singletrac had no interest in making Jet Moto 3 apparently.

I would compare Twisted Metal 3/4 more to the game 3Xtreme. 3Xtreme was a sequel to Sony's ESPN Extreme Games & 2Xtreme. Sony got 989 Studios to make 3Xtreme and they decided to design the characters with polygons as opposed to sprites which caused the graphics to slow the game down, so the series went from fast-paced racing to a dumbed down slow racing.

At least 989 Studios didn't make Warhawk 2 like they were planning to.

Yeah, that's right, it was only pubbed by 989, I keep forgetting to mention that, like, it's in my head, but it doesn't register for some reason, heh. I meant it's the same in the sense that jm3 and tm4 are, in my mind, standalone games, rather than games that capture the essence of their predecessors, but are good in their own right. I remember hearing about beef between sony and singletrac being the reason tm3 was taken away. (I just looked it up, it's on the wikipedia page for the TM series, with no cited source, so I'm gonna take that one with a grain of salt 'til I get a source) (always gotta double-check facts lol)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by math_skill on 04/14/18 at 11:23:40

BrandoTG wrote on 04/14/18 at 08:39:31:
I meant it's the same in the sense that jm3 and tm4 are, in my mind, standalone games, rather than games that capture the essence of their predecessors, but are good in their own right.


I'm glad that I'm not the only person in the world who enjoyed Jet Moto 3. (honestly I think Jet Moto 3 is more fun than the first 2 games just because of the pacing and track design)

Fuck Planet X versus Expert AI though.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 04/14/18 at 17:54:56

math_skill wrote on 04/14/18 at 11:23:40:
I'm glad that I'm not the only person in the world who enjoyed Jet Moto 3. (honestly I think Jet Moto 3 is more fun than the first 2 games just because of the pacing and track design)

Fuck Planet X versus Expert AI though.

Hell yeah, Jet Moto 3 is great. I held a world record for a time on a track in that game, if only for a day. I got beat by one of the greats. Felt good to have friendly competition though.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by †Adonael on 04/14/18 at 19:47:26
http://jetmotocentral.proboards.com/thread/130/jet-moto-world-records

... :-?

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Richard -Dick- Biggs on 04/15/18 at 10:42:51

MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 04/14/18 at 05:28:49:
Agree on most of TM4's good points, except I really didn't like a boss per stage (and 2 on Oil Rig). and the SweetTooth as contest leader thing, I don't know, not crazy about it, but being able to play as Calypso was cool (crazy how 989 is the only one to try that).


I think it's cool as fuck to play as Calypso, but as a ten year old I wanted to use the train from the intro video, and I still want. I played a lot waiting for it to show as a secret final boss.


MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 04/14/18 at 05:28:49:
But yeah, TM4 despite being an improvement over TMIII still fails to capture the true Twisted Metal spirit so it feels like a standalone car combat game. It ditched the world tour concept


I also thought it was bad that TM4 lost the World Tour concept, but actually only three games used that anyway. I think it can be a bit limiting for devs creating maps, and the transition from 3 to 4 showed that; and then Black returned to the city concept from TM1.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 04/15/18 at 11:15:56

†Adonael wrote on 04/14/18 at 19:47:26:
http://jetmotocentral.proboards.com/thread/130/jet-moto-world-records

... :-?

Oh, it's still up there, I'm honored.
(Jet Moto 3: Devil's Canyon)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Vlygar on 04/29/18 at 18:41:24
From the comment in this thread, it seems everyone enjoys TM4 more than TM3.  Odd, because I prefer TM3.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Psycho Se7eN on 11/06/18 at 16:46:20
The only thing I liked about TM3/4 was they were graphically a little better when compared to TM 1/2. Otherwise, garbage. Absolute garbage.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Thumpy on 11/07/18 at 14:00:10
I purchased both tm3 and tm4, returned them both to the store within three hours for a full refund.

I'm not joking.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Equinox on 11/07/18 at 15:54:33
I think Twisted Metal 3's only good thing was that rain missiles were actually useful as compared to TM 4. Twisted Metal 4 on the other had is a great simply because there are so many different weapons to kill your enemies with. I wish the original team would have kept some of the weapons as they are super fun to use. The level design was also way better than Twisted Metal 3 but both games suffered from pacing issues.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 03/09/19 at 09:16:12
TM3 was better then TM4 989 tryed to keep the foundation of the game so it did "appear" to be a TM and Rob Zombie did fit well in TM but as for TM4 989 said throw everything out and lets just do whatever the fuck we want case in point characters like Drag Queen.... or Meter Maid....

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Dark Ede on 03/10/19 at 06:42:17
Like Thumpy I gave TM3 a chance. Graphics were an improvement despite not caring for the new designs. I lasted longer, a week or so just to see if I was having some mental block to getting into the game. Nope. Game was crap, pure crap.

Played TM4 at Target for maybe 15 minutes, thought the vehicles controlled better than TM3 but had no desire to bring the game home.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Shalashaska on 03/16/19 at 19:18:33
Twisted Metal 3 is the better game overall. Playing 1v1 in TM3 is a lot better/competitive than TM4 stupid special weapons.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by chainarmor712 on 04/07/19 at 02:56:49
I never owned TM4, but I played it a decent bit. I could never really get over the vomit inducing characters and stories in TM4 (even at eight years old, that’s how bad TM4 was in that department). I never asked my parents for the game, and fell out of touch with TM for a while as there was no way I was going to be allowed to get Black at the time.

TM3, even if an objectively worse game, still felt like a TM-esque game with the world locations and familiar cars. I was too young at the time to really recognize the inferiority of TM3 to the official games, or to realize the developer was different. Similarly, the quickness and added homing capacity of the weapons was appreciated by younger me.

I remember the graphics, ai, weapon variety, and mode customization options of TM3 to be above TM2. As dumb as it sounds in retrospect, the voice acting of Calypso during the level starts as well as the voiceovers of the character select screen gave more of a personality to the story than TM2. Mind you, I was young and often was never able to beat TM2 to see the end cutscenes and learn more about the characters. I remember actually being scared of a lot of them as they were pretty dark. TM3 definitely went more after the kids in the story department.

TM3 also had a few cars (not characters) that I think were legitimately good ideas. I loved Auger, and his story of revenge against Twisted Metal for tearing down his life’s work reminded me of something that could have worked legitimately in a mainline game with some tweaks. Same with Firestarter (rip Keith Flint of Prodigy, who inspired the character), the concept was stupid in execution but the groundwork was there for a great car (hot rod driven by pyromaniac psycho). Club Kid had an interesting special, and he was stupid too but could have worked out in the same manner if tweaked. I’ll go out on a limb and say that the Granny Dread character was cool also, she was more memorable to me than the stoners of the last two games. The less said of Flower Power, the better.

The music of TM3 is a mixed bag, as I find it to be better than Black’s but not as good as TM 1 or 2. The menu theme is legitimately one of the best songs in Twisted Metal period, and there aren’t any really bad songs other than perhaps the UFO level theme.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by MoshfieldAsylum on 04/08/19 at 22:58:36

chainarmor712 wrote on 04/07/19 at 02:56:49:
I never owned TM4, but I played it a decent bit. I could never really get over the vomit inducing characters and stories in TM4 (even at eight years old, that’s how bad TM4 was in that department). I never asked my parents for the game, and fell out of touch with TM for a while as there was no way I was going to be allowed to get Black at the time.

TM3, even if an objectively worse game, still felt like a TM-esque game with the world locations and familiar cars. I was too young at the time to really recognize the inferiority of TM3 to the official games, or to realize the developer was different. Similarly, the quickness and added homing capacity of the weapons was appreciated by younger me.

I remember the graphics, ai, weapon variety, and mode customization options of TM3 to be above TM2. As dumb as it sounds in retrospect, the voice acting of Calypso during the level starts as well as the voiceovers of the character select screen gave more of a personality to the story than TM2. Mind you, I was young and often was never able to beat TM2 to see the end cutscenes and learn more about the characters. I remember actually being scared of a lot of them as they were pretty dark. TM3 definitely went more after the kids in the story department.

TM3 also had a few cars (not characters) that I think were legitimately good ideas. I loved Auger, and his story of revenge against Twisted Metal for tearing down his life’s work reminded me of something that could have worked legitimately in a mainline game with some tweaks. Same with Firestarter (rip Keith Flint of Prodigy, who inspired the character), the concept was stupid in execution but the groundwork was there for a great car (hot rod driven by pyromaniac psycho). Club Kid had an interesting special, and he was stupid too but could have worked out in the same manner if tweaked. I’ll go out on a limb and say that the Granny Dread character was cool also, she was more memorable to me than the stoners of the last two games. The less said of Flower Power, the better.

The music of TM3 is a mixed bag, as I find it to be better than Black’s but not as good as TM 1 or 2. The menu theme is legitimately one of the best songs in Twisted Metal period, and there aren’t any really bad songs other than perhaps the UFO level theme.


if Twisted Metal III's gameplay were good or had 989 had access to Singletrac's TM engine and the endings were not so stupid and the voice acting not so poor yeah, it'd be a good Twisted Metal game. 

TM3 pretty much doesn't do anything different with the general story. It repeats the world tour concept from 2, keeps Calypso in his blimp, and brings back 10 drivers (Marcus and Needles Kane, Jamie and Carl Roberts, Grimm, Bruce, Axel, Minion, Mr. Ash, and Captain Rogers). It also adds Granny Dread driving Hammerhead who was inspired by Granny Dark, a TM2 character that never made it past the Concept Art stage (presumably she would have driven Darkside).

As for mode customization
The whole CPU Ally idea was kind of neat as it allowed a single player to feel like he or she were playing co-op tournament with a friend. I kinda wish a better TM game had the option.

Now on to the soundtrack -
The soundtrack of 3 is remembered as the first Twisted Metal to introduce popular music into the soundtrack with the addition of Rob Zombie, and Pitchshifter songs, and thus this game's soundtrack gets a lot of criticism. However what gets lost in the analysis is that a third of the soundtrack is by Lance Lenhart. Lance is not just a random dude, he is the Twisted Metal guitarist from The Pinnacle Group, Singletrac's music group featuring Chuck E. Meyers and Tom Hopkins who did music for their games (TM, Jet Moto, Warhawk) and subsequently for Incog Inc. Lance Lenhart does the TM3 main theme, and the songs in London and Egypt (pretty sure Chuck and Tom are involved too but Lance got the lead in TM3 for whatever reason)... AND Lance is playing lead guitar in the Rob Zombie remix of "More Human Than Human", yet he never gets credit for that for whatever reason even though the additional guitar is what makes that track so dope. I mean, hasn't anybody wondered why the remix of "More Human Than Human" sounds nothing like the original White Zombie track and why it is an exclusive TM3 track?


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Ethan Loch on 01/16/20 at 01:05:45
The moves work.


BrandoTG wrote on 04/15/18 at 11:15:56:
Oh, it's still up there, I'm honored.
(Jet Moto 3: Devil's Canyon)


Down there, as far as I can see anyway.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/16/20 at 09:02:24

Ethan Loch wrote on 01/16/20 at 01:05:45:
The moves work.


Down there, as far as I can see anyway.

hoohohoh its on now, B, I might be back to take that record some day.


I have recently played TM3 and TM4 again, and have come to the conclusion that TM2 sucks, objectively, in every possible way except story. I dunno about how it hangs against HO or 2012, but as far as ps1 TM games go TM2 is probably the worst, if not TM1.

The moves in 3&4 do work, all of the time, as opposed to tm2's combo moves which often refuse to work, regardless of the speed I input them in. It gets worse in splitscreen. I believe it has something to do with the framerate, as I've noticed the handling of my car got weird too when the performance dropped. I've also had grasshopper and slam's special miss for no reason, even if the opponent is perfectly in range. I've even seen the AI waste grasshopper's special and just jump in front of me but never home in.
The AI in tm2 is both mindless and completely broken, using infinite freeze missiles and other weapons whenever they want half of the time, and the other half dropping ricochets and hitting themselves with them. Axel and outlaw using their special 300 times is most noticable bc they dont shut up when they use them.
I'm convinced the AI do almost no damage, if any at all, to eachother, taking away any sense of a FFA atmosphere.
There's no reason everyone in holland should be alive after 2 minutes or so of running around, or an AI who you let run off with a tiny sliver of health but they never die. Especially after playing tm3 and wondering where certain AI went.
The physics make no sense, I can do a 180 mid air and as soon as I hit the ground I'll shoot off into the direction I'm facing when I land, unless i tap handbrake mid-air. Love getting stuck on invisible walls too, especially ones that the game lets me ride through right after they stop me.
The game looks like dogshit, and the framerate is atrocious, especially compared to the 989 TM games and Jet Moto 3, they could have done so much better, even on ps1, but they didn't.

Compare it to tm3&4, where the AI do all sorts of insane but fair and strategic moves, the combos you do w o r k as intended, I can knock people over/be knocked over in TM3, and do crazy air-turbo shortcuts in tm4. How I hit bumps can make my car barrel roll for real, and I can predict and control it. Its a bit weird at first but once I got the hang of it, I really appreciated the actual physics engine, and it was never ever painful to play, unlike tm2 which I wanted so hard to like, but it was painful to try and play through. Nothing in tm3 or tm4 ever broke the flow of gameplay, if I got up against a wall I could jump off it, and if I got knocked off early on I could hyperspace. There's nothing like racing thumper for the health in tm3 and just barely grabbing it before he does. Or the AI knocking you over and then turboing off for the health.

The endings I've seen so far were kind of lame in tm3, and awful in tm4, save for a gem or two, but I liked the calypso track intros, and the track design itself was much nicer in tm3, even the "eh" tracks like hangar 18 or egypt really are interesting and fun to play, and are much better than a literal flat plane or a bowl. The tracks in tm4 are nice and varied too, and I love the unlockable ones. TM4 is a bit more quantity over quality but the quality isnt horrible either, and the create-a-car system is great fun. The remappable controls in tm4 should be a must for every game imo.

I wish I could say tm2 was fun despite its flaws, but when it comes down to life or death and the shield decides not to work or the AI decide to shoot 300 freeze missiles for free, or I get stuck on an invisible wall bc the collision decides to crap out for no reason, it ruins the game. It's a shame bc I grew up with it and used to love it as a kid, and part of me still does, because when it works it can be really fun, but the flaws make it so painful, its just not worth it. A good game is fun even when you lose. If only I knew when I was a kid how shit it really was. It might be better online, but I highly doubt it.

Objectively speaking, TM3 and TM4 are much much better, at least gameplay-wise, than TM2.
3 and 4 are very similar, yet play different enough to where they feel like different games, and I like playing both, and they're both good in their own way.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/17/20 at 15:53:50

BrandoTG wrote on 01/16/20 at 09:02:24:
hoohohoh its on now, B, I might be back to take that record some day.


I have recently played TM3 and TM4 again, and have come to the conclusion that TM2 sucks, objectively, in every possible way except story. I dunno about how it hangs against HO or 2012, but as far as ps1 TM games go TM2 is probably the worst, if not TM1.

The moves in 3&4 do work, all of the time, as opposed to tm2's combo moves which often refuse to work, regardless of the speed I input them in. It gets worse in splitscreen. I believe it has something to do with the framerate, as I've noticed the handling of my car got weird too when the performance dropped. I've also had grasshopper and slam's special miss for no reason, even if the opponent is perfectly in range. I've even seen the AI waste grasshopper's special and just jump in front of me but never home in.
The AI in tm2 is both mindless and completely broken, using infinite freeze missiles and other weapons whenever they want half of the time, and the other half dropping ricochets and hitting themselves with them. Axel and outlaw using their special 300 times is most noticable bc they dont shut up when they use them.
I'm convinced the AI do almost no damage, if any at all, to eachother, taking away any sense of a FFA atmosphere.
There's no reason everyone in holland should be alive after 2 minutes or so of running around, or an AI who you let run off with a tiny sliver of health but they never die. Especially after playing tm3 and wondering where certain AI went.
The physics make no sense, I can do a 180 mid air and as soon as I hit the ground I'll shoot off into the direction I'm facing when I land, unless i tap handbrake mid-air. Love getting stuck on invisible walls too, especially ones that the game lets me ride through right after they stop me.
The game looks like dogshit, and the framerate is atrocious, especially compared to the 989 TM games and Jet Moto 3, they could have done so much better, even on ps1, but they didn't.

Compare it to tm3&4, where the AI do all sorts of insane but fair and strategic moves, the combos you do w o r k as intended, I can knock people over/be knocked over in TM3, and do crazy air-turbo shortcuts in tm4. How I hit bumps can make my car barrel roll for real, and I can predict and control it. Its a bit weird at first but once I got the hang of it, I really appreciated the actual physics engine, and it was never ever painful to play, unlike tm2 which I wanted so hard to like, but it was painful to try and play through. Nothing in tm3 or tm4 ever broke the flow of gameplay, if I got up against a wall I could jump off it, and if I got knocked off early on I could hyperspace. There's nothing like racing thumper for the health in tm3 and just barely grabbing it before he does. Or the AI knocking you over and then turboing off for the health.

The endings I've seen so far were kind of lame in tm3, and awful in tm4, save for a gem or two, but I liked the calypso track intros, and the track design itself was much nicer in tm3, even the "eh" tracks like hangar 18 or egypt really are interesting and fun to play, and are much better than a literal flat plane or a bowl. The tracks in tm4 are nice and varied too, and I love the unlockable ones. TM4 is a bit more quantity over quality but the quality isnt horrible either, and the create-a-car system is great fun. The remappable controls in tm4 should be a must for every game imo.

I wish I could say tm2 was fun despite its flaws, but when it comes down to life or death and the shield decides not to work or the AI decide to shoot 300 freeze missiles for free, or I get stuck on an invisible wall bc the collision decides to crap out for no reason, it ruins the game. It's a shame bc I grew up with it and used to love it as a kid, and part of me still does, because when it works it can be really fun, but the flaws make it so painful, its just not worth it. A good game is fun even when you lose. If only I knew when I was a kid how shit it really was. It might be better online, but I highly doubt it.

Objectively speaking, TM3 and TM4 are much much better, at least gameplay-wise, than TM2.
3 and 4 are very similar, yet play different enough to where they feel like different games, and I like playing both, and they're both good in their own way.


Hey, every series, franchise, movie, book . . . whatever . . .

has THAT guy.

With Twisted Metal, that guy is you. Congratulations.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Infernal on 01/18/20 at 05:20:44
TM3 is cheap as hell, what do you mean?

All I have to do is pick either Axel or Outlaw and it's over.

(Come to think of it, Axel is basically the god of TM)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 01/18/20 at 13:38:22
I have to say the music, but I'm a fan of Rob Zombie and White Zombie. The rest of it was shit. TM4 went from bad to worse but they had a good song on the Amazon level.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 03:12:22

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/17/20 at 15:53:50:
Hey, every series, franchise, movie, book . . . whatever . . .

has THAT guy.

With Twisted Metal, that guy is you. Congratulations.

The guy that actually plays a game and judges it based on its functionality and playability instead of going by nostalgia alone?
How about next time, specify, instead of saying nonsense that could literally be said about anyone and means absolutely nothing.
If you think TM2 isn't shit, and I'm wrong, tell me, dispute one of my points. Show me the AI having limited freeze ammo; show me that my ps1 and tm2 disc are broken and your's actually runs at 30+fps and doesn't look like shit, show me the AI killing eachother as fast as they kill you in holland, show me that I've been dreaming and you can't do a 180 mid-air and shift all your momentum when you hit the ground. Show me that I can fire freeze missiles out my side and my ass like the AI.
Show me that the game doesn't suck, that'll be great, bc I wanna love this game, or rather, I want the game I grew up with to be lovable.


Infernal wrote on 01/18/20 at 05:20:44:
TM3 is cheap as hell, what do you mean?

All I have to do is pick either Axel or Outlaw and it's over.

(Come to think of it, Axel is basically the god of TM)

I'm not sure what you mean by "cheap", I'll have to give outlaw and axel a shot, I mainly play warthog or club kid, both of which are good imo, but I've given flower power and some of the others a try, and they don't seem too bad either.
I can't really say how tm3 is in a competitive atmosphere, as I haven't had the chance to play any good human players yet.

I do like the music in TM3, the rob zombie stuff is good but the Pitchshifter stuff is by far my favorite. I don't know why it seems to fit tm3's atmosphere so well but it does, for me anyway.
I always prefer original music, and not licensed stuff, but the licensed stuff in 3 isnt bad. Dunno about 4 tho, some of the ones I did hear were kinda "eh", so I usually watch batman TAS while i play 4, rather than listen to music.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 09:05:50

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 03:12:22:
The guy that actually plays a game and judges it based on its functionality and playability instead of going by nostalgia alone?


We've all played it.


BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 03:12:22:
How about next time, specify, instead of saying nonsense


It wasn't nonsense. You clearly understood what I'm saying. Quit using hyperbole. Simply put, in the Twisted Metal universe you're analogous to a guy claiming Bach sucks. You're entitled to your opinion, but you ARE in the minority. I treated you as the minority, because you are.

Why get offended about the truth?


BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 03:12:22:
If you think TM2 isn't shit, and I'm wrong, tell me, dispute one of my points.



Why? Because if I do YOU will suddenly magically like it and think it's amazing?

Get over yourself. I've been here since 2001. I have pages and pages contained in here on why X Twisted Metal rocks and X Twisted Metal sucks.

I'm sorry I wasn't interested in debating you about TM2 . . .I'm just not. I've had this conversation a million times before about the strengths and weaknesses of each Twisted and your post didn't have enough to make me feel like it was worth engaging on anything beyond a superficial level.

Which I did. I pointed out, rightly so, that you are a small voice fighting back the tide.

That isn't to say that that can't be worthwhile. Maybe someday you'll persuade us all. Probably not, but it's possible.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 09:21:05

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 09:05:50:
B-B-But I agree with the majority s-so I'm right, right? I don't have to give reasons bc others agree with me!!

It's objectively a beyond shit game, and you have no argument. Your only "argument" is that others agree with you. It's not a matter of opinion, it's shit, take the nostalgia goggles off.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 09:22:29

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 09:21:05:
It's objectively a beyond shit game, and you have no argument. Your only "argument" is that others agree with you. It's not a matter of opinion, it's shit, take the nostalgia goggles off.


Objectively speaking, you don't seem to be able to read.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Infernal on 01/19/20 at 09:40:27

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 03:12:22:
I'm not sure what you mean by "cheap", I'll have to give outlaw and axel a shot, I mainly play warthog or club kid, both of which are good imo, but I've given flower power and some of the others a try, and they don't seem too bad either.
I can't really say how tm3 is in a competitive atmosphere, as I haven't had the chance to play any good human players yet.


It would be a horrific experience. In terms of AA, you have only freeze, jump, rear attack, and invisibility...and this is supposed to be the sequel, not going backwards. Once you get flipped, it's practically over. Let's put it this way. I've played with a group of pals and I never lost unless someone picked Minion.
If there's one thing TM4 got right, it's that they made your car instantly flip when it was on its topside. That and more AA, since I had already mentioned it.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 13:09:10

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 09:22:29:
Objectively speaking, you don't seem to be able to read.

The projecting is unreal, lol. You'll get the hang of cognitive thought eventually, just keep trying.


Infernal wrote on 01/19/20 at 09:40:27:
It would be a horrific experience. In terms of AA, you have only freeze, jump, rear attack, and invisibility...and this is supposed to be the sequel, not going backwards. Once you get flipped, it's practically over. Let's put it this way. I've played with a group of pals and I never lost unless someone picked Minion.
If there's one thing TM4 got right, it's that they made your car instantly flip when it was on its topside. That and more AA, since I had already mentioned it.

I do kind of feel like the shield was only implemented bc of the broken AI in TM2, so I don't mind it being gone too much, especially considering the homing on the missiles seems weak at times, iirc depending on the angle, so I could always dodge them.
I suppose so long as its even, it wouldn't be terrible to have faster rounds, necessarily. Think of something like Bushido Blade. I recall playing TM2 and both players having to wait for eachother's long ass shields to wear off before attacking again, so maybe thats still messing with me. I wonder if axel/outlaw's special would come in handy if you got knocked over, that might put them a league above the rest on its own. I think sweet tooth is prone to being knocked over though. I see, now, that it might become a problem with the vehicle balancing if flipping was so fatal. I have to admit flipping people and AI is loads of fun though. I've even seen the AI turbo into me and knock me over before running for the health once. It was likely on accident but with all of the cool stuff I see the AI in 3&4 do, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they coded that in.
All this talk of TM3 makes me want to play it some more. I'll see if I can get that ps1 emu with netplay running so I can play with the guys, although in my experience netplay often leads to unsynced games, and that was back when I had good internet, I can't imagine it working now. I'll definitely have to give it a shot with my gf sometime.

I do like the extra AA in TM4, especially hyperspace, since it stops the AI from being too easy on tracks with pits, and stops you from dying after missing a jump or falling victim to a clever orbital shot.
I think the reverse massive attack and reverse freeze are nice too, pairs especially nice with the rear-view, iirc.

On another note, I love that in TM3 I have the freedom to choose whether I want to fight Primeval legitimately or pull/knock him out of the blimp. I wish sweet tooth in tm4 gave me that freedom lol

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 13:23:11

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 13:09:10:
The projecting is unreal, lol. You'll get the hang of cognitive thought eventually, just keep trying.


What's unreal is how boring you are.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 14:10:21

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 13:23:11:
What's unreal is how boring you are.


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 14:20:37
OMG . . . and responding with Jaffe's face . . . :o :o :o

It's officially hump week. That's the big plus for today.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 14:24:19

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 09:05:50:
Get over yourself. I've been here since 2001. I have pages and pages contained in here on why X Twisted Metal rocks and X Twisted Metal sucks.

HOL UP I MISSED THIS SOMEHOW

fucking 40 posts, and you tell me to get over myself i n  t h e  s a m e  s e n t e n c e?
The projecting was unreal before I even realized it.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 14:32:08
You're back to you're "projecting" claim?

That was weak material to start with. You're not going to get much of it now.

Your posts themselves are so weird . . . you start out as far as I can tell kind of trashing TM3 and TM4 and praising the standard games like most of us . . . then this vitriol seems to creep in for Incog . . . slowly you start praising TM3 and TM4 and bashing the accepted canon until now you all out burn TM2 at the stake . . .

Was this your REAL character arc? Or were you just a poser all along?

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 14:37:30

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 14:32:08:
You're back to you're "projecting" claim?

That was weak material to start with. You're not going to get much of it now.

Your posts themselves are so weird . . . you start out as far as I can tell kind of trashing TM3 and TM4 and praising the standard games like most of us . . . then this vitriol seems to creep in for Incog . . . slowly you start praising TM3 and TM4 and bashing the accepted canon until now you all out burn TM2 at the stake . . .

Was this your REAL character arc? Or were you just a poser all along?

Right, except you still did it, whether it was weak or not. Try again.

hol up check this, you said about your posts and I found this beauty.
"Fans like myself, care far more about how it plays."
Yet you play TM2? Are you actually disabled in some way?

Ah yes, I went from blindly shitting on a game and praising one I grew up with, and now I actually think about how a game plays, and try to judge it based on its actual worth instead of blindly shrugging off dumb mechanics and sucking a game's dick.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 14:42:51
This is like communicating with one of those online artificial intelligences.

The words keep coming, yet it's clear you don't actual respond to what was given to you.

Nothing you have said about my responses has come even close to what was typed. Plus you're trashing me for loving a game that basically EVERYONE on here loves. So you're holding your middle finger up to the whole room.

They're just too bored to care. Even more bored than I am.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 14:51:21

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 14:42:51:
This is like communicating with one of those online artificial intelligences.

The words keep coming, yet it's clear you don't actual respond to what was given to you.

Nothing you have said about my responses has come even close to what was typed. Plus you're trashing me for loving a game that basically EVERYONE on here loves. So you're holding your middle finger up to the whole room.

They're just too bored to care. Even more bored than I am.


Considering your history of projecting, and the fact you are doing so right now, proves to me you are simply trolling. You've taken the words out of my mouth before I said them several times.

So in the case you are trolling, congrats, you're very clever.
In the case you aren't, I would consider medical and mental help bc you might be having a stroke, and/or are actually undiagnosed with some or all forms of retardation.

However, in the case you're serious, I'm not bashing you for liking tm2, I'm bashing you for saying it's good. You have not responded to anything I've said thus far, and instead try to project on me, which is a fantastic tactic if you're trolling, bc it is entirely believable someone could be that retarded, but if not...

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 14:52:43
Are you just going to respond to everything with "projecting?"

Are you some sort of 80's psychology nut?

Sooner or later it will do what you want, I'll quit replying, but nobody will be fooled. I doubt even yourself.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 14:55:28

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 14:52:43:
Are you just going to respond to everything with "projecting?"

Are you some sort of 80's psychology nut?

Sooner or later it will do what you want, I'll quit replying, but nobody will be fooled. I doubt even yourself.

Keep trying, it won't get you anywhere, you've already blown your cover by trying to project that I was a poser, which told me you were, since that was your strategy.

You call out everything I think of as an argument for you before you even do it, which means you know ahead of time.

I got you, B, you had me goin for a bit tho.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 14:56:09

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 14:55:28:
Keep trying, it won't get you anywhere, you've already blown your cover by trying to project that I was a poser, which told me you were, since that was your strategy.

You call out everything I think of as an argument for you before you even do it, which means you know ahead of time.

I got you, B, you had me goin for a bit tho.


I have no clue in hell what game you're even playing now.


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 15:13:03

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 14:56:09:
I have no clue in hell what game you're even playing now.

You can't, B, I got ya.

You knew what you were saying was dumb, bc you were calling me out on stuff you know you were doing, a.k.a, projecting. Thats a good strat to piss someone off, but you called me a poser, unfortunately for you I figured out your little game and realized you were in fact, messing with me, bc I hadn't thought of that yet, and that meant you were posing.
Plus you said "I've been here since 2001", and I dunno about YOU B, but dat account say you joined in 2018. You led me right to the evidence. I commend you for giving it a good shot, though.

A few years ago I might've called you out on it immediately, but, I've talked to so many people who turn out to be absolutely unironically retarded, it amazes me, and now I honestly don't know who's fucking around anymore. It's kind of depressing. Like, I actually met people who project, dodge questions, etc, unironically. Garbage ass try-hard trolling became half decent trolling.


On another note tho, for the record, TM2 isn't awful in every sense, I do like the way it controls sometimes, so it can be fun as a multiplayer game, if the AA worked all the time. As far as a singleplayer experience goes though, its fucking garbage. Dark Tooth was ok tho.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 15:17:13

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 15:13:03:
You can't, B, I got ya.

You knew what you were saying was dumb, bc you were calling me out on stuff you know you were doing, a.k.a, projecting. Thats a good strat to piss someone off, but you called me a poser, unfortunately for you I figured out your little game and realized you were in fact, messing with me, bc I hadn't thought of that yet, and that meant you were posing.
Plus you said "I've been here since 2001", and I dunno about YOU B, but dat account say you joined in 2018. You led me right to the evidence. I commend you for giving it a good shot, though.

A few years ago I might've called you out on it immediately, but, I've talked to so many people who turn out to be absolutely unironically retarded, it amazes me, and now I honestly don't know who's fucking around anymore. It's kind of depressing. Like, I actually met people who project, dodge questions, etc, unironically. Garbage ass try-hard trolling became half decent trolling.


On another note tho, for the record, TM2 isn't awful in every sense, I do like the way it controls sometimes, so it can be fun as a multiplayer game, if the AA worked all the time. As far as a singleplayer experience goes though, its fucking garbage. Dark Tooth was ok tho.


Uhh . . . wow. I've seen people take a shotgun approach to wall brawling but it never ceases to amaze me.

Like so many others, you just keep missing the target though.

You can ask any longtime person here - I've been here since 2001. SO . . . if you look stupid there . . . maybe you're wrong and look stupid everywhere?

This is so irrelevant to the entire thing, but chew on this data. See if you can find it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060430072649/http://www.tmalliance.com/tmbo/general.shtml

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 15:37:03

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 15:17:13:
Uhh . . . wow. I've seen people take a shotgun approach to wall brawling but it never ceases to amaze me.

Like so many others, you just keep missing the target though.

You can ask any longtime person here - I've been here since 2001. SO . . . if you look stupid there . . . maybe you're wrong and look stupid everywhere?

This is so irrelevant to the entire thing, but chew on this data. See if you can find it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060430072649/http://www.tmalliance.com/tmbo/general.shtml

Nice, you been here a while.

But you still messin with me, you can't be serious, noone is that retarded. I've been surprised before, but I think this time, you're smarter than you're letting on. Noone projects that hard.

That bit about being stupid everywhere, while its a shit argument if used seriously, is good advice, a person should take a step back and double check and whatnot, lest they be wrong. I do it all the time, I think I have been wrong on one or two occasions though, its why I almost always try to get footage of stuff, and why I always say "could be", "if", and "iirc".

A good troll knows when he's defeated, but an even better one leaves them wondering if they were at all, I'll give you that, although, you haven't fooled me. (Well, not anymore, anyway.)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by -Kilrahi- on 01/19/20 at 16:00:32
What are you, six?

You make an error and just jump right back into a screaming banshee of nonsense. A self aware person might slow down for 10 seconds and do a head check.

One thing is certain though, we're derailing this thread and we'll get stuck in brawl if it continues. SO . . .

In logic/debate there is this concept of "burden of proof" when you are not the "status quo."

Pretty much everyone here is the status quo - we love TM2 and this entire website exists because of it. It is FULL of mountains of reasons why we think it's an excellent game.

It is your job to prove your point - YOU have the burden of proof. NOT us.

I do not feel you have established anything, so I'm leaving. IF you say anything that I think could be persuasive, I'll jump back in. 

However, if anyone else on this board has been impressed with "That Guy's" evidence and would like to engage him on his TM2 arguments, feel free to do so. I will get out of your way.

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by BrandoTG on 01/19/20 at 16:26:14

-Kilrahi- wrote on 01/19/20 at 16:00:32:
What are you, six?

You make an error and just jump right back into a screaming banshee of nonsense. A self aware person might slow down for 10 seconds and do a head check.

One thing is certain though, we're derailing this thread and we'll get stuck in brawl if it continues. SO . . .

In logic/debate there is this concept of "burden of proof" when you are not the "status quo."

Pretty much everyone here is the status quo - we love TM2 and this entire website exists because of it. It is FULL of mountains of reasons why we think it's an excellent game.

It is your job to prove your point - YOU have the burden of proof. NOT us.

I do not feel you have established anything, so I'm leaving. IF you say anything that I think could be persuasive, I'll jump back in. 

However, if anyone else on this board has been impressed with "That Guy's" evidence and would like to engage him on his TM2 arguments, feel free to do so. I will get out of your way.


What time is it? Not-gonna-work-o-clock.


Regardless, here's a delightful clip I recorded recently for anyone else interested.
https://imgur.com/ASYbxK2
I assume it has something to do with the AI wanting to freeze me for a special, but slam never realizes he has already frozen me so he'll keep doing it, usually until I'm dead.
Even then, that can't be true bc roadkill does it too.

I was testing a graphical mod I was making for myself, and I had to stop testing the cars with roadkill as my opponent bc he would do that constantly.

(and before you get any bright ideas, it's purely a graphical mod)

Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Magnum on 01/22/20 at 09:16:03
Why? Because if I do YOU will suddenly magically like it and think it's amazing?

Get over yourself. I've been here since 2001. I have pages and pages contained in here on why X Twisted Metal rocks and X Twisted Metal sucks.

I'm sorry I wasn't interested in debating you about TM2 . . .I'm just not. I've had this conversation a million times before about the strengths and weaknesses of each Twisted and your post didn't have enough to make me feel like it was worth engaging on anything beyond a superficial level.

Which I did. I pointed out, rightly so, that you are a small voice fighting back the tide.

That isn't to say that that can't be worthwhile. Maybe someday you'll persuade us all. Probably not, but it's possible.

Good luck.

:::::::eating popcorn:::::::

The fuck?!?! This shitty movie again? Man. I remember these arguments on this site almost 20 years ago.

They were much more vicious but, still suck.

JUST LIKE TM3-4 DO!!!!!! HUR HUR HUR HUR


Title: Re: Did TM3/4 have any qualities that you liked?
Post by Serpentine3 on 01/29/20 at 18:05:55

BrandoTG wrote on 01/19/20 at 16:26:14:
(and before you get any bright ideas, it's purely a graphical mod)


No one cares. Not if it's some pixelated image of your impacted, stretched out vagina.

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