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Message started by Hippie HE-MAN on 11/07/16 at 14:59:15

Title: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Hippie HE-MAN on 11/07/16 at 14:59:15
i would have to say 4. the controls were crap, the stories were crap, the characters where crap (even the returning ones) and honestly i can go on and on and on and on about how horrible this game is. bout the only thing i liked about it was the soundtrack.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by TWISTEDCREECH96 on 11/08/16 at 19:43:06
I hated 3 because of the small level design and character endings. But like 4 ( even if its a 989 TM game) it had a good soundtrack and every car was playable in the game, however the only thing I hate about 4 is the stupid characters ( Drag Queen, The Jonesses, Microblast,etc.)

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Thumpy on 11/16/16 at 03:22:23
I bought TM3 and returned it after 2 hours.

Figured TM4 was more the same, read the reviews and did not even bother.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Malefactor on 11/17/16 at 03:54:42
Twisted Metal: 2012.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by †Adonael on 12/04/16 at 08:22:26
I prefer 3 to 4.

Three still felt like twisted metal despite the arena style combat and kid friendly atmosphere.

4 was just...odd on all fronts and if it had not promised to be twisted metal would of been a good game in its own right, but it was off, Very very off.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by BrandoTG on 04/19/19 at 03:27:01
There's people that actually prefer 3 to 4? whoah

To this day, after one level of awful physics, licensed music, awful characters, awful stories, I refused to play 3 ever again.

Yet somehow, 4 has uglier characters, more licensed music, worse stories, and I love it.
I think some of the weapons are creative, like the two types of missiles that launch other missiles, those are super cool. I also love the flammable toxic waste. Rob Zombie being a playable character is odd, but a fun idea. Pizza Boy's special is unique imo, and I love using it. I also love the boss at the end of every stage, makes the roster a little more fleshed out, even if half of the people just have the gravity hole special in some variation, which imo, is 100x cooler than everyone having axel's shockwave in 2012.
also fuck sweet tooth
Sure, quality > quantity, but when the quality sucks, more chracters means there's probably more semi-good ones. Plus, the custom character system, while primitive and limited, is really cool for it's time.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Kratoscar2008 on 04/26/19 at 07:58:54
3 is worse. The flipping kills it completely and the specials rank from overpowered (Club Kid) to pathetic (Mr. Grimm is weak as usual but this time even his special is weak too? He is a goof).
Storywise both suck as well as the characters and endings but i loved 4's create a car, some of the cars (Like Orbital, Quatro, the Super versions of TM2 cars) and the new weapons.


Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Equinox on 05/21/19 at 15:47:30
3 has the worst turning and car physics in the series. Twisted Metal 4 has better physics, level design and has the coolest weapon selection of every Twisted Metal. Literally the only downside to Twisted Metal 4 is the characters themselves and the cars.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Shalashaska on 05/17/20 at 17:00:38
Twisted 4 is worse. Sure it has better levels but the vehicles design sucks and the biggest flaw is the stupid specials. They are there just to be there. There is zero thought and strategy behind the specials with the exeption of maybe Orbital and Rob Zombie. Also most of the specials recharge very slow and deal less damage than a power missile.
Mortar and rain 1 are way worse than TM3 versions.

The only plus of TM4 is the levels(some of them).

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Infernal on 05/22/20 at 08:59:26
TM3 takes everything that TM2 created and made a bare bones version of that. With the lack of AA alongside poor physics of cars staying upside down for 5 seconds or so, makes this game unbearable. Most of the levels suck ass, especially Egypt.

At least TM4 made improvements on what TM3 failed to capitalize on to an extent, but that's not saying much about TM4.

If I could vote for both I would. However, TM3 was mine.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by †Adonael on 05/22/20 at 10:13:14
My opinion changed over the years and TM3 is my worse TM game now. Twisted metal 4 isnt far behind though in all honesty.

I'm not going to go in a super elaborate post as to why. Done it one too many times.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Coleiosis on 05/23/20 at 03:35:29
TM3 - Worst storyline (it's all just pure confusion) and vehicle physics (constantly drifting to the side or tipping upside down).
TM4 - Worst aiming, also constantly using turbo by accident.  Plus, a lot of the weapons are totally useless.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 05/23/20 at 10:33:01
4 is worse with 3 989 "tried" to stick to the script of a TM game but with 4 they completely threw out the script. just look at the characters... Drag Queen... Micro blast... and The Johnsons... do i really need to name more then u got all the game play issues...

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by TwistedChains on 05/24/20 at 12:35:30
Like Jaffe has said: 3 and 4 are good games, just bad TM games.

To me, 4 is a better game than 3; though 3 is probably a better TM game than 4.

Overall, I think 4 is better because things like better gameplay, level design, etc should override the character and car designs (because that's just cosmetic, imo). Besides, they both had bad cars and characters (and story) so why not focus on the gameplay? 3 has quite sloppy control compared to 4, and that's what ultimately makes up my mind. That said, I enjoyed both for what they were as bad as they were for having the TM brand name slapped across the front.



Side note: I remember thinking at the time that I was just going to have to settle for 989 at the helm instead of singletrac. I remember anticipating that the next TM game would likely have a roman numeral V; developmed once again by 989 and wondering how different it would be since 3 and 4 were different... enter TM: Black. :D

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Toomnyusernae on 06/02/20 at 07:48:35
TM3 story was a shallow rehash of its predecessor. It has some okay physics especially the feel of ramming in the game. Didn't like flipping on my back like a turtle for too long. Stages were a bit bland and small. Gameplay wise with what you can do with the full roster was limited. Depended on the specials for me. The multiple back shots trick was a lot of fun. Especially with Outlaw zapping people into the ceiling or sapping their life. Club kid was also fun when the whirlpool would magnify the effect.

TM4 intro was fun to watch but you could only watch it once. Seeing Calypso and Sweet Tooth fight inside a ring over a smaller ring is fun. Quite a few cars had interesting moves to work with. Calypso's draining nuke on a direct hit was neat, Sweet Tooth's was cheap and interesting, not too many others come to mind. Roster was bland and I'm glad a lot of the special cars didn't bother with having profiles. A lot of fun glitches in the game. Fun time with a gameshark.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 06/15/20 at 00:59:11
So we are all in agreement that TM 3 and 4 were bad... but why did 989 drop the ball when they help make TM 2???

WTF!? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72H7MfVnIuc

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by TwistedChains on 06/17/20 at 17:55:21

Grimgravesite13 wrote on 06/15/20 at 00:59:11:
So we are all in agreement that TM 3 and 4 were bad... but why did 989 drop the ball when they help make TM 2???

WTF!? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72H7MfVnIuc



Just as I suspected: I looked on the back of my black label TM2 game from, literally, the 1996 release year and there is no 989 on the back. I suspected it was likely on the greatest hits release, and wouldn't you know:

"Two years after its release, Twisted Metal 2 was re-released as a PlayStation Greatest Hits game, however under the developer 989 Studios instead of SingleTrac. It was also released for download in Japan and North America on the PlayStation Network in 2007." - Wikipedia

I actually remember hearing about this but had forgotten. 989 was slapped on there because Sony could no longer place singletrac on there. Not sure if they're shown on the actual greatest hits game...? But, moral of the story: 989 had nothing to do with TM2 other than taking over and nearly killing the brand.

Also, check out that like to dislike ratio on that video link you shared...

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Infernal on 06/18/20 at 22:44:46
There's people out there still brain dead...989 helped MAKE TM2??? Cmon...the TM fanbase are such loons.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 06/18/20 at 23:24:44
I know about only Singletrac making TM2 but to not credit them even on the Greatest Hits version would just be a slap in the face. Especially how bad 3 and 4 are. Surprising no one got sued over this and yes its on the Greatest Hits I checked my copy of Greatest Hits. Odd I never noticed it but I have had it since I was a kid. Now the only thing I could think of is if 989 took TM2 and became the company to distribute the Greatest Hits version thus the credit.
TwistedChains wrote on 06/17/20 at 17:55:21:
Just as I suspected: I looked on the back of my black label TM2 game from, literally, the 1996 release year and there is no 989 on the back. I suspected it was likely on the greatest hits release, and wouldn't you know:

"Two years after its release, Twisted Metal 2 was re-released as a PlayStation Greatest Hits game, however under the developer 989 Studios instead of SingleTrac. It was also released for download in Japan and North America on the PlayStation Network in 2007." - Wikipedia

I actually remember hearing about this but had forgotten. 989 was slapped on there because Sony could no longer place singletrac on there. Not sure if they're shown on the actual greatest hits game...? But, moral of the story: 989 had nothing to do with TM2 other than taking over and nearly killing the brand.

Also, check out that like to dislike ratio on that video link you shared...


Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Infernal on 06/19/20 at 22:25:10
Guess you don't know about the beef between Sony and SingleTrac.

To sum it up, SingleTrac were furious that Sony was getting the bigger cut in revenue from TM2's sales. SingleTrac decided to leave and take their engine with them as well. TM3 was supposed to use SingleTrac's engine but 989 took over and had to start from scratch essentially.

If anything, them denying SingleTrac credit on the Greatest Hits release was a case of bad blood for that time being.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 06/19/20 at 23:14:52
I herd about the bad blood but to just give 989 credit for a project they had nothing to do with seems criminal my question why no law suit by Singletrac? The next question is why after that slap in the face did Jaffe still work with Sony but I supose the check was nice...

Infernal wrote on 06/19/20 at 22:25:10:
Guess you don't know about the beef between Sony and SingleTrac.

To sum it up, SingleTrac were furious that Sony was getting the bigger cut in revenue from TM2's sales. SingleTrac decided to leave and take their engine with them as well. TM3 was supposed to use SingleTrac's engine but 989 took over and had to start from scratch essentially.

If anything, them denying SingleTrac credit on the Greatest Hits release was a case of bad blood for that time being.


Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by MoshfieldAsylum on 06/20/20 at 02:00:56

Grimgravesite13 wrote on 06/19/20 at 23:14:52:
I herd about the bad blood but to just give 989 credit for a project they had nothing to do with seems criminal my question why no law suit by Singletrac? The next question is why after that slap in the face did Jaffe still work with Sony but I supose the check was nice...


I will try to settle this confusion.
Dave Jaffe and his first partner Mike Giam were originally part of Sony Imagesoft (where they worked on Mickey Mania), and in 1995 prior to the western release of Playstation Sony Imagesoft was merged with Sony Computer Entertainment of America (SCEA) and was renamed Sony Interactive Studios America (SISA). 
SISA worked with Singletrac in designing Twisted Metal 2 but in 1998 SISA was renamed, and became 989 Studios, thus why on the greatest hits version of TM2 989 Studios is credited, even though it's a big lie.
Singletrac couldn't sue because Twisted Metal is a property of Sony. They own it. The concept was created by Sony's guys. Singletrac only owned the gameplay engine which they took with them to work on Critical Depth and Rogue Trip, games that were spinoffs of Twisted Metal, but they lost their marketing advantage by not having Sony Computer Entertainment/SCE (who later became Sony Interactive Entertainment) as a publisher unfortunately.
Luckily for me I don't have the Greatest Hits version of TM2, I have the original without the 989 logo, but it's a case of false branding, for sure, but there was nothing legally wrong with what they did.
The original version doesn't give Singletrac any credit on the front or back cover either, outside of a small text mention, so really both versions (original & GH version) are in the wrong from a moral (but not legal) standpoint.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by †Adonael on 06/20/20 at 14:14:26

Grimgravesite13 wrote on 06/19/20 at 23:14:52:
I herd about the bad blood but to just give 989 credit for a project they had nothing to do with seems criminal my question why no law suit by Singletrac? The next question is why after that slap in the face did Jaffe still work with Sony but I supose the check was nice...


Bad blood doesnt even explain it. SingleTrac tried holding their source code hostage after being bought by GT, Demanding sony to hire them to make a Twisted metal 3, which in retaliation sony said no.

This lead to singletrac making Rouge trip and 989 pushing out TM3 in a few months.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 06/20/20 at 16:03:12
People have been sued for less in USA even if they didn't own it. The real odd thing is out of all the interviews I've watched with Jaffe and Singletrac team they breeze over this. Jaffe just goes "yea 989 has it now" but he was busy doing other projects at the time. Doesn't even mention about 989 getting credit for his brain child.

History - http://temp.tmalliance.com/?num=1552669240


MoshfieldAsylum wrote on 06/20/20 at 02:00:56:
I will try to settle this confusion.
Dave Jaffe and his first partner Mike Giam were originally part of Sony Imagesoft (where they worked on Mickey Mania), and in 1995 prior to the western release of Playstation Sony Imagesoft was merged with Sony Computer Entertainment of America (SCEA) and was renamed Sony Interactive Studios America (SISA). 
SISA worked with Singletrac in designing Twisted Metal 2 but in 1998 SISA was renamed, and became 989 Studios, thus why on the greatest hits version of TM2 989 Studios is credited, even though it's a big lie.
Singletrac couldn't sue because Twisted Metal is a property of Sony. They own it. The concept was created by Sony's guys. Singletrac only owned the gameplay engine which they took with them to work on Critical Depth and Rogue Trip, games that were spinoffs of Twisted Metal, but they lost their marketing advantage by not having Sony Computer Entertainment/SCE (who later became Sony Interactive Entertainment) as a publisher unfortunately.
Luckily for me I don't have the Greatest Hits version of TM2, I have the original without the 989 logo, but it's a case of false branding, for sure, but there was nothing legally wrong with what they did.
The original version doesn't give Singletrac any credit on the front or back cover either, outside of a small text mention, so really both versions (original & GH version) are in the wrong from a moral (but not legal) standpoint.


Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Infernal on 06/20/20 at 20:31:35
They may have never noticed the changes, or cared. After all, the Twisted Metal franchise is owned by Sony and has always been owned by them.

Never knew that SingleTrac were shown almost no credit in the game's original release on the box, quite messed up.

Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by Grimgravesite13 on 06/21/20 at 00:24:27
Thats my point though. They launched one of the biggest Playstation franchises without credit and getting kicked when down. Really messed up.


Infernal wrote on 06/20/20 at 20:31:35:
They may have never noticed the changes, or cared. After all, the Twisted Metal franchise is owned by Sony and has always been owned by them.

Never knew that SingleTrac were shown almost no credit in the game's original release on the box, quite messed up.


Title: Re: whats worse? tm 3 or 4
Post by -Kilrahi- on 07/01/20 at 01:51:27

Grimgravesite13 wrote on 06/21/20 at 00:24:27:
Thats my point though. They launched one of the biggest Playstation franchises without credit and getting kicked when down. Really messed up.


Honestly if I had to choose a side Singletrac would be the dickish one.

Nobody really cares about it though, even years later in interviews, because the whole dispute was just about money, and they all did okay in the end.

People make fun of the, "It's not personal, it's business" line but the truth is most of the time in the business world it really is NOT personal. It's all about money.

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