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General Category >> Totally Twisted >> State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
http://temp.tmalliance.com/?num=1363393476

Message started by Mortimer on 03/16/13 at 01:56:35

Title: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/16/13 at 01:56:35
Greetings my fellow Twisters,

I'd just like to apologise for the extremely long delay in updates about the development of TMA 2.0. I won't be making excuses, but I will explain myself, and I hope you hear me out and understand I meant nothing but the best for TMA, always.

First off, there is nothing wrong with wanting to know or being curious about the whereabouts of TMA 2.0, in fact I appreciate the interest. Everyone here was more than welcome to hit me up on AIM or in email and ask, but no one here is entitled or privy to this info, nor entitled to TMA 2.0. I don’t owe anybody TMA 2.0, in the formal sense, because TMA is 'purely' a hobby for me. I just thought I should make that clear. I wrongly assumed people realised this and wouldn't trash me behind my back because it isn't finished yet, and would be grateful for TMA as it is now even if I never finished 2.0 (but still keeping faith I would finish it). But don't get me wrong, I'm still extremely passionate about Twisted Metal (more so playing it), always have loved working on TMA and playing TM together (the latter which takes away time from the former)... so it caught me off-guard to find out there was this expectation that I owed everyone 2.0, and that it was late, and that people were acting 'entitled' to it, because I said it was coming a long time ago and it never came (some say I even 'promised' it). Even more perplexing is that 2.0's absense has become some kind of running joke; especially odd since most of TMA's veterans that care most about 2.0 don't even like the new Twisted Metal. For me the point of TMA 2.0 was to be a cool place to talk about the new Twisted Metal, setup games, clans, etc, that was my goal; which is now redundant, so I was no longer rushing to finish 2.0 anymore. See my predicament? But that's just me, you guys live here not me.

Even more shocking was the way TMA turned on ESP/David Jaffe, just because most people here didn't like the new Twisted Metal. It might be surprising, but finishing 2.0 was not supposed to facilitate being disrespectful jackasses to ESP on Totally Twisted, or myself on Brawl on the Wall. This is a Twisted Metal fansite, first and foremost. We're supposed to be fans, and respect for the creators of REAL Twisted Metal, and TMA, should be paramount. They are not 989 Studios; comparing TMX to TM3/4 is just unacceptable and these people clearly are taking that statement too lightly, and never understood that era. For this behaviour we may never be in any special thanks ever again; which is gutting. A lot of people should have been suspended or even banned, but due to their friendships with certain admins and cliques, and the general lawlessness around here, nothing happened. I feel TMA (even in this temporary state) has strayed too far away from our roots. A lot of what has been said around here over the last year might be considered 'free speech', but at TMA, I think it's pure blasphemy. This community needs to return to having the upmost respect for the developers/designers of TM's we love (Dave/ESP/Incog), for TMA, and ourselves. It's one thing to be disappointed in the new TM and express your issues, but it's quite another to treat Dave/ESP with such disdain and fallen grace, that he no longer thinks of us in the same positive light he once did anymore. The minority of people around here that liked the new TM were made to feel like outcasts, because we didn't agree with the veterans (a lot of new fans even driven away because this place was unwelcoming to them). TMA's long held reputation went down the drain in the process, and for what? Apologies all around wouldn't hurt.

If anything, I'm extremely sorry on a personal level for letting down David Jaffe, for not finishing 2.0 in time for TMPS3's launch... it just wasn't ready (same as TMPS3 wasn't ready but Sony has shareholders to please; game had to be released; TMA 2.0 I can hold off until it's ready). To have the MAN we once worshipped as a God, suddenly lose that love he had for TMA, and the respect and worship we gave him, really hurt, and I felt partly responsible (even though everyone here not liking his new game was not something I could control). He had even offered to pay a years hosting when I finish 2.0; now I know that is definitely not coming. How things turned out was the furthest from my expectations. I envisioned all of us playing the new Twisted Metal together for years to come, just like we did with TM2pc, and some of you have with TMBO (and still do to this day), and posting about it on 2.0. The reality is there is no 2.0 yet, and it's just me & Mosh playing on TMPS3 (and sometimes AfroDizziac aka Junior). I would never have believed that before the game came out that a year later it's just us few guys representing TMA. Thankfully I'm still having a lot of fun with the game and posting games on the Youtube channel; I've played lots of competitive adrenaline pumping games just this year, but that may not last forever if I start to feel even more lonely on TMX (in the sense no one else from TMA is playing with me; it's depressing). I may not have finished 2.0 yet, but for now I still fully support Twisted Metal by playing the game and running the Youtube channel in tandem. I hoped people would at least commend that.

I understand the disappointment in the 2.0 delays, but what I wasn't expecting was all that talk behind my back and disrespect, even from people on staff, and even people I thought were friends and had played TM with over the years; a lot of people did not have my back. It was disheartening and discouraging; the fact I was still working on TMA 2.0, and having all this dissent in the place I created, from people who I thought respected all I had done for TM the last 13+ years, and who obviously have no idea how much time I have put into 2.0. Even though I could have stemmed that by giving updates, I don't believe I deserved the treatment I got for not doing so; and if anything it was interesting to see people show their true colors. Forgive me for not posting updates, but I’m just not the type of person who needs to get feedback along the way; I just wanted to WOW everybody when it was finished. So my priority was to just finish 2.0 and then post on it; that's why I never posted here for the longest time (I didn't allow myself to post until I finished 2.0... obviously I broke that rule; sue me!). Besides, what exactly is wrong with Temp TMA anyway? If Temp TMA was bad I'd understand, but it gives you all the ability to talk TM, just like old TMA, or 2.0 would.

With that all said and done, you're probably still wondering, "So where is TMA 2.0? Cut to the chase already!". Simple answer; because it's part of a much bigger project that is not finished yet. It was never solely about TMA 2.0, TMA would just have benefitted from said project I am working on (and that's why TMA is still just a 'hobby'). Essentially it's a 'concept' (similar to myspace at the time, and now more so facebook); lets just call it Project X to keep it easy from here on out. As -ScolD- kindly gloated it was 'revolutionary' at the time when he last saw it back in 2005 (or whenever that was), but that was before facebook arrived and took on a lot of those features. But I didn't give up, I just kept improving Project X to this day. So that is what caused the delay. TMA 2.0 would never come out until I finish Project X; until I was happy with it. I didn't intend for it to take this long, but as I kept improving it and adding more features, it just become a behemoth and thus TMA 2.0 got delayed further and further in the process. I hope to have it finished this year (but I'm not giving any ETA's), which would mean TMA 2.0 would come out not long after. I really hoped for TMA 2.0 to showcase the power and features of Project X. It might even take longer, so be prepared for that (it's not actually called Project X btw).

So why did I give those ETA's for when TMA would be back years ago? Apparently to some people I was lying, because 'estimating' the arrival of something and being wrong is lying. I won't be giving ETA's anymore, but I will explain why I did that. Those ETA's were not for 2.0 at all; initially I planned on just putting the old TMA back up, but I just couldn't stomach putting up that shit again. The code is bloated, the performance is poor, it's just a mess. I made the old TMA back in 2000/2001, and here I was in 2008 (or later I forget) and I'd been working on Project X for many years already, it was superior; I was ashamed to put that old crap back up based on what I was working on. So I decided to spend a month and clean up old TMA, fix some lingering bugs I never got around to fixing, and optimize some specific things that took the most server time; to improve performance of the old site. The old site now ran 10x faster, but it's still visually the same ugly site. I knew there were areas I could still optimize further, to make the site better for everyone. I converted most of the forum display code to javascript, cutting down the server's job even more. Before I knew it I had spent 3 months making the old site run lightning fast and clean, but I still had the same problem; it still looked like the same old ugly TMA. Compared to 2.0 it was just ugly. It just suddenly seemed like a waste of time, and Temp TMA seemed that it would do the job for now until I finish 2.0. So I canned the old TMA reboot, and kept working on 2.0 with the plan to just get it done before TMPS3 was launched. This is why the ETA's kept changing, then just went away.

I regret not giving small updates, but I didn't want to disappoint people and instead just chose to focus on finishing 2.0 (which should more than make up for my 'silence'). Sadly I got carried away with Project X and I was not able to finish it in time for TMPS3's launch. I also had a TMA 1.5 in the works in hopes of getting that done in time for TMPS3's launch (it was a hybrid of 2.0 and 1.0); because I knew I couldn't finish Project X in time, so I was balancing multiple projects, but that didn't happen either. So those features I added to 1.5 will crossover to 2.0 (consider 1.5 a lite version of Project X). I tried hard to get it finished in time, but it just didn't happen. I felt shit for letting down Dave, and I felt shit for letting down my true TMA friends and supporters; but it just didn't seem so bad with the way things turned out in the end (most of TMA not even liking the new TM; Dave leaving ESP; poor support from Sony; etc). Regardless, a lot of people are still taking this 'temporary' site for granted, and that does rub me the wrong way. I don't believe I deserved any of the backlash I received for a 'hobby'; Project X is the most important thing to me and it's still my highest priority, but I still love TMA and want it to be the best it can be. For those that still don't take this place for granted and respect all I've done, thank you... you just haven't been very vocal to notice.

So, what will TMA 2.0 be like when it does finally arrive? It'll bring back that old TMA feeling, I hope...

TMA 2.0 Features:
- There are site skins for every Twisted Metal (made by SolTakr)
- Edit Config 2.0 will debut, allowing you to keep unlimited configs and signatures for posting with; it's crazy
- Boards for every TM (including fully-featured search & sort engine); full bbcode support including custom tags just for TMA e.g. captioning images
- Quizzes for every TM (including global rankings)
- Everything will be real-time including chat rooms
- All the old TMA posts will return along with the temp TMA posts, all sorted into categories (multi-levels e.g. General Discussion -> Consoles -> PS3 -> Games)
- You can add users (and topics) to your watchlist and follow everything they do
- You can ignore users (and topics) so you never see anything from them on the site
- Slick sections dedicated to each TM with info and pictures/videos of all the cars/drivers/levels
- Weekly Awards will be back including a database that keeps a history of all the awards since the beginning of TMA (part of the reason TMA was special)
- Zero Spam

I also plan on a clan ladder system (and I plan on databasing all the youtube games I have posted so you can search for games with you in it); and so many other things I can't even think of right now. I'm using a fully-featured backend database, and javascript to render all displays, and AJAX to keep everything real-time where possible; all inside an 'optional' interface that is like another browser (I guess that was the 'revolutionary' part).

Now for the bad news; there will be some major changes with how people will be allowed to act & behave around here. We'll be enforcing a strict "no tolerance" policy for brawling/fighting on every board, resulting in immediate suspension for at least 7 days (if you ignore the PM warnings). These new rules will be enforced in 7 days, giving everyone time to read this post and not claim ignorance. Disrespect for ESP and any TM's besides TM3/4 will be against the rules and up for suspension. Brawl on the Wall will cease to exist; on 2.0 it will be moving to an archive. All the non-brawling topics will be moved to a general discussion board called Downtime; brawling will be retired (definition: slander/personal attacks/mob mentality). I can't do any of this on Temp TMA, so instead we'll just be renaming the board to General Discussion for now. On 2.0 there will once again be boards for every TM, so you can talk about each one separately and without insulting or fighting with other TM fans from other boards. TT will be and is for clean and respectful discussion of all TM's only, and future TM's. I want TMA to be a more user friendly and welcoming place to new users; even if they only ask stupid questions (we were all stupid once). Some of you may consider a lot of these changes as 'mainstreaming', and I agree (but not so far we'd ever support TM3/4). Everyone can keep to their respective boards on 2.0 and all will be happy; no need to beat endless dead horses, no more friction. Love the TM's you love!

In other news a Ghost Mod was instated to help deal with all the spam that the other mods have been slacking on (or taking a well-deserved break from). I'd just like to say I very much appreciate all the hard work our active admins Archminion/Magnum/Mosh have done with keeping spam at bay and welcoming new users. When I think of perfect admins, it's you guys. And a big thank you goes out to Wolfenhex for this server; without that there would be nothing. Donations have always been pertinent, but I understand the fact they dried up due to my lack of updating the community about the development of 2.0; that totally falls on me. That said, I can't guarantee Temp TMA will even remain online up until I finish 2.0.

So there you have it. I predict lots of boos, hisses, and maybe some cheers. Hopefully no backlash. I hope to post screenshots between now and launch (maybe even a youtube video; dunno yet). Just remember, 2.0 doesn't just make itself (it's not quite 'that' revolutionary). NightShade will be replying to this topic with another option to the situation.

Your webmaster,
Mort.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by NightShade on 03/16/13 at 01:58:28
Mort and I talked about this for a while and we hope these measures we came up with can turn things around, but we are not blind to the reality of the situation.

In the past, I have argued vigorously against what I am about to talk about here, and I never thought it would come to this, but I want you to ask yourself something. Are you here because you enjoy having discussions with the community? Or are you here out of habit or loyalty?

What do you get out of TMA? Whoever you are, weigh in - a mod, a regular, a sporadic poster, a lurker, whatever. Do you need TMA to discuss gaming and other various subjects, and connect with people you don't talk to outside of the site? Do you need it to discuss and organize TM games? Do you need it to read and enjoy the posts of your favorite personalities? Do you need it because you actually enjoy these vicious arguments?

We've all forged what I hope are lifelong friendships here (I've personally been pretty shitty about maintaining them as of late, but that's neither here nor there), but in recent years, what used to be friendships have devolved into rivalries or hatred and the community has splintered.  The atmosphere has become so toxic, it's hard to have fun here anymore and a lot of people have already left. We used to be a united community, but this is no longer the case. We are not the same group of people we were a decade ago. I don't mean that in the sense that we've lost something, but we've changed.

Is it worth continuing to try to keep the community united, or is there anything that is even holding us together anymore? Would you rather we just let the community split naturally, with those that enjoy each others company communicating on Xbox Live, PSN, AIM, email, texting, Phone, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc. in order to avoid having every discussion devolve into hate fueled diatribes with sworn enemies?

I don't want to do this, I never have. TMA has been an important part of my life for over a decade. I'm not even advocating this. But it was something I wanted to get out in the open for us to talk about.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Hellbent on 03/16/13 at 02:12:59
With these new rules all my grievances with other posters are resolved. I'll no longer antagonize anyone here. With these rules in place not only can't i participate in such behavior but the people who i dislike will no longer be capable of spreading their venom either.

I liked brawling and being able to just say what i want. But i can see why that isn't going to work very well. Especially with so few people left posting.

I'm perfectly happy with my art, videos, and totally twisted. As long as the rules are upheld i have no problems and i completely agree with them. So you have my word i won't cause anything to disrupt the peace. If something is out of hand i'll just send GhostMod or one of you guys a message with my grievance.

Thanks for all the hard work.





I present the official peace song of TMA to seal my cooperation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Vaz9jW054

Title: Thank you Mortimer
Post by Archminion on 03/16/13 at 03:13:50
Personally I have no problem with using the temp site as it is.

If and when TMA 2.0 comes that's fantastic but I'm more than happy to stick around on this site (especially now you've made some much needed rule changes).

I am ecstatic you have brought in the new 'ZT' rules.

This NEEDED to happen.

As a junior Admin I've always felt hesitant to ban or even warn long time posters who (in the past at least) have been productive and enjoyable members of the site,

For an analogy it's like the old guy who sits in the corner of the pub and has done so for years but he's a gossip and only ever buys one pint.
The landlord and regulars tolerate him because he's been there so long but in reality he's an arseole and a trouble maker and should have been kicked out a long time ago.

(just as any worthless rowdy kid who they'd never seen before would be within a minute of getting in the door).

I personally no longer feel the pressure to not kick anyone insulting ESP or the new game now.

Believe it or not but this matter nearly had me packing my bags and leaving the place just a few weeks ago...

I could understand some anger about the game's issues (I made that vocal myself near the beginning) but it is BETTER now and although this may have come to late to be really relevant anymore the game is PLAYABLE for those who just want to sit down and have a few laughs.

I mean that was the intention of the whole series I believe??

It also irritated me how it was pretty much the same argument running on a loop like Groundhog Day.

If certain people just fancied a brawl here on TT they knew exactly how to start one up...

Anyway this is a breath of fresh air Mort and I also appreciate the nice shout out for myself.

I can promise I will be upholding these new rules to the letter as in my opinion this is how it should be.

I don't want to see potentially great new posters instantly turned off from the site (the game?) because a tiny minority can't just behave or leave if they do not like the way things are.

I'll continue to keep an eye on spam and I am actively checking out the Brawl forum for spam as well now since I know Night, Mags and the other admins/mods have their handfuls.


I think there is only one way to end this post don't you think?


KEEP TWISTED

(forever)

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mosh on 03/16/13 at 04:16:13
the TMA 2.0 features bring back that old TMA feeling. I agree the place needs less trolling/drama, and better TM discussions, but temp TMA isn't all that bad. Who would know about tm1pc & tm2pc, the tm2 comic book, how to play TMBO using xlink kai, etc. if temp TMA wasn't around? There are also pretty creative fanfics and fanart on the site. We all tend to focus on the bad over the good here because there's a lot of bad (including the annoying spam). Argumentative threads get the most replies, and it makes the place look like a degenerate social cub rather than the best Twisted Metal fansite as it ought to be known as. Removing 'Brawl' from the site seems the best solution for that. Anyway, I have no problem with the new guidelines. Hopefully none of the TM vets decide to leave because of the new rules.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/16/13 at 04:18:55
This thread could have and should have been made long ago and it would have prevented a lot of the fallout we've all seen go down over the last few years. All those people who voiced disdain for the direction of TMA, myself at the forefront, made those cries out of sheer desperation for a place that we all once held near and dear to our hearts and we felt like we were not being heard so much like a needy child begging for attention we made a scene so to speak.

There was a time when we first moved to temp TMA when there were less than 20 of us keeping the site alive, always hoping that 2.0 was right around the corner, building up momentum because Mort had never failed us before and we trusted him to deliver. Then, after three years here and not a single post, reply, or word, we all assumed the worst. Sorry, but in my opinion, as a creator/webmaster of a such a popular niche fan site as TMA, that just isn't how I would go about it. And to say that you've always been available on AIM or wherever else isn't completely true. I know myself and several others have tried to contact you numerous times throughout the last three or four years but because we aren't in your inner circle we don't matter or get a response.

Whether or not you cared about the site or the community outside of just playing and discussing Twisted Metal, the reality is that those of us who continued to log in everyday, day after day, when you did not, were coming here for something more than just Twisted Metal even though that is what brought us all here in the first place. The unique inviting yet hilariously harsh atmosphere combined with an unbreakable sense of loyalty, comradery, community, good old fashioned rivalry, and friendships forged throughout what most of us considered some of the best times of our lives (depending on when you joined and what TM you associated your time at TMA with) are what you fail to see as the real foundation of TMA beyond it being simply a Twisted Metal fan site.

Now, I'm not telling you (Mort, Night) or anyone else how to run this website, but when there isn't clear leadership and feedback, people just start to assume you don't care and take matters into their own hands. No one ever, at least to my knowledge, felt we deserved TMA 2.0. We just wanted to know what was up with it and to know that you still cared not just about building a flashy new website but about us as a community. That's it. It was always just that simple. Instead, we got nothing but complete silence. Most of us were fine with temp TMA as it served the same purpose, but we were expecting heaven and pure nirvana given how amazing the old TMA was only it never came and we just wanted to know why. We kept asking mama Nightshade why daddy Mort left and wasn't coming back but sweet ol' Nights just had no answer.

Most of us felt the idea and purpose of TMA had also been abandoned long ago, especially by those who helped built it and maintain it and those of us that had been around for ages did the best we could to try and keep the spirit alive by posting and replying and keeping things flowing with minimal instruction, direction, or clear purpose. Sadly, almost none of it was handled well and we've all, from top to bottom, had a hand in the downward spiral TMA has become. Everyone is to blame. Every single Admin, Moderator, and veteran all the way down to the spam bots.

Unfortunately all this is too little to late for some of us. This site has been left to its own devices for far too long and it has eaten itself from the inside out. TMA is the twin towers or hurricane Katrina and you two are the George Bush and Dick Cheney who chose not to act to prevent the catastrophe before or after the fact until it was too late.

I'm not saying I myself or tons of others won't check in or post from time to time, but I've steadily watched good people leave year after year until I myself don't even want to be apart of this place any more and that breaks my heart more than anything because TMA has been a constant in my life for over a decade. However, some of us have decided to move on.

I also feel like since were clearing the air that I need to say what I, and many others, believe has been the worst thing about TMA recently and for a very, very long time outside of the Jaffe/ESP hate and that is Hellbent. I won't sit here and act like I'm not guilty of doing some damaging things myself, especially during the brief time I was a Moderator, but no one has caused more unwanted grief and unnecessary bullshit on the back-end of this site than him and its a shame that his atrocious behavior was tolerated this long and at all.

Just thought I'd clear all that up and speak my mind since maybe powers that be might actually read it and care what I have to say for once. If not, that's fine to because there are other places that offer what TMA used to. 

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 03/16/13 at 10:24:35
I will say that I appriciate the praise and mention. I know I'm not the best guy for Admin stuff because I'm only on here once a day in mornings. I will give serious props to Archminon for caretaking TT, and DSB for being a certified Jesus in trying to stem the tide of spam.

I also want Mort and Nightshade to know I never expected or felt I was entitled to 2.0 or whatever. The temp site was fine by me. The only thing I have to say is that when I was ever asked about it, of course I wouldn't know. That's not you guys fault because quite frankly, everyone knows I don't use AIM, and the only ways of communication for me is here or E-mail for those that know it. I'm not a reachable dude. If you get 2.0 up and running and are willing to have me there, I'll join.  

I'll never claim I'm the best at doing this sort of thing because quite honestly, I am a terrible manager. I can hardly manage my own real life shit. So yea...I'm a pussy because I won't nuke people I consider friends. I'm honestly window dressing really. So TMA falling into disrepair is also on me too because I freaking didn't have a clue/guts to really make hard choices. Arch discribed it perfectly.  

I obviously don't come to TMA to talk/schedule TMX games. I say it's for the comeradierie but, that's not around much anymore. It is more out of habit now that I come here, and also out of loyalty because I'm logging in to just make sure the boards are deleted of spam posts.

I don't want to see anyone leaving TMA but, I feel that if there is no reason for them to stay in there minds, I belive they should be allowed to leave if they choose, or stay so long as they're not disruptive. I have no problems with the rules Mort or Night lay down as this is their site to run, and they should have sway over what goes and what doesn't. I will always back that.

I just feel that at anytime if you guys feel that I'm not good enough for this position as an Admin, all you have to do is tell me, and I'm good with that. I can survive being a "regular" poster. Like I said before, I can't play referee. I'm not good with that. The straitfoward shit is stuff I can handle.

So.....anyone want Applejuice?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by lemmywinks on 03/16/13 at 11:23:41
Disclaimer:  I was an early member of this site back when TMBO was in its prime, but left and did not post for years, due to a personal tragedy.  I missed alot of what happened on this site for about 8-9 years.

I also did not care for the new TM game.

With that being said, I agree with the comment that we have all changed.  I was 20-21 years old, with a part time job when I first joined this site.  Now I am 31, with a full time job, fiance and all the other shit that comes with being 31.  All of us are 10 years older, but only some of us are more mature.  I also do not have the time for games that I used to, so I am much more selective about what I play.

I would enjoy the site and post much more, if it were not for the constant negativity and "trolling".  (btw, call me an old fucker, but I HATE that trendy term, it is called being an idiot or an asshole, not a "troll".)  You can scan down the list of post topics and see the last person to reply to each one.  Hellbent.  Even though he has never personally done anything to me, it is painfully clear the large majority of his posts are negative and unneeded.  It is like he posts just for the sake of posting, with nothing to contribute.  With so few posters left, constantly seeing his negative or unneeded replies to each and every post on here really stands out.

I am absolutely thrilled that a new "zero tolerance" rule we be in effect, and that Brawl on the Wall is no more.

As far as how the site looks, as long as it functions, and the community is good, it does not matter to me.  I prefer substance over style any day, and the current set up works fine.  I was not aware there was "drama" over when the new site would be up.

I think the problem with the site is us.  We are not the same people.  We don't like the same things we did ten years ago.  I would like to see this site evolve into a more mature, less hateful place.  We all need to act our age.  We are not in high school or college any more.  I bet most of us are 30 or approaching 30, some may be older.

Lets start acting like it when we address each other.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by SynthR on 03/16/13 at 11:27:38
I feel there's a bit of a disconnect here. TMA isn't a site anymore. It's a community of players with real relationships. We all appreciate what Mort, Nightshade and anyone who has had power/influence over the site in the past has done, but this is a monster that's out of your control. Nobody has been policing the site and laying down the law, which is why it's become what it is. None of you get to say what TMA is or should be simply because you're the creator or you've been paying the bills. It may sound disrespectful, it's not meant to be, but that's my opinion. We've all had a hand in building this community. The current condition of Temp TMA is proof you have little sway. A responsible parent doesn't let their kids run wild, only to scold them later.

The rules I just read above, if they were enforced in the future, are too late to implement with such an aged community. You're going to have to start over with new members. Allowing the vets back in is asking for trouble because we're a "clique", as you say. Bad blood will still exist and most of us don't want to be censored - we're adults here.

Our relationships continue to exist outside of TMA because we've moved on from Twisted Metal. TM brought us together, but it's not what sustained us. We've been gaming together for years and that's something we can all get behind. I respect almost all the veterans here, but those relationships came from interaction outside of this site.

I don't feel bad for playing my part in this continuing drama. I don't feel in the wrong at all and I'm an overly just individual to boot. It is what it is. We all have opinions and emotions.

Thanks for taking the time to address the current state of things, but I feel it's much to late and something I won't be a part of. Best of luck with Project X. Lord knows you deserve the pay off for all the hard work you've put into it.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by SynthR on 03/16/13 at 12:17:26
One more thought: Trying to turn TMA into a PG, family friendly site to appease outside sources (Ex. Jaffe) is going to be an uphill battle. Like I said, you will need to purge the community (which, to your favour, has actually happened on it's own) and start from square one. Best of luck.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Truth on 03/16/13 at 13:36:21

Mortimer wrote on 03/16/13 at 01:56:35:

Even more shocking was the way TMA turned on ESP/David Jaffe, just because most people here didn't like the new Twisted Metal.


While its no secret most didn't like the new Twisted metal. It had more to do with constant network errors/crashes at launch. Even with most not liking it, people would of at least spent a lot more time with it and less time bitching if online worked.

If it was true TMA turned on dave jaffe/esp  because they did not like it. Then everyone would of turned on them back when TMHO came out. Especially when you spent a lot more money just to play TMHO. There was no uproar over it though because it worked. Not to mention people in the "TMBO crowd" played it a good amount including kilrahi who played it at least a year. Yea, the guy that you believe is leading the TMBO2 crusade.

I don't think TMA truly turned on dave jaffe/ ESP. Most still respect them as game devs and would have faith in them if they did another Twisted Metal. You can't blame people for being upset at the time. After TMHO not being what most hoped it would be and waiting so long for true console TM. It was heart breaking to see gameplay elements that made Twisted Metal so fucking awesome gone but to top that off the online connection error/crash mess that completely killed the game. It was sad to realize this is how Twisted Metal is going to go out without ever having a real shot at online play.

Just to give a great example of fans turning on someone, look at Diablo 3 that released a few months later. While it didn't have the big connection/crash problem TMX did, It did remove the gameplay elements that made Diablo 2 so good. Almost all fans of the Diablo series were heart broken and they really showed an example of turning on someone. Their own Blizzard forums were filled with nothing but the most hateful shit you can think of. People wanted Jay Wilson(d3 game director) dead and still do to this day. That is a real example of turning on someone, we were no where even close to that. In fact I only remember a few people saying really disrespectful stuff towards dave jaffe/esp and they weren't even long time TMAers.

The worst part and most damaging was having Hellbent and P7 completely turn TT into a warzone with their nonsense. Its great that they love the game but there was no need to not respect people's opinions and act like they were noobs that don't know what they are talking about. That shit including anything really disrespectful towards dave jaffe/esp should of been put to a stop a year ago when it really mattered.

As for TMA 2.0, I don't know anyone that thinks you owe us 2.0.  You can't really blame people that were really looking forward to 2.0 for losing hope in 2.0 coming. After all Its been a very long time since it was rumored you started working on it. Obviously as year after year goes by, people are going to start to think it doesn't exist.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Obliverate on 03/16/13 at 14:17:10
It was probably, oh, five years ago that I found myself here. Interestingly enough, I came here because of a link in the External Links of the Twisted Metal 2 Wikipedia page. That link is no longer there, but what brought me was Twisted Metal. I goddamn loved the series and hated 3 and 4, and imagine my luck when I found a community of people that felt the same.

But I didn't stay for the Twisted Metal, I stayed for, well, the community. Some of the greatest experiences I've had were on Brawl.  I stayed for Brawl. And well, if Brawl is out then I am as well.

I know I won't be alone, but Brawl is seriously what has kept this site alive. TMX gave it a jolt of energy but that dissipated quickly. I personally don't see this site surviving as the PG TM-only site you would like it to be, because that's not what the site is. TM is too much of a niche series, too small and too weak to sustain a level of activity that is even close to being called stable. The goddamn Gamefaqs board gets more action than TT, and the only reason that thing is alive is because they've essentially created their own TMA over there. Nobody on Gamefaqs actually checks that part of the site besides that little community, so they are surviving. There isn't some dated leadership coming in and trying to change the site into what they want.

If you do that then you are pulling the plug on TMA. I'd hate to see such a site go, but it's essentially dead now and will be DOA whenever this '2.0' drops. TMA 2.0 is Duke Nukem Forever and it will only receive a small kickstart of energy from the fact that it has TMA and 2.0 in the title. The problem is that it WON'T be TMA. It will be a heavily-moderated rated-PG be-nice-only graveyard.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/16/13 at 15:34:02
'PG'

Heavily moderated'

Because thats exactly what was said.

You guys need to really take some reading lessons.
The negativity on the forum has come from a small group of people regarding an almost constantly repeated topic.

It is not interesting any more.

It was when it was an actual problem for the people who play but its old news now.

So constant criticism of certain games. People or even devs is not adding anything interesting to TMA.

If any of you guys can't get that then sadly i have to say you won't be missed by me at least.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Obliverate on 03/16/13 at 15:46:51
I was speaking about BOTW. Or the lack thereof.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by SynthR on 03/16/13 at 15:58:38

Archminion wrote on 03/16/13 at 15:34:02:
'PG'

Heavily moderated'

Because thats exactly what was said.


This is exactly what's being said. 95 percent of the vets (who are probably 95 percent of the activity at this site) posted on Brawl on a daily basis and they got along. We talked about anything and everything. BOTW existed for that sole purpose. It didn't have to be about Twisted Metal, wasn't supposed to. Yet, when we have differing opinions about TM, developers, what have you, they become marked for death for speaking. Tough. That's life. Now all that is being canned? Sounds PG to me.

This calm water paradise that's being dreamt up isn't going to happen, certainly not for the reasons that are being stated. We won't be missed? Nobody wants to be here, so ditto.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/16/13 at 16:26:33
Well i guess we have to agree to disagree?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/16/13 at 16:28:18

Archminion wrote on 03/16/13 at 15:34:02:
'PG'

Heavily moderated'

Because thats exactly what was said.

You guys need to really take some reading lessons.
The negativity on the forum has come from a small group of people regarding an almost constantly repeated topic.

It is not interesting any more.

It was when it was an actual problem for the people who play but its old news now.

So constant criticism of certain games. People or even devs is not adding anything interesting to TMA.

If any of you guys can't get that then sadly i have to say you won't be missed by me at least.


What you and a lot of other people who just come to Totally Twisted or to TMA to discuss Twisted Metal in general don't understand is that there are actually two cultures that exist at TMA. The TT crowd and the Brawl crowd. Sometimes people are members of both groups but most tend to lean more to one or the other. But the Brawl culture is something that most new comers aren't even aware of and have no clue how it works. Brawl on the Wall was the backbone of this community. WE are the ones who kept this community alive in between Twisted Metal games. WE are the ones who have been coming here for 5-10 years. WE are the ones who care more about TMA as something other than just a TM fan site. The Brawl crowd were the first ones at the temp site and we were keeping the spirit alive while Totally Twisted was dead. TMA will dwindle to nothing without that aspect of the site once you're all finally done playing the new TM and there is nothing new Twisted related on the horizon.

I don't disagree at all with your point about the people who continuously trash talk the new TM being old and tiresome. Its unfortunate that some of the Brawl crowd/veterans and people I consider part of my "clique" are part of this problem. I myself didn't really like the new TM either, but I don't feel the need to ruin Totally Twisted because of it. I played the game, didn't like it, and moved on and I wish others would have done the same thing so the people who do enjoy it could talk about it in peace.

I also agree that TT should be heavily moderated and kept drama free. And that is also why Brawl on the Wall existed in the first place; it was a place for people who had a disagreement to take their beef or "brawls".

However, Brawl should not be so heavily moderated. Its a place to cut loose, bash and brawl for fun or sport, throw out insults and give out belts, talk about anything under the sun, and to schedule, discuss and play other games that other members of the community are interested in. Its not meant to be censored and neither is TMA really. This has always been a place of free speech for adults. That is the way its always been....for over 10 years.

Mort's post is basically just a giant "fuck you" to that community or side of the site and basically just confirms what we all knew a long time ago. And that's a shame considering how much time, energy, and even money some of us have contributed to TMA over the years. But that was our choice, and none of us regret it.

You aren't a part of the Brawl crowd Archminion, so most of the subjects bouncing around in this thread are going right over your head. That's not a diss on you at all. Just an observation.

Title: Well with that. Im out! GGs all.
Post by RoaDiE on 03/16/13 at 16:50:51

Mortimer wrote on 03/16/13 at 01:56:35:

Even more shocking was the way TMA turned on ESP/David Jaffe, just because most people here didn't like the new Twisted Metal. It might be surprising, but finishing 2.0 was not supposed to facilitate being disrespectful jackasses to ESP on Totally Twisted, or myself on Brawl on the Wall. This is a Twisted Metal fansite, first and foremost. We're supposed to be fans, and respect for the creators of REAL Twisted Metal, and TMA, should be paramount. They are not 989 Studios; comparing TMX to TM3/4 is just unacceptable and these people clearly are taking that statement too lightly, and never understood that era. For this behaviour we may never be in any special thanks ever again; which is gutting. A lot of people should have been suspended or even banned, but due to their friendships with certain admins and cliques, and the general lawlessness around here, nothing happened. I feel TMA (even in this temporary state) has strayed too far away from our roots. A lot of what has been said around here over the last year might be considered 'free speech', but at TMA, I think it's pure blasphemy. This community needs to return to having the upmost respect for the developers/designers of TM's we love (Dave/ESP/Incog), for TMA, and ourselves. It's one thing to be disappointed in the new TM and express your issues, but it's quite another to treat Dave/ESP with such disdain and fallen grace, that he no longer thinks of us in the same positive light he once did anymore. The minority of people around here that liked the new TM were made to feel like outcasts, because we didn't agree with the veterans (a lot of new fans even driven away because this place was unwelcoming to them). TMA's long held reputation went down the drain in the process, and for what? Apologies all around wouldn't hurt.


Your post just really really rubs me the wrong way. Love ya to death but good god that was one of the worst posts I have ever read on this website.

Where to begin?

This series of events with ESP/Jaffe and disrespect.... is completely the opposite of what really happened.

No one was disrespectful jackasses; at least not TMA regulars (random weirdos anyone?). This website used to stand for intelligent discussion, and we prided ourselves on that (awards anyone?). How in the hell is dissecting gameplay and making comparisons being disrespectful? Being disrespectful would be cussing a storm or wishing death upon a dev (like Truth said with Diablo3). Breaking down how and WHY design decisions created an otherwise unpleasant experience is not that, not even close.

If anything the people who voiced problems with the games and discussed it in an intelligent manner were blacklisted and slandered to high hell.

Take for example TMHO and its launch: No one liked TMHO. Fact. We discussed why it sucked in very poignant manners (eg: gameplay). No one had a panic attack there did we? No. And no one was disrespecting ESP at that time by laying out why it was a bare bones gameplay experience. How was this new game any different? Oh right, because there was a witch hunt on anyone who had a problem with the new game made out by a few members.

We are fans of Twisted Metal for a reason, not blind fan-boys. There is nothing wrong with criticism. Just because someone is ignorant as fuck about what we are talking about and screaming that we are being disrespectful, does NOT make it so.

-----------------------------------------------------

Second, its clear to me this website will never recover. It is dead. And its too little too late to make changes. But i dont really see any changes, seeing as the bias and tone of your post make it quite clear who and what you are talking about. And the idea that we should fall in line like blind fanboys doesn't sit well with me and doesn't make a lick of sense either.

You want to scold a certain "clique" of people for their terrible behavior while you are absent...? Yet you have let Blair back at the website time and time again, and Hellbent... running around like an unchained hound who never followed the rules and helped DESTROY THIS WEBSITE FOR YEARS gets no mention whatsoever? And you dont read the website, so you are taking some seriously bias morons at their word at what others are doing.

You routinely knew Hellbent was wrong on almost every occasion, you knew he was destroying the website... and instead of diffuse the situation and tell him he was wrong (hell you are the only one he listens to), you DID NOTHING. I respect you so I never posted our conversations or said a single word you say (or tell a soul).

This happened on many many occasions, and again... NOTHING.

You could have prevented wars and stopped the hemorrhaging of this community years ago, but did NOTHING. Now suddenly you care? This is far far far too late my friend.

I simply dont care to be a part of a community that turns on its own members, will uphold lies and fraudulent claims, and has clear bias issues when it comes to laying down the law. I have technically left the website ages ago and looked for greener pastures to discuss video games without getting into battles and found some nice substitutes.

But really... How many people have to leave before the obvious problems becomes clear? I guess mods/admins were afraid Hellbent would slit his wrists if he was ever banned? So an entire community has to accommodate one problem poster? And at the expense of the community itself?!

-------------------------------------------------------

Whatever.

This entire post was really disjointed but it is from the heart and honest (as I always am when I post).

Mort - I respect you and consider you a friend, I really do, and have stood up for you time and time again. Know that i have no ill will towards you, still think of you in good light, and im being honest as a friend.

I understand that you want to put a muzzle on the community now of all times but because you have picked and chosen your battles for years, its cost TMA its soul; the people. Me. I can't just keep taking this abuse and watching the site crumble. Its not worth it. I am ten years older, have a career ahead of me, and don't have time to educate (babysit) and fight ignorance any longer.

I wish you the best with TMA 2.0, I was never one to care about it too much and didnt mind posting here.

But again, I will not be a part of it, as I am pretty sure many others wont. I want no part in a website that harbors disgusting human beings and people that are toxic to any form of discussion such as Hellbent.

To everyone else, ggs. Will keep in touch in other avenues.

My original register date was Feb 2003, so I guess its fitting I leave after a ten year stay. :)

EDIT: Means I will still pop in to glance from time to time, but my involvement with the site is pretty much over completely.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/16/13 at 17:13:24
And I was talking purely about what has went on on Totally Twisted.

Regarding Brawl- that's not my fight.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/16/13 at 18:31:05
I don't wanna make this too long, because I've got other shit to do, Taken to kill with a cheap flashlight, and most importantly, this will more than likely to my last post at TMA anyway.

See now, I came here close to five years ago looking for news and info on the future of Twisted Metal, since all we had gotten at that point was a shitty PSP game, and a slightly less shitty port of the same game to the PS2. Instead, what I found was a rough and tumble community built on gaming as a whole. Sure, I was overwhelmed at the fact that there was a whole group of people who loved Twisted Metal as much as me, but in the end, I've come away with much more. Because of TMA, and more importantly, Brawl, I've made a bunch of new friends, stepped into this generation on gaming, and have had some of the most entertaining multiplayer experiences I've ever had, just short of X-Men Legends and my 4-way adapter. Totally Twisted is hardly active now, and we just had a totally new, decade-long awaited game drop just over a year ago. And it's been next to dead for months now. What do you think is gonna happen with this ABC Family Night TMA 2.0 you have cooking, Mort? It's going to die a slow, painful death and you'll only be able to sit there and hold it in your arms and watch it take it's last breath.

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Webmaster. I have the utmost respect for you since you did, in fact, create this site (well, real TMA I mean). It's because of your creation that I feel the way I do. Had I come to the game much later, I'd have no clue what's going on in this thread, but because I got here when I did, I got to experience the majority of what everyone is talking about. You cutting off Brawl On The Wall, siting that it just doesn't work anymore is like a slap in the face. Brawl was the pumping heart, feeding life-blood into TMA and keeping it from flatlining when Twisted Metal went on a ten-year hiatus, throwing us scraps into the backyard in the form of TMHO and it's port. TMA would have been dead in the water had it not been for Brawl, and this is how you repay the people responsible? By backhandedly telling the those responsible that they're now irrelevant? Roadie, Xizor, SynthR... They're absolutely right. You don't give a shit about the community, or the members who maintained it. Instead, you let Hellbent run wild, doing whatever in the fuck he damn well pleased. It was almost like you let him loose to assassinate Brawl, and have a reason to usher in this "new" Downtime horseshit. You might as well have changed the board name to your hand and middle finger with the vets names written on it.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Dim Shades - on 03/16/13 at 18:44:41

SynthR wrote on 03/16/13 at 15:58:38:
This is exactly what's being said. 95 percent of the vets (who are probably 95 percent of the activity at this site) posted on Brawl on a daily basis and they got along. We talked about anything and everything. BOTW existed for that sole purpose. It didn't have to be about Twisted Metal, wasn't supposed to. Yet, when we have differing opinions about TM, developers, what have you, they become marked for death for speaking. Tough. That's life. Now all that is being canned? Sounds PG to me.

This calm water paradise that's being dreamt up isn't going to happen, certainly not for the reasons that are being stated. We won't be missed? Nobody wants to be here, so ditto.


Yeah. As a first generation TMA'er since February 2000, Brawl on the Wall was one of the original walls on TMA. It was that place where a little wackiness, a little hint of anarchy could be practiced with certain unspoken limits. My presence has been uneven here the last few years but I always liked to creep in and have some laughs at BOTW, enjoy a little ball busting and conversation. TMA's brand has always been more 'R' rated, less regulated, more freedom-friendly since the walls came on back in 2000.

If TMA truly becomes a tightly regulated, bland, PG-rated, politically correct website where we all have to wear mandatory kid-gloves it will be just another paint-by-numbers, cardboard cut-out of a website that can be found anywhere. What made me stick around TMA for well over a decade was the colorful, individualistic community and the unique points of view that spanned across it. We each have a unique personality and perspective -- switching to a more PG-level site is like watching your favorite TV show jump the shark on purpose.

I can safely say I don't like the road that we are driving on -- the road to PC, PG, kid-glove country. It's hara-kiri to the infinite power. TMA is the Titanic and I'm the son of a bitch who is jumping out in a lifeboat before we hit the PG-rated iceberg. Like I said earlier in this post -- my presence has been uneven the last few years but this post cements what I see as the future of TMA. I've been a poster at this site since I was in my early teen years and now as I approach 28 I have to cut the umbilical cord of TMA off me....never thought I would see myself breaking away from this place but the cock and balls (the heart) of this place is being cut out. I'll keep my cock, balls and individuality over being a bland, boring, politically correct robot. Fuck that jazz.

R.I.P. TMA
2000-2013


Goodbye.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Zerathustra on 03/16/13 at 18:48:32
I have always come here to support the true Twisted Metal series, & I wholeheartedly agree with the opening post. It has been ugly here & exponentially unwelcoming in parts of Totally Twisted. I do wish it would go back to the old TMA where there was structure & regard for high esteem; the worship Mort speaks of that we had for the developers. It's a beautiful game & I have been trying to keep there servers busy as well, been hosting my own unranked unlimited carnage deathmatches in case people want to late join without delay. You'll see me in a room by myself waiting for that unsuspecting noob or a cacophonous & intense one on one with a pro.

Here's to TMA as always, as I do live here.

As for Brawl, you vets can have it, I never liked it much, just Totally Twisted because ten years never hindered my obsession.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Thumpy on 03/16/13 at 19:29:00
I have to agree with RoaDiE on this one.
Seriously Mort I would not impose too much control around here, if people can't express themselves they will leave.

I also feel Mort has done enough for the community and owes us nothing.

If I ran this site TMPS3 would have killed my will to continue further development, but I do believe a much better TM is on the way regardless of what Jaffe says, so when the PS4 comes out this site will be ressurected again along with the TM franchise.

Also thinking about forming a new clan, if anyone is interested please let know ( not sure if anyone would be but if enough are I might pursue it).


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Hellbent on 03/16/13 at 21:16:04
A fair amount of people hate me and i totally get that.

Personally i'm sad to see BOTW go away. But as long as groups of people can have their entire experiences at TMA ruined by a single poster. Then BOTW isn't something that can be around.

When BOTW was slow often times i would be the only one posting and replying for weeks straight. This wasn't because of a lack of tolerance but due to a lack of participation, even from the people complaining about me today. This would be the first dry spot where i've been blamed as the source of the lack of posters rather then the only person participating.

In the past BOTW was something that kept the people who participated in it around. It wasn't something we took too seriously. We took TMA seriously and BOTW was were we hung out when we couldn't tolerate talking about what we want in next TM or which vehicle everybody likes the most.

Blair for example wasn't hated for his insulting TMA posters. He was hated for how he would rip on the TMB style. He'd insult Jaffe for not making TMB exactly like TM2. Even Mort for supporting Jaffe. Nobody liked him for that and as he continued his downward spiral as he got way too involved to the point of attacking TMA. To this day he still takes everything which occurred on BOTW and TMA as serious business.

I imagine because when he spent what, $600 for his own post? Nobody on BOTW liked that especially not me. So i bombed his purchased post in protest losing my status in the TMA leadership. Is that one of the terrible things i've done over the years that made things so miserable for you at TMA?

How about V-wing? We ragged on him relentlessly. You know why i felt it was okay? He never played any TM games. He came to TMA and stuck around for BOTW and the social side. Which was really just people calling him queer for a couple of years. Your group would still be bashing him today if he were around.

I bashed on P7 as much as everyone else here. But with you guys that kind of stuff never stops. At least i leave people alone after a little hazing unless i'm given reasons to hate someone. You zone in on them like a pack of wolves.

Regardless of how you feel about me. All i hear are apologies, salt, and no explanations for your own behavior.

"Hellbent" isn't a good excuse either. I don't believe anything I've done could spur that much salt out of an entire group of people that aren't looking for fights. I'm the person dealing with a group of people. I should be the one who can't tolerate it anymore.

Truthfully i couldn't tolerate it anymore and that is a large reason why i attacked the people who i attacked on BOTW. I bombed Blairs post because of his anti TMBO/Dave/Mort speech because i couldn't tolerate it. I ragged on the things you guys enjoy because of the way you trash TMX, TMA, and even Dave and ESP. It's not something we tolerated on old TMA.

Deep down we don't get along. But the reasoning for me attacking you guys has always been right there out in the open. If you need me to take blame for all this drama then BOTW can't be around. You'll just go crazy again the minute i find reasons to not like the next X-box shooter.

Hell i left the Borderlands 2 thread alone specifically for the sake of you guys enjoying your game. Even then with your favorite game to distract you. You find time to post negative stuff about TMX. A game which i believe every one of "you" no longer own.

I'm an asshole but i'm no hypocrite. I'm no longer attacking you. But i do want to know why TMX needs to be ragged on so hard.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by DARKFORCE on 03/16/13 at 21:45:23

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by GeneralChaz9 on 03/16/13 at 21:53:54
Obviously I am a newbie here.  Been a fan of Twisted Metal ever since I got it on my PSOne as a kid, about 6 or maybe 7 years old, maybe younger.  When I started getting into TMB, I started becoming extremely interested in every Twisted Metal made(even 3 and 4).  Sometimes I stumbled upon the old TMA.  Not the forum part, but the part with all the bios, history, the stories of each character; I loved it.  I was only maybe 12 at the time I found the site, but I thought TMAlliance.com was the coolest damn place on the internet.  Recently, in the past month or so, I finally got around to posting on these forums, being 16 now.

I suppose I am far too late.  By the looks of things, most of the veterans are leaving, Brawl is going down(which I haven't even started posting in there yet), and Hellbent is getting A LOT of hate.  Honestly, he is really one of the few that I actually see post in the Totally Twisted board.  Does he say things I disagree with?  Of course, everyone disagrees with certain things.  I haven't read anything from the past 10-13 years, or however long, so I cannot judge about the past.  

The present is barely working.  I feel as if I must stay here, just to try and keep up the activity.  I love Twisted Metal as much as the next poster, so I feel like this is almost a last resort to saving the game.  Many of you say that you've had close relations with developers, including Jaffe himself by talking to them through IM, email, even Twitter now.  This site was mentioned in the special thanks of the new TM game.  That is how important we are to the series, and if this site goes down, that could even hurt the chances of another Twisted Metal being made.  

I thought the new ideas for TMA 2.0 will be awesome, but it sounds like it will only be used for information on Twisted Metal.  No Brawl and stricter rules are going to turn off many of the few members left.  Mort, I would rethink your ideas, so it makes the members happy.  

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoaDiE on 03/16/13 at 22:03:42

Hellbent wrote on 03/16/13 at 21:16:04:
How about V-wing? We ragged on him relentlessly. You know why i felt it was okay? He never played any TM games.


He played TM2PC for years.

You might not know that cuz you didnt play.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Truth on 03/16/13 at 22:06:07

Hellbent wrote on 03/16/13 at 21:16:04:
A fair amount of people hate me and i totally get that.

Personally i'm sad to see BOTW go away. But as long as groups of people can have their entire experiences at TMA ruined by a single poster. Then BOTW isn't something that can be around.

When BOTW was slow often times i would be the only one posting and replying for weeks straight. This wasn't because of a lack of tolerance but due to a lack of participation, even from the people complaining about me today. This would be the first dry spot where i've been blamed as the source of the lack of posters rather then the only person participating.

In the past BOTW was something that kept the people who participated in it around. It wasn't something we took too seriously. We took TMA seriously and BOTW was were we hung out when we couldn't tolerate talking about what we want in next TM or which vehicle everybody likes the most.

Blair for example wasn't hated for his insulting TMA posters. He was hated for how he would rip on the TMB style. He'd insult Jaffe for not making TMB exactly like TM2. Even Mort for supporting Jaffe. Nobody liked him for that and as he continued his downward spiral as he got way too involved to the point of attacking TMA. To this day he still takes everything which occurred on BOTW and TMA as serious business.

I imagine because when he spent what, $600 for his own post? Nobody on BOTW liked that especially not me. So i bombed his purchased post in protest losing my status in the TMA leadership. Is that one of the terrible things i've done over the years that made things so miserable for you at TMA?

How about V-wing? We ragged on him relentlessly. You know why i felt it was okay? He never played any TM games. He came to TMA and stuck around for BOTW and the social side. Which was really just people calling him queer for a couple of years. Your group would still be bashing him today if he were around.

I bashed on P7 as much as everyone else here. But with you guys that kind of stuff never stops. At least i leave people alone after a little hazing unless i'm given reasons to hate someone. You zone in on them like a pack of wolves.

Regardless of how you feel about me. All i hear are apologies, salt, and no explanations for your own behavior.

"Hellbent" isn't a good excuse either. I don't believe anything I've done could spur that much salt out of an entire group of people that aren't looking for fights. I'm the person dealing with a group of people. I should be the one who can't tolerate it anymore.

Truthfully i couldn't tolerate it anymore and that is a large reason why i attacked the people who i attacked on BOTW. I bombed Blairs post because of his anti TMBO/Dave/Mort speech because i couldn't tolerate it. I ragged on the things you guys enjoy because of the way you trash TMX, TMA, and even Dave and ESP. It's not something we tolerated on old TMA.

Deep down we don't get along. But the reasoning for me attacking you guys has always been right there out in the open. If you need me to take blame for all this drama then BOTW can't be around. You'll just go crazy again the minute i find reasons to not like the next X-box shooter.

Hell i left the Borderlands 2 thread alone specifically for the sake of you guys enjoying your game. Even then with your favorite game to distract you. You find time to post negative stuff about TMX. A game which i believe every one of "you" no longer own.

I'm an asshole but i'm no hypocrite. I'm no longer attacking you. But i do want to know why TMX needs to be ragged on so hard.



Just like the example Roadie gave.Your bullshit/lies never stop which is why this thread exists.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/17/13 at 00:37:40
I think this is really pointless/and/or stupid but it doesn't really matter since I was planning on moving on soon anyway.

I have seven days to finally put up a post I've been working on and then I'm good.  

I hope your plans work out for you.


Edit

I do want to point out that:

1.  NONE of the long time vets trashed ESP, OR Dave.  We expressed clear and valid disapointment for the game, but we did NOT trash them.

2.  Dave DID trash us.

So yeah.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/17/13 at 01:09:13

Hellbent wrote on 03/16/13 at 21:16:04:
A fair amount of people hate me and i totally get that.

Personally i'm sad to see BOTW go away. But as long as groups of people can have their entire experiences at TMA ruined by a single poster. Then BOTW isn't something that can be around.

When BOTW was slow often times i would be the only one posting and replying for weeks straight. This wasn't because of a lack of tolerance but due to a lack of participation, even from the people complaining about me today. This would be the first dry spot where i've been blamed as the source of the lack of posters rather then the only person participating.

In the past BOTW was something that kept the people who participated in it around. It wasn't something we took too seriously. We took TMA seriously and BOTW was were we hung out when we couldn't tolerate talking about what we want in next TM or which vehicle everybody likes the most.

Blair for example wasn't hated for his insulting TMA posters. He was hated for how he would rip on the TMB style. He'd insult Jaffe for not making TMB exactly like TM2. Even Mort for supporting Jaffe. Nobody liked him for that and as he continued his downward spiral as he got way too involved to the point of attacking TMA. To this day he still takes everything which occurred on BOTW and TMA as serious business.

I imagine because when he spent what, $600 for his own post? Nobody on BOTW liked that especially not me. So i bombed his purchased post in protest losing my status in the TMA leadership. Is that one of the terrible things i've done over the years that made things so miserable for you at TMA?

How about V-wing? We ragged on him relentlessly. You know why i felt it was okay? He never played any TM games. He came to TMA and stuck around for BOTW and the social side. Which was really just people calling him queer for a couple of years. Your group would still be bashing him today if he were around.

I bashed on P7 as much as everyone else here. But with you guys that kind of stuff never stops. At least i leave people alone after a little hazing unless i'm given reasons to hate someone. You zone in on them like a pack of wolves.

Regardless of how you feel about me. All i hear are apologies, salt, and no explanations for your own behavior.

"Hellbent" isn't a good excuse either. I don't believe anything I've done could spur that much salt out of an entire group of people that aren't looking for fights. I'm the person dealing with a group of people. I should be the one who can't tolerate it anymore.

Truthfully i couldn't tolerate it anymore and that is a large reason why i attacked the people who i attacked on BOTW. I bombed Blairs post because of his anti TMBO/Dave/Mort speech because i couldn't tolerate it. I ragged on the things you guys enjoy because of the way you trash TMX, TMA, and even Dave and ESP. It's not something we tolerated on old TMA.

Deep down we don't get along. But the reasoning for me attacking you guys has always been right there out in the open. If you need me to take blame for all this drama then BOTW can't be around. You'll just go crazy again the minute i find reasons to not like the next X-box shooter.

Hell i left the Borderlands 2 thread alone specifically for the sake of you guys enjoying your game. Even then with your favorite game to distract you. You find time to post negative stuff about TMX. A game which i believe every one of "you" no longer own.

I'm an asshole but i'm no hypocrite. I'm no longer attacking you. But i do want to know why TMX needs to be ragged on so hard.


This is the exact horseshit we've been talking about. No one from Brawl has bad-mouthed TMX in an extremely long time, because no one from Brawl has even bothered with the TT wall. The only reason it got fired up again was because Arch moved the thread to Brawl, essentially putting it in our faces. It's just more of your crap, Hellbent. Just like all of your accusations as to why no one liked TMX. You just make up your own crap, ignore their replies, then repeat it over and over. You damn good and well what everyone's issues were with the game, but you just kept on saying the same one-lined bullshit like a scratched CD in a shitty CD player.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by NightShade on 03/17/13 at 01:51:26
Gonna make this quick. Not gonna address the TM stuff, just the perception that Brawl is going to become some sort of PG hellhole.

TMA, as it stands right now, is broken. Can we all agree on that? The hands off approach doesn't work. People are leaving left and right, and have been for a long time.

People hate all of the fighting, so we try to fix it. For example: Hellbent. Okay, so you want him to stop instigating fights - well, if we're gonna punish him we should have an across-the board rule to outlaw the behavior you so despise. So we institute said rule. So now, the behavior you hate so much can no longer exist. This isn't a rule meant to turn TMA into a "PG" site where people have to hold their tongues. It's just meant to alter the behavior that is driving people away, whether it's coming from HB or elsewhere. As for the renaming of "Brawl" - we're not getting rid of it, but the name "Brawl" just screams arguments. Why give a board a name that is basically just promoting fighting? Is nostalgia that important?

I hope you guys know that I understand what Brawl is about, and that the heart of TMA is and always has been its community. Obviously this is a long time coming, and again, I'm not saying it's going to fix everything, or bring anybody back. I can't make people stop hating each other, and I can't go back in time, but I want to at least try to do something instead of watching TMA rot.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by joe twisted on 03/17/13 at 03:15:07
I'll start with a reply to Nightshade when he asked what brings "me" back here.  I think it's a mixture of nostalgia and loyalty.  I had been lurking the site since TMB was announced and started posting when TMBO came out, but I consider it my first real gaming community.  The intensity and comraderie and challenge of TMBO and this community is the closest thing I'll ever know to professional gaming.  I was a very good athlete in high school (state finals in swimming, junior olympics and nationals in wrestling) and I felt the same rush playing this game in college as I did playing high level sports.  I loved it and the community around it.  I imagine that is the case for most of us that have been here for a long time, a lot of it was our age at the time and how close knit this group was.  Even with those we "hated" there was a common respect because it was so freaking competitive and we all talked to each other.  That is something that sticks with you, and even after hurricane Katrina and me moving around a good bit I found my way back to TMA at the temp site and it's that nostalgia and loyalty that brought me back and keeps me here.  That is a long winded answer to your question, but I felt like it should be answered.

As far as Mort's post goes, I think it's a great example of how far removed from the community you are Mort.  The "disrespect" that was being thrown your way was drummed up by HB and P7, and you seem to buy into everything they said.  No one felt entitled to TMA 2.0 and the reason it became a joke is because you let other people talk for you (HB and P7).  The "disrespect" was always aimed at them, not you.  You talk about how you just wanted to play the games and talk about TM, but you never did that.  You were never apart of any of the pre TMX conversations I saw, although I could be wrong about that as I was absent before it was officially announced.  Anyways, the discontent was never about you or TMA 2.0, and all the vets were fine with you riding off into the sunset because you had brought together such an amazing community.  I can't speak for everyone, but I honestly think most would be fine with posting here indefinitely if not for Hellbent.

As for the cancer in TMA, HB can say all these things about how he is only one person and blah blah blah but when he destroys every conversation it just becomes not worth the hassle.  The fact that you'd make an entire rule set for this site just to stop one asshole person should speak volumes.  Most of us like to "brawl" because it's actually a lot of fun to argue your point, especially with adults that can speak coherently and will actually listen and respond accordingly.  Arguing with Hellbent is like arguing with a police siren.  It's really loud and obnoxious, has flashy lights, proves nothing, and makes you give up.  This isn't high school, you don't punish the whole class for one bad apple ...

And finally, as for the TMX discussion I actually agree that some of the vets were needlessly negative about the game.   I remember getting in an argument with a bunch of vets that had to be settled through pms and AIM so that we understood where each of us were coming from.  I wish we would have come together to find a way to make it work like we did with TMBO and TM2PC (even though I barely played TM2pc).  I don't think any of the vets turned on Jaffe or ESP, but the connection problems just compounded the issue so much it was unbearable and needed a vent.  

lol there's so much to talk about it's hard to address everything in one post and keep it concise.  

Anyways, as someone who doesn't even really play games with this community outside of once in a blue moon (I'm a pc gamer) I'm very thankful for the community you created Mort.  I have memories that I will never forget, and people that I'm friends with and will continue to be friends with for a long time regardless of us playing games together or not.  I hope somehow this all works out and TMA 2.0 or TMA temp hits the upswing because despite the issues there has been way more good then there has been bad.

Keep Twisted

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/17/13 at 03:22:27

NightShade wrote on 03/17/13 at 01:51:26:
Gonna make this quick. Not gonna address the TM stuff, just the perception that Brawl is going to become some sort of PG hellhole.

TMA, as it stands right now, is broken. Can we all agree on that? The hands off approach doesn't work. People are leaving left and right, and have been for a long time.

People hate all of the fighting, so we try to fix it. For example: Hellbent. Okay, so you want him to stop instigating fights - well, if we're gonna punish him we should have an across-the board rule to outlaw the behavior you so despise. So we institute said rule. So now, the behavior you hate so much can no longer exist. This isn't a rule meant to turn TMA into a "PG" site where people have to hold their tongues. It's just meant to alter the behavior that is driving people away, whether it's coming from HB or elsewhere. As for the renaming of "Brawl" - we're not getting rid of it, but the name "Brawl" just screams arguments. Why give a board a name that is basically just promoting fighting? Is nostalgia that important?

I hope you guys know that I understand what Brawl is about, and that the heart of TMA is and always has been its community. Obviously this is a long time coming, and again, I'm not saying it's going to fix everything, or bring anybody back. I can't make people stop hating each other, and I can't go back in time, but I want to at least try to do something instead of watching TMA rot.


To summarize the Bastard point of view Night, "too little too late". Sorry.

I can honestly say that the vets/Brawl community has never been more united than it is right now with our hatred for Hellbent and the direction this site has been on for a while now so this "fighting" that you speak of that people hate doesn't really exist outside of two issues: Hellbent and poor site management.

But, we've already taken care of both of those. We don't need to wait around for people to do it for us....we just, did it ourselves.

If Mort or other people don't want anything negative to ever be said about any Twisted Metal game then you guys should probably take down the whole website because unfortunately people on the internet sometimes have different opinions about stuff.

After all, its not like the entire time that most of us have been at TMA that we haven't heard endless shit about how people prefer one Twisted Metal over another for various reasons. So God forbid some people not like the new game and express those views. If I had a dime for every time I had to read some reply from a TM2PC vet about why TMBO was shit and the pros and cons of ramming I'd be rich enough to just buy the Twisted Metal Alliance brand from Mort altogether and pay a group of Harvard grads to design a proper 2.0 within a month.

Our slice of the TMA pie doesn't matter and Mort has made that crystal clear so its not like anyone cares if we leave anyway. I know you are trying make amends but it doesn't matter because you only matter if you're in Mort's walled off inner circle, you play TMX, or you have enough money to throw at the site to have some say in how its run.

"The fact that you'd make an entire rule set for this site just to stop one asshole person should speak volumes." -- Joe Twisted

QFT

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/17/13 at 04:43:36
I'm going through everyones replies and I'll reply to your points in order, rather than one huge reply. I appreciate all the honest replies, no holding back.

@XIZOR

I completely understand the lack of updates has been bad, but from my side of things I never actually felt too detached from the actual TM side of TMA. I was still playing TM2pc with people from here, I still talked with all my TMA friends on AIM before TMX came out, I just didn't post on brawl or on TT. I felt my time was better spent finishing 2.0, that's when I planned to join in the discussions (once the game was actually out). And because of my THEN tight relationship with David Jaffe throughout the entire development of TMHO:ETE and TMX, I could no longer discuss the game as a fan, and speculate on things with you guys, because I knew the answers already (or could just ask Dave). That relationship is long over now, and I'm apparently no longer revered by anyone either side of things, so I can speak more candidly now. But I still love TMA and Twisted Metal, one of the few games that keeps me addicted more than a week at a time.

Also, if me not responding to "hey" or "hi" from screennames I do not recognise or introduce themselves first, is me damning them infomation about 2.0, then my bad. You could at least come play TM2pc with us, or do something for TMA that triggers a response from me to know who you are worth my time. Nothing personal, but I don't respond to people that just say "hey" or "hi" then expect me to do all the work. I've apologised for the lack of updates.

I don't ever read brawl on the wall, and I never make decisions based on anything HB or P7 tell me. I always talk it over with Nightshade first, everything. I'd never do anything he was opposed to. It might surprise you but some of the changes were not my idea, but I support them. Nightshade and any other admin was more than entitled to suspend (or even ban) Hellbent at any point, and I apologise if any of the admins felt they could not do so for the benefit of the site.

Brawl is very low on my priority scale in the grand scheme of things TMA, and if Night or any other admin felt HB should be banned, but didn't because they feared my wrath, that's just more misinformation for you and I'm sorry you believed that I would not support that. Everyone tells me to not believe what HB says, but then everyone believes we're best friends and I don't know where this info came from but HB (and you tell me not to believe what he says?). HB is out for HB, I don't believe any of this had anything to do with me personally. If Brawl never spiralled out of control because HB was suspended or banned, I'd support the decision, but I'd also support him as a friend and try to help him through it.

This reminds me of everyone thinking P7 is also my best friend. I haven't talked to him in forever, the last time was when people were posting fake mock-up pictures of him in porn (or something), and he came to me all angry and wanted them deleted. I said, "Do you want me to shutdown Brawl? It's never going to stop otherwise.", he said no. Brawl has always been a hostile climate, anything goes, you are either cut out for it or you aren't. All this time by me not doing anything was supporting that culture, because I knew that was what brawl was like. If you can't handle the heat, you get out of the kitchen (and stick to TT).

I thought people would understand that. What I didn't understand or believe was that it got so bad no one could stand HB anymore. What do I believe? Brawl has never been my domain, never my place of expertise, so why should I make grand decisions concerning the place? It should never have got to me, and if you let something get to me, you let months and months pass without fixing the problem yourself, you might not like the results when I have to do something (and this is what happened). I never wanted this, I wanted nothing to do with it. I've heard people threatening to leave all the time, but they never did. So this time it was real? Apparently not, it took my post to do that. I'm the bad guy.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/17/13 at 06:08:42
@lemmywinks

Welcome back Lemmiwinks! I remember you from back in the early TMBO days, and wondered why you disappeared for so long. You hit the nail on the head for me in the fact people move on and find other interests all the time, they just simply don't have that time luxury they used to have when they were younger; to just shit the shit with people on internet forums. People have lives now, or personal tragedies that put things into perspective, we all got older. But we still all have one common bond - Twisted Metal; not Brawl on the Wall.

@SynthR

So why not start a new website called The Gaming Alliance? Oh wait, there is already a billion of those. What is special about TMA is that we were a community of TM fans, and we respected the developers. They put us in the special thanks for TMB, TMSB, TMHO:ETE and TMX (in a big way). These were huge honors for me, for everyone. That's us, this little community, got in the special thanks for a game - MULTIPLE times! Who does that?! We are special. This tiny little fansite got respect for our views, for our passion, for everything we stood for (quality in TM games). What you described TMA as you can do anywhere but at TMA, you just described the place as something completely opposite to what it is and what it stood for. So I absolutely get to say what TMA is and what it stands for, but you can choose to disassociate yourself from the place, and it sounds like you have already so I won't try to sway you. There are plenty of other sites you could be posting on instead, but you chose to stay here for the good part of a decade because TMA was a special place for you; brawl was your icing on the cake.

While I'm sure brawl is fun and you've made lots of friends here and played lots of other videogames together, that's not my TMA, that is not what I built the place for. TMA is an anti-TM3/4 fansite. I'm completely fine with Brawl existing if people can just get along and not have it get to this point, I understand the need for a place during the downtimes, but the brawl enviroment makes other 'normal' people not want to post and talk with you there when there is nothing left to talk about on TT. Running them off TT because they're 'wrong' about everything TM doesn't help either (not saying you did this specifically; but collectively).

I would have thought you'd appreciate me NOT laying down the law and policing everyone, which apparently is what I'll be doing from now on. If you were adults, you would see how you've been acting like children. Let me clafify that though: I didn't say you were children, I said you were ACTING like children. Plenty of enemies have figured out how to make up, only when the parents have to get involved is it because they're children. And it wasn't just me letting things get out of control, some admins were just too afraid to do anything and then I had to make the hard decisions. I apologise for them not feeling like they could suspend or ban Hellbent, if they felt it was the best solution. But hey, I'm the bad guy.

@The_Truth

Why not just come out from behind your alias and say who you are? I do not remember anyone outright disrespecting TMHO on the TMHO General board, ever. If anything it was very quiet (that silence probably says volumes). Same with the TMSB board. If you were a fan of the game, you posted there. There wasn't any negativity. If you weren't a fan of TMHO or TMSB you just didn't post there, simple. If someone went in and slammed either game they got ripped a new asshole from memory. Same for TMBO General, if someone said the game sucks, they were in trouble. You can't have revisionist history under an alias, to someone that founded TMA. I at least read the TM boards. And I know Kilrahi played TMHO for the good part of a year, which is surprising that in turn he couldn't hack TMX for a month (a far superior game; but with many more networking problems). I'm guessing TMHO was a long bout of denial for him, and when he turned on the game, he found it much easier to turn on TMX because it shared a lot of the same design problems in his eyes (and many others). You don't play a game for that long that you don't like, that would be like me now suddenly saying I don't really like TMx anymore. But he can speak for himself his reasons.

@Obliverate

That's true, most people that do stick around once TM gets boring, it's because of Brawl and all the crazy characters and cool people that have posted here over the years. Most people on Brawl don't even play TM online. But I'm not fighting for these people to stay, ultimately this is a TM fansite - niche or not, unpopular or not, TM has to come first. Anyone can make a cool website for people to talk about anything, but this is for TM fans. If you leave because you were only staying for non-TM antics, I wouldn't put in one ounce of energy to make you change your mind.

TT gets less activity than gamefaqs because: 1. Gamefaqs is a huge multi-gaming website. 2. They're fans of TMX. 3. TMA did not make them feel welcome enough to stay because of the vets running them out by the elitist attitude around here (their words).

A lot of people have come up with their own definitions of TMA; the ones where TM doesn't even come into the equation disturbs me. If brawl is all that was keeping you around, I won't miss you when you were gone. 2.0 might very well be a graveyard, but at least it'll stand by what TMA stood for all these years.

In the past I would think saying what some people have said in this topic (that they're only here for brawl and not TM) would get them run off the site, but now it's ok. But I'm the bad guy.

@SynthR

We have differing opinions on the most important part of this fansites existance. This site was founded on the very strong principle of 'No TM3/4 fans'. 989 Studios was a disaster. Now people are here not even for TM? We have a problem. You don't like the new game? You have a problem. It's not PG, it's what this site has always stood for, to support that great band of developers (Dave/Scott/ESP/Incog/SingleTrac) for making us the best TM's, the only TM's. You want to allow people to disrespect the new TM like we do TM3/4? I'm between a rock and a hard place. I might aswell sellout and go 100% PG and have TM3/4 sections on 2.0.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/17/13 at 08:13:53
@XIZOR

Keeping the spirit alive, that's laughable. There doesn't have to be a downtime between games if you just play the old games online, they are still fun and competitive. TM2pc and TMBo, everyone has them, everyone can play them. Keeping the spirit alive to me, is playing the games with TMA'ers. This is why I never considered myself as neglecting the community, because anyone was free to play the games online; there was an online community for both games, which would have only been stronger if more people joined. Posting on an off-topic board is not what I consider keeping the spirit alive; maybe it keeps your spirit alive for more posting off-topic discussions, but that's it. I'm aware that there is nothing really to talk about on TT for most years in the downtime, that's why you instead PLAY the games. There is no downtime to me, I was playing the games or working on 2.0.

So you feel like I neglected TMA, and I feel you neglected TM. Keeping 20 odd people together on the site that don't even play the games online (a fraction of them do), is not really what I call keeping the spirit alive. If there is nothing to talk about, play the game online with TMA'ers. If you aren't that into playing TM anymore, then that's your problem. Be honest with yourself. Lets keep it real, this is a TM fansite. I'm fine with brawl existing, but I don't think you were keeping the spirit alive for TMA, you just liked the people here and enjoyed playing other videogames with them; if you ended up liking the new TM, bonus. I've always respected people more if they played online with us. If so much time was instead spent playing the TM's you like instead of wasting time on brawl, we'd all be much happier. That's my opinion.

@RoaDiE

Worst post ever? FACT.

Re: Diablo 3, was there some fansite you can name that was in the special thanks for Diablo 2, whom then turned on Diablo 3? Infact, can you name any game that has a fansite in the special thanks, 4 times, let alone once? Then to have that same very fansite turn on that game and developer, and have that designer & developer think we hate it, and thinks all of TMA hates it? Everyone thinks TMA hates TMX. We took their hand and bit it right off.

Lets go back in time to when Dave found TMA, before TMB came out, and he leaked to us they were working on a new TM. HOLY SHIT! That was the best news ever. I couldn't believe it, the original gang is back making a new TM for us! They're gonna make up for 989 Studios! TMA worked! I'll admit I was a LITTLE disappointed with TMB, but nothing close to you guys and the new TM. Admit you think it was a bad game, I do not think TMB was a bad game; nowhere close to it. I'd play it if not for TMX.

Now you're saying no one liked TMHO at launch and that's a fact? That's news to me, I don't remember any of that. Everyone liked it, a bunch played it religously, but no one was talking crap about it or disrespecting Incog. I thought the game was average at best but I never posted that, anything negative people thought about the game wasn't posted, and if they did the pro-TMHO police would correct them. Dave never once said he didn't think we liked TMHO, TMA was still high up on the respect list. If it was true, if it was fact that no one here liked TMHO (which is total horseshit; ask Kilrahi, SoC, Kilrgn, etc), then that might have setup a troubling relationship with Dave. Why would they then go on to make TMHO:ETE? TMHO had been a best-seller on PSP, so Sony commissioned ESP to make TMHO:ETE for PS2, and everyone liked that too; some peoples videos were even in the end credits. There wasn't any dissent, if people didn't like it they didn't say anything (which is no crime). Dave then got the TM bug back and that set them off on a journey to spend the next 4 years making an all-new TM for PS3 - for us! The heavens opened up! Thankfully I loved the new TM, I'd hate to think the position I'd be in if I didn't.

There is nothing wrong with fair criticism, it's not so much what you said, but the results of what you said. People were ran off the site for having opinions contrary to yours, people were 'wrong' all the time for liking it, they did not feel like they could stay because the vets held so much higher ground. This is what I object to the most, the fallout. If you guys all did what Xizor did, and just moved on, this might not have happened, but people just can't help reigniting the fire that then sets off HB & P7, and everything just repeats again and again. You know they're gonna bite so why lay the trap? There was this strong collective effort from you guys to defend your views, and in the end it came off like TMA didn't like the new game and were telling everyone else why it's flawed. This is not what TMA was about. If you didn't like TMHO, or TMSB, you just shut your trap and talk among yourselves, and don't help bring the downfall of TMA. Ask Kilrahi why he played a bad game for a year, or Kilrgrn. Was TMBO bad when you defected to TM2pc? Everything just reflects poorly on TMA, that's my problem.

So you think this is just about not wanting HB to commit suicide, and not me trying to do the right thing for the community, and the future posters? Apparently HB listens to everything I say, if that were true he'd have kept the hell out of that brawl post. I told him to stop if he knows whats good for him, but he couldn't help himself. He kept saying he was defending me and ESP and trying to make you all look like hypocrites. I never read anything he was saying, I really couldn't believe he was really driving you people nuts. If so I'd have expected Night or some other admin to come to me and say, "We really need to do something about HB". It never got to that point. People said they would leave, they never did. Now they are once I actually do something? (the wrong thing apparently) Now I'm the bad guy.

Overall I'm sorry you feel that way, no hard feelings. You can't stand HB, I get it. None of my resulting action was for HB, he doesn't even listen to my advice because he can't help himself. You guys just keep egging him on and he can't stop. If he'd listened to my advice a month back none of this would have happened, and I'm sorry it has affected so many peoples lives. I never just listened to what HB said contrary to popular belief, I listened to you, Night, everyone that had 2 cents on the issue. I was never biased or taking sides, I never saw you guys as the TMBO clique (as you told me most of the people that are against HB do not even play TMBO).

@The_Dizaster_Child

You basically summed up the problem with TMA for the last decade, that the only good lasting part about it was non-TM discussion on Brawl. It was always the most popular board, TT struggled even when there was a new TM coming out. A videogame fansite should never be judged based on the popularity of its general discussion board. This is not a general discussion website, this is a Twisted Metal fansite. If people don't have much to say about TM anymore, so be it. It's up to me to keep the TM content coming; and I failed everyone there and take full responsibility for that. I don't mind having a general discussion board up, but not when it creates these people that think BRAWL is more important than TMA; the whole culture it created. I don't see Roadie at all part of what you describe, he actively played TMBO and TM2pc, that to me is keeping TMA alive, not brawl. So if you wanted me to keep brawl as it is and just ban Hellbent so you can continue having your non-TM fun on a TM fansite, that's not my agenda that's yours. Hellbent is just as angry as anyone at Brawl ending, he is arguably punished the most because he has more posts here than everyone else combined. Banning him would be the lesser punishment, but it was never about that. I'm glad everyone has chipped in with the general consensis that TMA is about Brawl and the community it created, and that it kept TMA alive all these years. So that means I failed in making a TM fansite. Time to hari kari!

@Dim_Shades

TMA will no longer be cool enough to be graced by your dim shades? Sorry to hear. Brawl may be dead, but TMA will be forever (if you are truly loyal anyway).

@Thumpy

I'm not enforcing anything or too much control, I've just given the admins license to have no fear on suspending people for disrupting the place and breaking rules. Banning is now outlawed in the process to remove that gray area, people are still free to discuss any topic just like they did in the past. The personal attacks however are over. People are taking things way too extreme thinking everything will be all PG-rated disney channel blah blah, not true at all. I'm not totally scrapping brawl from existance; on 2.0 you will still be able to read every topic old & new, completely uncensored.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by SynthR on 03/17/13 at 09:10:54
Well, that's that then.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/17/13 at 10:29:18
As far as Totally Twisted is concerned i don't have any special problem with Hellbent over any other problem poster.

Sometimes he throws the first stone. Sometimes others.

I have no personal feeling for the guy one way or the other.

But i will say that Hellbent does at least contribute to topics on the wall.

Remember this does concern TOTALLY TWISTED ONLY.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Skywalker on 03/17/13 at 12:01:01

Mortimer wrote on 03/16/13 at 01:56:35:
   

He had even offered to pay a years hosting when I finish 2.0  


there is no 2.0 yet




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-tQcjovS9I










Sorry to hear about the dissolved Jaffe relationship. He must've had his reasons and you must of had yours as well.

There is a lot of foul jaffe/esp/sony posts littered across this place. I'm sure at some point Jaffe was reading them but just couldn't anymore. As a mod they should've been removed asap. Accounts deleted if persistent.

There's too much history here for me to be posting in this topic. Apologies for my intrusion.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 03/17/13 at 12:13:56
I think one of the things that makes this so difficult is the simple fact all of us, the vets that understand TMA and who have been here for so long, respect TT Wall enough to take it to Brawl. As stupid as that sounds, that's always been the going rule for any TM related board, be it TT, Small Brawl, 2PC or fics. Sure some get out of hand and it needs to be removed but, that's been TMA also. STFU and take it to Brawl.

Unfortunately considering the span of time between any TM game that has been released in the last decade, Brawl was inevitably going to be the place to "hang out" because.....well....we sorta talked TM into the ground. Nothing wrong with playing all the games but, you can only discuss a decade old game at length for only so long. Even TMX irrigardless how anyone feels about it, can only be disecceted civily for so long.

In a twisted sort of way, we are our own worst enimies because all of us that have been here so long have either the culture of Brawl, or TT in us. It's not like Kilrahi (sorry dude but I got to use you) always hung out at Brawl like say....me or Hellbent or Xizor. Just like even when TT Wall was active, was I really a serious disscusser? No. I liked the game for what it was, moved on, and stayed on Brawl where I can be the irrisponsible idiot I always am. Even before we got Temp TMA, TT Wall was a graveyard. The only place really active was Brawl so....yea...in a sick way, we really weren't a TM Website.

I support the real TMs and those who made it no matter what.  I'm not going to lie when I say I honestly stayed here at TMA because of Brawl. If it's a problem because of that revelation, I'm not kidding when I say ya'll got to let me know. I would always still log in but, if me being kinda one sided on this site isn't doing right by you, tell me.  


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by James P7 on 03/17/13 at 12:54:31
Alright, I didn't want to post here but I need to clarify some things up.

My main reasoning for being here is because this is a TM fan site. This site was originally meant to support, defend and have a love for TM games and their creators. Thats why I came here in the first place. Because growing up, I never had anyone but one or two people in my life that I could talk TM with, so this site was a Godsend for me. When I first came here, TMB release countdown was on the home page. The TM community was alive and excited and thrilled for tmb's release months later and discussing the E3 demo. I was pumped. So when the new TMX was months from release, I didnt get that same feeling that we all did for TMB. Not because of my doubts with the game, but because everyone's attitude toward the new game. And more than anything, I wanted us all to have that excited feeling, so it upset me greatly. And then the disrespect for TMA and Mort bothered me as well, so I reacted. Yes, what I did was wrong, but my reasoning behind it was for very good intentions. Me being here is due to my loyalty to TM and to TMA and because I thought we had a great community.

Now, I think we all know here that I was never a big online person. I play the game mostly for the story and the single player experience. I really play all my games online on the PC, but there will be some games to grab my attention like Gears for instance that I will play online. And even though I am NOT currently playing TMX online everyday, does not mean in any way shape or form, that i do not like the game. I love the new TMX. It was a nice big step in the right direction. It, like all other TM games, has its strengths and weaknesses. Every TM had something or things unique that made it different from the other TM games, and thats exactly what this game had. It was a good refreshing TM game we needed and craved for years.  I fully support TMX as an awesome game. So, my biggest problem with some of you was that you made this game out to be a bad game, and make it sound like the connection issues were worse than they really were. I will not be going into details, but lets just say I got really upset over how this was supposed to be the game for all of us, and it turned out to be a game that for some of you, are on the same side of the fence as TM3/4, which made me ask myself why some of you were even here, at a TM specific fansite, to begin with. But - I have moved on from caring about that anymore. But that is what got me started on the brawling. Again, I talked to those who didnt like the game and we spoke off TMA, and we agreed to be civil and we understand each other now. So all the TMX brawling with me has been over for a while now. Now lets be clear here, I play all the TM games still. I just finished playing 1 and 2 on PSN, I played some TMX the other day, and TMB is always something I will go back to. I have not turned my back on TM or TMA. But, I am am also a gamer. I do not play TMX as much anymore because I do have other games to play. And more games get released. so even though i will always go back to TM games and TMX, being a gamer and all, I will always have other games to play as well.

Next one goes to Mort, I want to apologize, and explain why i havent been too chatty with you last few months. Sure, the issue about posters disrespecting me bothered me when you wouldnt do anything about it, but I moved on from that. The real reason I stopped posting on TMA for a few months and stopped talking to you Mort, is because I was ashamed. See, I had stopped working due to being on Medical Leave of Absence for a couple of months and I couldnt afford to keep donating to the site. I felt ashamed and I couldnt afford to pay anymore. So, I left you alone. I didnt want to bother you, I know you were busy. I also stopped posting here to calm things down. Yes, I do care about the site enough to walk away for a little bit just to see if things would be better when i got back. I still read posts, just didnt post myself. So yea Mort, I stopped talking to you, because I was ashamed that I had to stop supporting the site financially. I had hoped that someone here would actually AIM me or something to encourage me or to see how I was doing. Or maybe just a "hello how are you". I never got that. So I got even more depressed.

So, to sum up. Regardless of what you think, I am a huge TM Fan ( I even have a TM walk of fame section in my room with all the memorabilia) and my main goal here was to support TM and TMA for as long as I can. My love, dedication, and support for TMA and TM games were unconditional. But, for the most part, my dedication fell on deaf ears. A person can only take so much grief before it starts to weigh on me heavily. It made me depressed. And I also felt the admins would rather suck some community cock than help me out when I asked for it. And this was a small issue, but I got the feeling that my status was conveniently delayed constantly. Not a real issue for me, but I felt like it was never going to happen. And no one was posting, no one was happy here. Everyone was hostile towards another. And I completely lost it. I felt like what was the point? It had stopped being a TM community at that point and I felt like no one was listening.

I am over that now.  And I really hope TMA remains a strong entity. Because it does deserve its place in history. It is a real shame that things happened this way.  But every community has something like this happen. Just like friends, just like families. Run-ins like this will happen. We are just people here. And I hope it will grow back. And Mort will get his wish back. With all his hard work, I hope it pays off. Its gonna be real nice when TM 2.0 comes, because e did a great job on it. And I have seen it grow over the years, just a little bit. But enough to keep me wanting more. So, TMA 2.0 will be a nice treat for those who stick around.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/17/13 at 13:17:10

Mortimer wrote on 03/17/13 at 08:13:53:
@XIZOR

Keeping the spirit alive, that's laughable. There doesn't have to be a downtime between games if you just play the old games online, they are still fun and competitive. TM2pc and TMBo, everyone has them, everyone can play them. Keeping the spirit alive to me, is playing the games with TMA'ers. This is why I never considered myself as neglecting the community, because anyone was free to play the games online; there was an online community for both games, which would have only been stronger if more people joined. Posting on an off-topic board is not what I consider keeping the spirit alive; maybe it keeps your spirit alive for more posting off-topic discussions, but that's it. I'm aware that there is nothing really to talk about on TT for most years in the downtime, that's why you instead PLAY the games. There is no downtime to me, I was playing the games or working on 2.0.

So you feel like I neglected TMA, and I feel you neglected TM. Keeping 20 odd people together on the site that don't even play the games online (a fraction of them do), is not really what I call keeping the spirit alive. If there is nothing to talk about, play the game online with TMA'ers. If you aren't that into playing TM anymore, then that's your problem. Be honest with yourself. Lets keep it real, this is a TM fansite. I'm fine with brawl existing, but I don't think you were keeping the spirit alive for TMA, you just liked the people here and enjoyed playing other videogames with them; if you ended up liking the new TM, bonus. I've always respected people more if they played online with us. If so much time was instead spent playing the TM's you like instead of wasting time on brawl, we'd all be much happier. That's my opinion.


There doesn't have to be a downtime "theoretically" between Twisted Metal games, yet there always is so you're ideal situation where we all play past TM games while we wait for the next one only really happens on a very very small scale and to be honest, as much as all of us love the franchise, most of us don't want to play and talk about any of them, consistently, for five plus years. TMA, as a small niche fan site, doesn't really have the number to sustain itself on playing old TM games alone.

You saying that I wasn't "keeping the spirit alive" is also a huge fucking insult not only to me, but to a large group of my peers. We were not only keeping the spirit of both Brawl and TMA and Twisted Metal alive as well when no one else was posting here. NO ONE! Including you and all the supposed fans of TM weren't even around until the new TM was announced. WE were here talking about TM, playing it, playing other games, and keeping the site and discussions going. Not you, and not anyone else BUT us. Then TT started bustling again and we were all hyping up the new game and getting all excited for TMX and the site was returning to business as usual; TM fans talking about TM. But where were you at during any of that time?

Keeping 20 odd people together on the site that don't even play the games online (a fraction of them do), is not really what I call keeping the spirit alive.

And how were the 20 odd people from your clique that were playing old TM games, in private and not including anyone here that might not be privy to such activities, before the release of TMX any different than those of us who were keeping the other side of TMA alive on Brawl and TT? Were you or anyone else besides the Brawl crowd organizing games of Twisted Metal to "keep the spirit alive" on TMA? No. But your version of how TMA should be and how it actually is is all the same thing to me. It's TMA members coming together to play games, sometimes its TM, and sometimes is another franchise. Your ideal member of someone who just plays TM and talks about it consistently for 10 plus years hardly even exists here. Therefore, your idea of what TMA should be doesn't really hold up compared to what it actually is.

And your whole comment about not responding to random messages of "hi" or "hey" on AIM and not knowing who some of us are is complete bullshit. You know who I am. I've been here for a decade, played tons of TM with everyone, including a few games with you, and my AIM screen name is XIZORTMA. XIZOR.....TMA. If you don't know who I am or who anyone is that might be trying to contact you outside of the website by now, when some of us have been here for 5 plus years, it's because you don't take the time to come here and get to know anyone, and that's a large part of our problem. You only care about people who play TM with you and everyone else is irrelevant? Who is being elitist now?

I've made lifelong friends here who, ironically, I've never even played a single game of TM with. Do you know that most of the TMBO crowd still keeps in touch to this day, even though a lot of us don't actually play it any more? Regardless of what you think, that is powerful stuff and says a lot about this community and its members. You just don't seem to understand that TMA is more than just a TM fan site to a lot of people. I know that's what you want it to be, that's what it was designed to be, and I can totally respect your view on that, but the reality is that that isn't what TMA is about to a lot of people. It shows how out of touch you are with the community that you don't even understand what the life blood of it site really is. In fact, you seem clueless about anything that really goes on around here.

I understand that you were in an awkward position prior to the release of TMX having insider information straight from Jaffe, but that really is just an excuse to not post here at all. The truth of the matter is that most of us wanted to get to know you, wanted to be your friend, wanted you to be a part of the larger TMA community because we thought you were a pretty fucking cool guy, but you simply did not care to get to know any of us nor what we thought about TMA or the concerns we've had.

The only message I'm getting by reading through your replies, though, is that being in the credits of a TM game is more important to you than anything else including the way the website is run all the way down to the community at large. You're only stepping in now to try and fix the situation and pretend to care because YOUR reputation is on the line and Jaffe isn't your friend any more. That seems selfish to me.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Skywalker on 03/17/13 at 13:59:41
I'm too unfamiliar with how things work around here. I'll just say that Brawl does seem to be essential and that the vets (regardless is they play TM anymore) could use a lounge

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrgrn on 03/17/13 at 17:02:42
Who am I? To Hellbent and Mortimer, I am probably but a stain on TMA that they've been trying to scrub away for years. To the rest? I'm not so sure. I have a few people I'd call friends here, and that makes me happy that I had the opportunity to meet these people in the first place. To meet the man whom I've shared life with for 5 years, that I will continue to share my life with, hopefully till we die. For these things, despite your disdain towards me, I say thank you.

TMA/TM have had the biggest impacts on my life. I suppose that shows what a lacklustre life I have but that's alright. I don't mind. Why? Because I'm proud of it.

Back when I first started using the internet, it was to check for game hints/tips/cheats whatever. I found myself coming to TMA often, and that's just how it was. I didn't know how the internet really worked back then (Mind you I was in my late teens), but I figured since I was on the site all the time I'd sign up. I had no idea what was in store. TMA was my first internet interaction, and I was overwhelmed by the fact that there were people out there who cared about TM like I did. I was overwhelmed by the attention I got, and didn't understand why. And I, like most people made my mistakes when I first joined but I'd hoped that by now I'd some how redeem my reputation.

Prior to even joining TMA, I played TMHO non-stop online, and I enjoyed the hell out of it. You're right in that regard Mort. Once people saw I was someone who played TM games I was invited to play TM2PC online. Despite you not liking me there, I wanted to play. I tried to play to always make games for people to join. No one wanted to join unless you were playing and more often than not, you didn't want to join BECAUSE I was playing. When I did get to play, I had a lot of fun. Hell, I even helped everyone who wanted to set up TM2PC so we could have more players. It was hell and a half to troubleshoot everyone's problems setting up TM2PC, but I did it because I cared about the game and building the community. I had a belt at old TMA and here, commemorating this for fucks sake. Beyond that, Roadie was kind enough to explain the gameplay mechanics, and tactics that were used to help me win. From there I learned that there was much more depth in TM2PC, and that I liked the people we played with (liking someone doesn't have to be a two-way street for me), so I stopped playing TMHO altogether.

Then over the years people stopped playing TM2PC altogether and I wanted another TM to play. By this time TMHO servers had gone down and I didn't realize people still played it on Kai. Even after damaging my rep with the TMBO players, all those years ago, they were kind enough to take me in. I STILL play the shit out of it when time allows me to. And yeah, I had one rough patch and it was then fixed and I've had no issues since that year and a half ago.

Not one person here can say that I wanted TMX to fail, or that I didn't give it a chance. I bought a second PS3, and a second copy of the game because I feared I'd have to share with Spyda. When I love something, I fucking hate sharing. I have TMX posters all over my walls. My TMX shirt Jaffe himself gave me is also hanging up because it's too big for me. My ST RC car, and my TMX cardboard ST's are still adorning the room. Why? Because I love the TM series and I support it with all of my heart. Just because I didn't like some of the mechanics in TMX, doesn't mean I hate Jaffe, or TMA, or anyone who likes it. I've told people who like it "I am GLAD that you do." I have no right to take away someone's happiness just because I didn't enjoy it myself. It's childish and stupid. All I did was voice my opinions and concerns in the most polite manner I could muster. Then, I stopped talking about TM altogether in fear that no matter what I said, Hellbent and his fucking brigade of followers would eat me alive, unless I praised TMX as being the fucking golden age of gaming. That's not how to live, and that's certainly not the TMA I remembered so I went to post on BOTW.

But you know what?

I consider myself part of BOTW now despite still being an avid TM gamer. I could still hang with the people I made friends with and not have to say anything that would piss anyone off about TMX. Then Hellbent goes on another rampage or two and makes me fear posting on there. Yes, I realize it's BOTW. Yes, I realize that's where shit talking goes, and honestly I welcome it. There is however one fundamental difference: We may have all fought over the years, shared bad blood, and spit copious amounts of venom. The difference was, we got over it, and went on to still coexist. Hellbent however took it a bit too far and created irrecoverable damage.

We are in fact adults. Because we are able to get over it and move on, we are acting like adults. But when this one fucking poster, wont listen to a damn thing any of us have to say, and instead attacks the personal lives of posters like Magnum who are meant to be unbiased, for no reason, is beyond shitty and it is not okay whatsoever. I don't know how many fucking times this needs to be said in this thread but punishing us all because of ONE poster is fucking bad adequate. Like I said, over the years we've all been able to grow up and move past things. HB has not.

Removing BOTW is just a bad idea. I don't care about the archive, I don't care that you think renaming it will be any better. The fact of the matter is, because of your absence, TMA evolved into what it is today, despite you liking it or not. TM is on it's last leg, what makes you think driving out some of your most dedicated posters to shelter the young is a good idea? What makes you think that you'll get more people on the site this late in the game? Yes, this is a TM fansite, I get that. But why take away something that is a huge part of TMA? It might not be to YOU, but look around you! Look at the rest of us! I still play TM games and I'm being punished here. Why? Because HB took it too far? Fuck that. Hit the root of the problem, don't kill the entire field.

When it comes down to it, I felt that most of you didn't like me to begin with and to be honest that was okay. At heart, I was here for the TM, and I liked you all despite the nagging sensation. Over the years, from what TM and TMA have meant to me, I'd be shattered to see it fall from grace because of one man and one bad decision.

I've worn this on my neck since I got it engraved, an engraving that was stronger than metal, that went deeper into who I was as a person.

I'd be devastated if I had to remove it.



Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/17/13 at 17:24:52

XIZOR wrote on 03/17/13 at 13:17:10:
[color=#ff0000]And your whole comment about not responding to random messages of "hi" or "hey" on AIM and not knowing who some of us are is complete bullshit. You know who I am. I've been here for a decade, played tons of TM with everyone, including a few games with you, and my AIM screen name is XIZORTMA. XIZOR.....TMA. If you don't know who I am or who anyone is that might be trying to contact you outside of the website by now, when some of us have been here for 5 plus years, it's because you don't take the time to come here and get to know anyone, and that's a large part of our problem. You only care about people who play TM with you and everyone else is irrelevant? Who is being elitist now?


See, this is a large part of what I was trying to express as well. I've been here almost five years now, and I never saw you, Mort, make a single fucking post until TMX was about to drop. Sure, you can misconstrue what I said, or take it the wrong way to make me look like a dick, but the fact of the matter is that I, who came in with the last generation of posters to stick around, am more in touch with this community than you are, and you're the guy that created this fucking place. What does THAT say?

And yes, you completely took my post the wrong way, almost making it sound like I don't even give a shit for the franchise or the site. Well since you're here now, let me introduce myself since I've flown under your radar for half a decade. I've been a fan of the series since before it even came out, back when EGM ran a preview article on the game. That 10-page spread made my brain race with anticipation for what looked to me like Death Race 2000 in game form. I even had my mom convinced into buying me a PlayStation and a copy of Twisted Metal the day the game came out (about two weeks before my bday). I've been playing them ever since, even when I had no friends to play it with and I'd just be playing story mode in loop for years on end. See now, I've been a loyal fan of TM since day one at the minimum. Sure, it may have taken me eight years to find this place, but then again, the people here -you know, the ones who've taken the time to know me and become my friend- know that I'm not very tech savvy and don't spend a great deal of time on the internet. I spend more time in my driveway with my real cars, not the digital polygons on my tv screen. But my ignorance to this place, nor my ignorance to technology (being the network adapter and how to get TMBO going) makes me any less a TM fan than anyone else here.

Also, you seem misinformed of the TMX debacle to a large extent. Yes, we scrutinized and ultimately disliked the new game. We had our beefs and arguments back and forth for a period. But the majority of us left it behind and resumed normal Brawl discussion. We stopped going to TT and picking or instigating fights with the noobs. We just stopped caring. The game was what it was, and we moved on. The only throwdowns after that period was when the arguments were brought to Brawl were it was now in our faces, in our backyard so to speak. We'd speak our piece and try to drop it. It was always Hellbent pushing buttons and keeping the drama going. And he knew who to poke, and how to poke them, even falsely accusing people of the motives behind their views. So yes, I believe eliminating Hellbent would have saved a ton of drama and made Brawl a much less intimidating place to post, even for new posters.[/color]

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoaDiE on 03/17/13 at 20:33:42
Since I notice some of the same things coming up about the TT wars. I'll elaborate on my involvement on the matter.

When the game first came out I was obviously very displeased with it, and for a WIDE variety of reasons.... I tried to play it but it really wouldn't stick. I felt it was an inferior gameplay experience, and obviously could articulate very well as to WHY and HOW this was the case. I had played TMBO and TM2PC for eons and know how the depth works in those games, and this one just didn't even hold a candle.

After voicing my opinions, it became apparent very quickly that some others took bits and pieces of my issues and condensed them into slanderous and outright incorrect pieces of information.

HB, P7, and Tyrant were the big three back then, and some threads they OR OTHERS would mention things like:

"Oh the ones who dislike the new game hate the homing missiles" or
"they wanted TMBO 2"...

So imagine reading that in some random thread, after having taken EXTREME TIME and care to detail how and why i felt the new game wasn't up to par gameplay wise? It was infuriating to be misquoted and tarred as some hater for reasons that were completely false. I had to jump in and correct these false and slanderous statements. How is it wrong to defend one's self. And not to mention nothing was done about this constant slander thrown around. So i had to do something.

Sadly, correcting this shit never solved anything, HB and crew KEPT REPEATING THIS SHIT. The mods I reached out to to stop this slander from happening time and time again, didnt really do much.

Prime examples of shit i had to deal with every fucking thread, and slander at its finest:

HB: "people who dislike the new game just want TMBO style missiles"
ME: "No, I want missiles that act and behave how TM has always had missiles...TMX missiles are generally too fast, spammy, and undodgeable... I want unique and deep missiles like it was in all the games of series, tmb included"
HB: "nah you just want TMBO missiles"
ME: "no..."
-------------
HB: "you want to be able to have lots of dodging, like in TMBOl"
Me: "dodging was in EVERY SINGLE TM game, TMB/O included. TMBO didnt invent dodging to the series..."
HB: Rinse repeat same slander statement in another thread.
-------------
HB: "You are a TMBO fanboy and just want a TMBO sequel and hate change"
ME: "No i played TM2PC for 8 years, it was my favourite, and I didn't mind change from TM2 to TMB one bit"
HB: Rinse repeat same slander sentence in another thread
-------------
Notice the trend of TMBO that i never bring up but apparently is my core issue?

And the damage that this sort of shit does is catastrophic.

"Ignore it" you say? Well not so fast.

Noobs and people who dont really understand my concepts or my explanations cling to these statements and regurgitate them like clockwork.

Pretty soon the entire board was filled with the notions that we hated silly little things here and there and having entirely WELL THOUGHT OUT AND SMART points reduced to "they want TMBO style homings" was awful.

This helped fuel the entirely fake "TMBO fanboys hate the new game" and imaginary/make believe concepts that we hated TMX for no reason. Pretty shitty.

So really what do I do? Allow this shit to take place... hell no, I wont.

Another important piece to note, and this is of no offense whatsoever:

If you never played the older games like I did, then you wont have a fucking inkling of a clue as to wtf i was talking about when i was dissecting the gameplay of the new game (HB, P7, Tyrant)... so its easy to just make up your own assumptions as to WHAT I AM SAYING when you have zero understanding of the subject matter.

Its like someone attending and listening to a seminar on quantum physics when you haven't made it past the 8th grade in science.

Im the type of person that will not stand back and watch myself and my friends opinions be warped and maligned into something they are not. And especially not when its being told im being disrespectful. When I am clearly not. Like ive said before, just because someone screams something at the top of their lungs a million times, doesnt make it true.

If I see incorrect information about anything TM in general, or blatant lies... I would jump in and defend what is true. Im sorry folks, but the game didnt really function at launch, and YES we had people here who literally said we were making it up. I was called a liar countless times for this.

This website in its prime, used to stand for intelligent discussion and very deep thinking about TM games in general. Gameplay concepts and depth were discussed in the utmost length. Most of these members that participated are gone, as its been years since the older games have been around... and really all thats left are mostly non-TM vet people and a bunch of forum vets. Back then we would shut down any misinformation very quickly, and we took pride on being informed and educated (awards were dealt for intelligent and thoughtful posts to which i had numerous). If you didn't know wtf you were talking about, you didn't have much place to voice an opinion, or lie. If you did, you were reprimanded for that.

Ten years later however, we have people spreading lies, and tarnishing what is factually accurate and correct.

You have people like Hellbent talking straight outta their ass about stuff he hasn't got an ounce of experience in: the online Twisted Metal games. (Or at least not even close to enough experience to justify his opinions)

Hell you guys might have seen some of the quotes he has put out that are just so far from being right they arent even wrong. They're far past being wrong to the point where one's intellect is damaged should they read it.

Holy shit we even had people CLAIM that dodging in previous TM games was a glitch and an exploit. And that homing parameters for weapons were just accidental.

Guess what guys? Some things arent opinions. Theyre facts. Sorry that hurts anyone's feelings. But if there is enough evidence to suggest something, it just might be the case. You can argue till the cows come home that Spectre sucks in TM2PC, but you'd be wrong. Dead wrong.

Unfortunately Hellbent has such a problem with being corrected that he thinks its an issue of ego, or that I am disagreeing just because of who he is. He doesnt really know me, or many other people who played the games, so to his credit its understandable why he might jump to that conclusion.

However back in the day, when someone with experience was talking, you listened and learned how and why you are wrong. Not in this man's case. He started wars simply because he couldn't accept simple facts from people who played the games and knew wtf they were talking about. Unfortunately when someone yells the loudest usually they win out, and as such the noobs and lesser minds somehow believed his BS time and time again.

-------------------

So for me, my part, I jump in when I see something wrong. And back then, it was mostly slander directed at me and others. Tarred and feathered for doing things we didnt do, and hating the new games for reasons that were not correct. Defending one's self and one's opinoins apparently is pretty bad, and means im starting shit right?

And im just as guilty? Gimme a break.

After seeing what shitheaps of lies and crap can do, and how it goes unpunished... it became clear to me that this site is no longer for me.

EDIT: And its a known fact people used to bash the fuck out of TMBO and constantly spew lies (gee could that be hellbent again?) and even come onto TMBO general to do such. Nothing was ever done about that back in the day.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/17/13 at 21:10:14
It should also be pointed out that despite our best efforts, the narrative crafted by Hellbent and others became the narrative that Dave Jaffe responded to.

Maybe it's because he, in the end, is like so many others and will quickly make false assumptions based on emotion, but either way it was hard to stay quiet during all of that.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by NightShade on 03/17/13 at 21:28:29
A few notes. Again, just on the Brawl side of things:

You guys keep saying we're punishing everybody for HB's behavior. No. We're punishing anybody that partakes in that behavior, HB or not. It's stupid to make a rule that only applies to one person. Are you stirring shit? Probably not - so it doesn't apply to you. If you decide to stay, keep on doing whatever you're doing on the General Discussion forum, talking about games, music, TV, movies, whatever uninterrupted.

Also, before I get lynched, I want to clarify that I HAVE talked to Mort about HB and his behavior in the past on numerous occasions.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by joe twisted on 03/17/13 at 22:43:29
Just a quick note to Mort's "I'm the bad guy" comments, the exodus happened before you made your post.  You can see how quiet it has been on brawl this past week and trace back to when it happened, but the people coming to post on here are doing it out of respect to you to tell you why.

Take that for what it's worth ...

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Luis on 03/17/13 at 23:27:33

Manta Ray wrote on 03/17/13 at 22:08:17:
Who the fuck has the time to read all of this?

*Raises hand*

By the way, I agree with the vets. I never seen a forum where the mods were not allowed to fix a problem by banning someone and if they do, their mod status gets removed.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/18/13 at 00:00:21

Manta Ray wrote on 03/17/13 at 22:08:17:
Who the fuck has the time to read or write all of this? All I gotta say..


The people who have been here long enough to care about what has or will happen to this site. Don't be a disrespectful jackass.

Roadie's post sums up what I've said numerous times already, but from a first-person perspective. Someone who's dealt with it head-on. Night, you may have talked to Mort about Hellbent's behavior, but did it do any good? Instead, he attacks someone who's never attacked anyone before, and has been one of the nicest people on this site. An unprovoked attack, no less. Come the fuck on...

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/18/13 at 00:18:25

NightShade wrote on 03/17/13 at 21:28:29:
A few notes. Again, just on the Brawl side of things:

You guys keep saying we're punishing everybody for HB's behavior. No. We're punishing anybody that partakes in that behavior, HB or not. It's stupid to make a rule that only applies to one person. Are you stirring shit? Probably not - so it doesn't apply to you. If you decide to stay, keep on doing whatever you're doing on the General Discussion forum, talking about games, music, TV, movies, whatever uninterrupted.

Also, before I get lynched, I want to clarify that I HAVE talked to Mort about HB and his behavior in the past on numerous occasions.


First off, I should state that as Joe Twisted mentioned, most of us are only coming here now because we finally feel like we have Mort's ear and can say what we've been wanting to say for, oh I don't know, YEARS! So this whole thing about people leaving has already happened only myself and a few others wanted to take advantage of his opportunity to make sure its crystal clear as to why TMA has become unacceptable to many people.

If you decide to stay, keep on doing whatever you're doing on the General Discussion forum, talking about games, music, TV, movies, whatever uninterrupted.

Keep on doing what we're doing on the newly reformed and generically named GENERAL DISCUSSION board that exists on every other website ever? Yeah, no thanks. Changing the name alone is pretty much a slap in the face to the entire community that has resided there for years in my opinion. I know that sounds petty and childish but it is in fact insulting whether it was intended that way or not. Changing the name of the board doesn't in any way solve any type of problem.    

Not to mention, all of our stickied Brawl threads magically disappeared for no reason or warning other than to usher in this new Nazi regime as far as I can tell....? Why were the Let's Fuck, Gamertags, TMA Chat, TMA Game Reviews, The Fallen TMA Posters threads deleted or taken down if we are supposedly allowed to just go back to business over there as if nothing changed but the name?

It's been mentioned to me that these might have been "taken down to archive" but that doesn't make any sense so if I'm speaking out of line here and this was just a glitch within the purging of that board or there is something else I don't know then please correct me, otherwise, that comes off as yet another slap in the face.

Either way, it doesn't matter because we don't want to stay here. Hellbent is a parasite that has continued to suck the will to live out of this community for far too long. We've all talked about it at great lengths and apparently its even reached the highest levels of power here, yet still nothing is ever done about it for whatever reason. If lots of members want him gone, Webmasters/Admins/Moderators are fine with him being gone, and that would appease a great majority of TMA, then....why is he still here? Do I need to go and get 10, 15, 20 more people who haven't even replied to this thread yet to say the same things we've all been saying to drive the point home?

The reality of the situation is that as long as Hellbent is around, to quote Mort here, "he can't help himself". What that translates to me is, "Hellbent can't help but be a fucking retarded asshole, but its not my problem". Most of us are so disgusted with his behavior over the last couple YEARS that just him being around is unacceptable at this point. Its not like you can just ignore him either because he constantly has to be right in the middle of every aspect and corner of the website. Go look at the "Generic Discussions" board right now and tell me who's name is on the last reply to almost every thread.

We all know that even if the leash is tightened now, eventually the dog will break his chain when Mort and Night decide to go back to the shadows and TMA is left to its own devices again. We aren't suffering through any more bullshit here, only to turn around and be blamed for the problems that are plaguing this website in return.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/18/13 at 01:22:39
I do tend to stay away from Brawl I've made that much clear.

But I'm under the impression that the guys who want Brawl to remain love this part of the site because it is a gloves off anything goes forum?

That your not happy because General Discussion is just a generic chat board with no actual brawling any more?

But surely if Brawl was all about the no holds barred fights then Hellbent was just simply part of that?

Or If you all hate the way Hellbent went on on that board then now the change will curb his (and others who go to far) ways?

We all as mods and admins now have a set of guidelines to stop that behaviour on the new board.

Sorry if I'm missing the point but that's my thought anyway...

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by NightShade on 03/18/13 at 01:23:14

XIZOR wrote on 03/18/13 at 00:18:25:
First off, I should state that as Joe Twisted mentioned, most of us are only coming here now because we finally feel like we have Mort's ear and can say what we've been wanting to say for, oh I don't know, YEARS! So this whole thing about people leaving has already happened only myself and a few others wanted to take advantage of his opportunity to make sure its crystal clear as to why TMA has become unacceptable to many people.

If you decide to stay, keep on doing whatever you're doing on the General Discussion forum, talking about games, music, TV, movies, whatever uninterrupted.

Keep on doing what we're doing on the newly reformed and generically named GENERAL DISCUSSION board that exists on every other website ever? Yeah, no thanks. Changing the name alone is pretty much a slap in the face to the entire community that has resided there for years in my opinion. I know that sounds petty and childish but it is in fact insulting whether it was intended that way or not. Changing the name of the board doesn't in any way solve any type of problem.    

Not to mention, all of our stickied Brawl threads magically disappeared for no reason or warning other than to usher in this new Nazi regime as far as I can tell....? Why were the Let's Fuck, Gamertags, TMA Chat, TMA Game Reviews, The Fallen TMA Posters threads deleted or taken down if we are supposedly allowed to just go back to business over there as if nothing changed but the name?

It's been mentioned to me that these might have been "taken down to archive" but that doesn't make any sense so if I'm speaking out of line here and this was just a glitch within the purging of that board or there is something else I don't know then please correct me, otherwise, that comes off as yet another slap in the face.

Either way, it doesn't matter because we don't want to stay here. Hellbent is a parasite that has continued to suck the will to live out of this community for far too long. We've all talked about it at great lengths and apparently its even reached the highest levels of power here, yet still nothing is ever done about it for whatever reason. If lots of members want him gone, Webmasters/Admins/Moderators are fine with him being gone, and that would appease a great majority of TMA, then....why is he still here? Do I need to go and get 10, 15, 20 more people who haven't even replied to this thread yet to say the same things we've all been saying to drive the point home?

The reality of the situation is that as long as Hellbent is around, to quote Mort here, "he can't help himself". What that translates to me is, "Hellbent can't help but be a fucking retarded asshole, but its not my problem". Most of us are so disgusted with his behavior over the last couple YEARS that just him being around is unacceptable at this point. Its not like you can just ignore him either because he constantly has to be right in the middle of every aspect and corner of the website. Go look at the "Generic Discussions" board right now and tell me who's name is on the last reply to almost every thread.

We all know that even if the leash is tightened now, eventually the dog will break his chain when Mort and Night decide to go back to the shadows and TMA is left to its own devices again. We aren't suffering through any more bullshit here, only to turn around and be blamed for the problems that are plaguing this website in return.



I don't get why the name matters so much, but if you all care so much I don't see why we can't switch it back. The name is nothing to me, I just thought it might make it more clear to people that are new here to keep it a little civil. I feel like we've all moved past the "brawling" for sport thing - or at least want to - so it seems outdated.

As for shit disappearing, I don't know what the fuck happened. I didn't touch anything. Could be somebody tried to un-sticky them and they got eaten by one of the numerous glitches around here? Dunno.

And again, I get it. As I said in my first post in this thread, TMA looks to me to be virtually dead at this point. With the community leaving, all that's left is a virtual statue. Just figured it might be worth trying something new before shutting the doors.

I don't blame you or anybody else for being pissed and not trusting me, I know I should've been more present around here, but I haven't for a plethora of reasons and for that I apologize. But the whole point of these rules was to make it a more civil and enjoyable place to be for people that hate the current discourse around here so much. And I have every intent on enforcing them.

I do hope I can keep in touch with you all that are leaving, at least through XBL, PSN etc. The friendships I've forged here are what have kept me around for as long as I have been around (again, I know I've been AWOL in recent times, but I was consistently active on TMA for at least a decade).

And for the record, I'm certainly not blaming vets for the problems around here.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/18/13 at 01:26:24
Just about to edit my post with that Night.

It's only a name change.

The people can stay the same if you like?

You simply won't have posters spewing constant shit?

Why don't the guys who are wanting to leave at least give it a few weeks then make a decision?

At least you can say you gave it a shot?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/18/13 at 02:07:06
@ Archminion

LOL. Like I said before, you don't get it. I know you are trying to understand what is really going on here, but its not your fight man, at least not most of it.

@ Nightshade

The name really doesn't matter. But you have to understand that just the name Brawl on the Wall itself is yet another small touch that makes this website unique in its personality and sets the tone for what could potentially take place within that small space. Its not like we want the name because we want to BRAWL all the time or anything. Honestly, most of us have outgrown that shit, but it is fun to fuck with each other and new members from time to time. Its god damned tradition.

But lets not forget that, as far as I can tell, spam bots aren't overrunning Totally Twisted, yet no one maintains the same level of care over at Brawl. Why? Because its just "Brawl" to Mort apparently. It doesn't ultimately matter and the people that do care are tired of fighting that uphill battle.

By the way, why do we continue to have a spam bot problem here at all? I'm not quite sure just how hard or difficult the problem is to solve but this shit would have never happened at old TMA if people actually cared.

Also, we completely trust you Nightshade. We really do. You were the one who set up this temporary board to begin with and you were there in the trenches with us during the transition. You were a part of our group and I think if anyone you understand us more than Mort ever could.

We understand if you had life shit that kept you from being in on all the action lately. That's perfectly understandable, but it also puts you in the same boat as Mort in not understanding just how bad Hellbent became not only on Brawl, but on TMA in general. When you were hanging out with us over there, he was perfectly fine, but for some reason a couple years ago, he just went completely off the deep end. There is speculation that him being hit by a car might have jarred something loose in his brain, but we can't be sure. All we know is that he is a problem that none of us will tolerate any more.

As a side note, I do thinks its funny to watch him scrambling to be a part of the action on Totally Twisted these days, clambering for any sort of acceptance that the old veteran crew no longer gives him by trying to play TMX with people and act like he actually cares about the series now. Good luck making new friends with the newer crowd Hellbent. They will all eventually get tired of your obnoxious bullshit with time as well.  

Don't take us leaving personally because it has nothing to do with you Night, and I'm sure if you were in charge here things wouldn't be this bad, but they are because the people that could make the hard decisions just don't want to until the whole thing is falling down around them.  

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by DeathStrikesBack on 03/18/13 at 03:31:19

XIZOR wrote on 03/18/13 at 02:07:06:
By the way, why do we continue to have a spam bot problem here at all? I'm not quite sure just how hard or difficult the problem is to solve but this shit would have never happened at old TMA if people actually cared.
 


Because yabb boards are garbage technology that haven't advanced since the early aughts and we have a server and admin board that don't sync up with each other ever so we have to manually go through and delete every single bot (which involves having to type in our own username and password every time...twice. Once to look at the profile and the other to access and delete. I entered my own login details forty seven fucking times this morning) - because the buttons underneath the user profiles that allow us to 'ban username' 'ban IP' and 'ban email' don't work so they just keep coming back - that signs up instead of just having a batch delete members option or the ability to outright ban whole countries worth of IPs - which is incredible draconian and sad that we've even reached that state.  If we banned Russia, Brazil, China, India and Vietnam from even accessing the site you'd see a huge drop in spam. All of those factors combined is basically how these things keep coming back, even with the few users we have banned. Honestly, the one saving grace of 2.0 in my mind whenever it launches will be not having to deal with this shit. We might even make it over there and then I'd leave with a resigned ' my job is done here'.

Seriously, we have over 100 pages of fake accounts with about 12 per page.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mr.SLaM on 03/18/13 at 14:54:22
I've been on TMA since the olden days of past yonder, but I really can't see a huge problem with the temp TMA except for the fact that every damn thread turns into a fucking brawl.
An intelligent argument is completely fine and honestly people who hold an intelligent conversation on this forum is very limited. I'm sure many other people would participate if it wasn't really boring and if people didn't feel like they would be blasted down if they posted (how I feel at times)
Also by the time I venture into any thread there's already a fight going on between HB and Roadie. So why comment when it gets overshadowed?
So hopefully this sequel to TMA (2.0) breaths new life and energy to a very deserving video game franchise we call Twisted Metal.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/19/13 at 07:59:32
I understand a lot of this doesn't make sense to most people on the TT board and its probably annoying to some of you but if there was another place to have this discussion we would, believe me. Most of us were at the temp site for three plus years before we ever heard a peep out of Mort and problems have been occurring for a long time and this is the first time he chose to address them...for years. If there was clear dialogue between the community and upper management to begin with this thread wouldn't even be necessary.

At the end of the day, everyone here complaining about the drama has the option to...just not read it if it doesnt pertain to you right?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Surgeon -Rymagician- on 03/19/13 at 18:41:17
I've been posting here for close to 11 years.  I'll be brief.

-To deny that Brawl is what held TMA together through the dark ages is an argument so weak, it's almost laughable.  I barely post at Brawl, but I read it pretty regularly.  It's culture is unique, and to destroy it would be a disaster and a huge "fuck you" to the community.  I would argue that to remove Brawl would destroy the community.

-TMA is a Twisted Metal fansite first and foremost.  Love of Twisted Metal (and hate of TM3/4) is the only thing that unites us.  However, we should recognize and accept that each of us is going to have different preferences among the titles.  That should be okay, since TM1 and TMX are VERY different games.  So long as nobody tries to compare TMX to TM3, we should all be cool.

-The lack of TMA 2.0 has always been disappointing, but I've never felt anger or resentment towards Mort.  People grow and change, and keeping a fansite up is a huge commitment.  I think being angry with Mort for the delays in getting TMA 2.0 up is unrealistically demanding of a guy who owes you nothing.

-By the time we see a new Twisted Metal I will likely be in a very different point in my life.  I hate to see TMA go away, as I've always identified strongly with it, but we are entering into a new dark age- a gap between games.  The TMA community stands sharply divided, much more so than we were between TMB and TMHO, and TMHO and TMX.  I hope it survives.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Truth on 03/19/13 at 22:32:41

wrote on 03/17/13 at 00:37:40:
I have seven days to finally put up a post I've been working on and then I'm good.  


I'm hoping your post contains so much awesome that Hellbent has a fucking stroke half way reading  through it. That would certainly solve TMA's biggest problem. No PG TMA would be needed then!

Also Mort/Admins may want to have Hellbent clean up his signature before PG TMA officially launches. That is defiantly not PG material in there. I'm sure he'll get a pass though since he loves and plays TMX.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/20/13 at 01:41:26
Ah come on mods . . . you delete my reply but leave "The Truth's" up above?  (Not that I dislike your reply mind you, just saying, it's every bit as much in your face).  

Lets not start the new PG TMA with double standards.  Don't you think?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/21/13 at 00:15:43
Again, I'm replying to everyones replies as I read them in order.

@joe_twisted

No one forced them to say all that disrespectful stuff about me last year (if you ever saw it), you don't disrespect someone you respect just to rile up or win an argument, you just don't, it's low. Calling me lazy & a liar just to rile up HB & P7, really? Why drag me into this, can't win an argument with those 2 without dragging me through the mud? I might be 'far removed' from this community but all these assumptions being made are not helping anyone with the facts. Everyone assumed HB & P7 were my private ass-kisser squad, what did I do to make anyone think that? Why did anyone believe them? And I'm the bad guy.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to be here to 'appear' like I was still part of the community to discuss the upcoming TM release. I knew about its development long before it was even made public, when it was just a 'possibility'. I could not fucking wait for the game to come out! Throughout dev I gave Dave feedback, he showed me gameplay videos before anyone else saw them, and I loved what I saw. I was in the loop, and very excited, but I could no longer participate in discussion with TMA because there was no fun or speculation to be had, that was taken away from me once I was in the loop. And during this time I still played TM2pc and was working on multiple new versions of TMA. So don't ever question my loyalty and dedication to TM or TMA, I was in the loop like never before so much so that I couldn't say anything on TMA to risk jeopardising that relationship (which in turn can help TMA with exclusives, special thanks, etc). Again, just more assumptions that everyone was probably making about my dedication to TM; that I was lazy, liar, incompetant, etc.

The new ruleset isn't just for HB, another huge assumption. This has been a long time coming in respect to TMA earning back the respect it has lost, and change our new reputation for hating TMX (and apparently TMHO now aswell). This is not what TMA was founded on. We'd be nothing if Dave didn't find us back in 2001, most people would never have even found this site if not for all the plugs he did for us (in magazines and on IGN), and putting us in special thanks. I haven't forgotten this. Everyone loved TM2 here (it was the prime requirement, along with hating TM3/4), and when TMB finally came out everyone loved that too (besides people like Blair and AIC). TMSB and TMHO were not what I would consider 'great' TM's like TM2 and TMB, but they were still good for what they were. TMX was then suddenly lambasted like it was a bad game, it was insulting. It was and is far from a bad game that TMA is willing to throw all respect out the window just to support the veterans that don't like it and expect another whole new level of perfection.

HB & P7 are not the only bad apples on this site, this site was eating itself from the inside out and turning into something it never was before - that's cancer for you. I can't just go on supporting that forever and I regret letting it go this long, but I didn't want to be the bad guy. I wrongly assumed people were mature adults and would come around but I guess I was wrong once again because I was so detached from the community I created & fostered. The lack of loyalty around here is disgusting. Half of these people walking out don't think they're assholes, that's the funny part.

@SynthR

So long buddy! Don't call me buddy, pal! Don't call me pal, friend! Don't call me friend, buddy!

@xizor

Again, more exaggerated assumptions (making an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'). You can be critical, but do it with one iotta of respect for what you're being critical of, in respect to the fact that this is a TM fansite supported by the very people you are criticising not making X or Y feature perfectly to your liking. On old TMA that's why we had TMBO General and TM2pc General, if you don't like one or the other then keep the fuck away from the board you don't like the TM for (same for TMSB and TMHO). If you got too heated you were asked to politely take it to brawl, or you were put on moderation, or set a reply limit, or just had your replies deleted. When someone was found out to be a TM3/4 fan they were shown the door. But you could still criticise any TM game on TT if you did it with some respect, without starting massive fights & brawls. That's the root of my entire post. Sadly because there are so many veterans here that did not like TMX, and never had anything good to say about it, it made the site come across as anti-TMX to the point fans were leaving with the wrong impressions, and the TMX fans always felt like they had to defend the game (completely normal reactions).

What I object to is the fact these fights got so bad even a year later people have not got over it, the bad blood is still there. People acting like children, and I have to be the parent and try and break it up. Bottom line is people around here have lots of personal beefs, and those cloud most peoples judgment. All I'm trying to do is stop this shit once and for all. My allegiances are for Twisted Metal, and this community. Stricter moderation will help stop these problems from repeating again, but no one is giving it a chance and taking it all wrong. It has nothing to do with whether you can be critical of TM's or not. This is what the new rules are for, people need to criticise with respect, and debate with respect, this goes for both sides. If you're going to cross the line defending or attacking TMX then you'll get suspended, so problem solved.

Generally speaking people get over things fast and don't need to keep beating a dead horse; if you don't like TMX fine so be it just don't keep leaving snide remarks about the game on TT that rile up the strongest supporters. But also those guys should not be so defensive and just let the comments die, and not spark into another endless fight. People are jumping to huge conclusions that they can no longer be critical of TM's, and that everything will be PG-rated. If that's what you took out of my original post, then I'd hope to God you are never my lawyer.

For what it's worth I don't think HB thinks TMBO is shit, if he says that it's just to get a reaction or because he's angry and can't argue. Lack of ramming in TMB being bad or good is just an opinion that people are more than entitled to have either way. Darkside is in your signature, isn't ramming important to you? Good luck getting those Harvard grads, I don't think they work for dimes tho. Maybe they could link to the wikipedia page for that.

@Magnum

I don't have a problem you staying at TMA for non-TM, that goes for everyone. At the core we're all TM fans, that is our core bond; if it wasn't we'd be at some other fansite. We've all made a lot of friends (and enemies) here, and Brawl is Brawl. Brawling itself has never been serious, but people started taking it super serial (serious) to the point they said HB was a cancer and had to go, they wanted to run him out. A guy that has been here since TMB came out, and everyone used to love him. So much deep rooted animousity has been created in the last year, that he has become the new Blair; the next guy that must be sacrificed for the good of the site. Hellbent? Really? I admit I don't read brawl so I don't know the true extent to whatever HB has done, but at no point had yourself, as an admin, ever let me know that HB has gone too far and we should do something, otherwise I just think it's something personal. I know Roadie hates him (he hated a lot of people but is now friends with them), and by-proxy I know Xizor and SynthR hate him. If more people had voiced to me, maybe I could have been suspended or banned; but really I don't think brawl is my domain. I just hoped things could work themselves out naturally, everyone is big enough ugly enough old enough to do that right? Apparently not.

Either way I understand the importance of Brawl for keeping everyone together, because talking TM does get boring and we all run out of topics eventually. A lot of you guys fell on brawl to fill that gap, but I had 2.0 to work on and I could play TM2pc (and now TMX). I just don't think people should forget this is a TM fansite first, the importance of that fact. I'm also cool with people here playing other games together, I do. Brawl does a great service to TMA, but also a great disservice when it creates people that think the culture of brawl is more important than the foundation of TMA. I even planned to join the Brawl community once 2.0 was done, because it would be you guys that would be using it the most. Oh well.

@P7

You know more than anyone it's not easy to survive on TMA. I wish it wasn't so hard on you. I knew you were going through some hard times so I left you to your own devices figuring you had help already. I also thought I'd give you time to get over your anger at me over not doing anything about the pictures. You've always been one of my biggest and most passionate supporters and I appreciate that, so sorry to have let you down. You want 2.0 more than anybody and that's why you were so defensive of it & myself, it was frustrating. People just saw you as an kiss-ass rather than someone that was doing everything he could to help TMA (donating apparently being your worst offense).

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/21/13 at 00:23:29
@XIZOR

Where was I that whole time? I said in my replies above already, and it's not an excuse. So you guys really did have all this deep resentment for my absense; which is why you felt it so easy to disrespect me in my supposed absense. I wasn't saying people had to play TMBO or TM2pc solid every 5 years between a new TM, but maybe make an effort once a month? Everyone takes breaks aswell to play other games, I did. Also the online communities for TMBO and TM2pc would have been a lot larger if more people from TMA made more of an effort. If you fundamentally like the gameplay, you don't get bored of it. I never got bored of TM2pc/TMBO/TMX online, especially not if I only played once a week. You can do that, and post on Brawl, and occassionally post something TM-related on TT. Is it really that unreasonable?

I never said Dave wasn't my friend anymore, but I got a huge reality check that I really only had unchained access to him during the development of TMX and TMHO:ETE. I used to be able to talk to him on AIM anytime, now he's gone. It hurt, but he's just being professional. Why waste time talking to someone about TM when you're making a new game that isn't TM? One day he'll return to TM and that 'professional' relationship will return; he might still throw us a bone every now and then before that. I can still email him or direct message him on twittard anytime I like and get a response, but I don't want to waste his time. He knows how I feel, I know how he feels. He was very disappointed with the way TMA turned on TMX, valid reasons or not. It was very hard for him, and he felt hurt after all he'd done for us over the last decade, surely you can understand that? We were all hurt, people that didn't like the game were hurt. It all-around sucked.

So you IM'd me once and said "hi" and I didn't say anything? Shit a brick, call the wahhhhhhhbulance! All you're doing is proving why you have this beef with me, you felt ignored and unimportant to me; despite being made a mod here not so long ago. I'm a terrible person! I don't care about poor old Xizor! If you really wanted to get to know me more anyone would tell you the first thing you should do is come play TM2pc. I'm sorry I never posted on brawl, it just wasn't my thing, I'd rather do other things. But I was always interested in TM, I talk TM with tons of people all the time. So what are we fighting over again? That you aren't in my 'clique'? I'm not in yours because I don't post on brawl, woe is me. It didn't mean I hated you or disrespected you elsewhere, ever. I created TMA, my agenda was to make a TM fansite that is anti-TM3/4, anything else is a bonus and you're enjoying those bonuses. I never got a 360, I just don't care about other games (especially not FPS games like Gears and Halo or COD). I only got a PS3 for TMX, and I'm perfectly happy with it. That's how boring I am.

Again, you're telling me I don't know what TMA is. I totally understand what TMA means to people. At the heart you are TM fans, even if you don't care for some of them, or even play them much (or never online), that is the heart of this site. When you say you're proud to be part of TMA (or were), it isn't you and your little group of friends on brawl, it's that you are TM fans and the place was so special you stuck around and made friendships with other TM fans and play other games together. I did exactly this same thing. What I don't support however is saying that this 'brawl community' culture is what defines TMA, I'm strongly opposed to that; TMA is a TM fansite and off-topic discussions should never come first. But saying that I'm proud of the fact you guys have all become friends, it says a lot about the place. You could make friends anywhere else on the internet but you chose here, because TM fans are the coolest people in the world. I get that, I'm one of them. Remember on the old TMA one of the rules was, "TM1/2 are NOT just games!", and neither is TMA just a website. I just don't necessarily think it's right to house a 'community' of people on a TM fansite that don't really even care about TM anymore (due to boredom or not liking TMX), and only care about themselves and the value of their friendships made here to do everything but TM. Without TMA, you'd have none of that. I just expected more loyalty.

@Kilrgrn

I don't know where you got this perception of me from but Roadie (and he used to treat you like total shit right?). I have always talked nicely to you on AIM and in kali. To think I hate you because HB does is just more assumptions, and I'm sorry you felt that way. I appreciated you making the numbers in TM2pc all those years. I wasn't not playing 'sometimes' because you were playing, that's completely untrue. I didn't play 2v2 with you guys all the time when you were playing simply because the teams were not balanced, but I was always there for 3v3 because then we could have fun balanced teams. I didn't really like 2v3 much either. We had lots of balanced and fun 2v2's with myself, afro, aic, roadie, xav/px, over the years, and it was never because I didn't like 2v2 or didn't like you that I didn't play sometimes, it was always down to balancing and what would be fun and competitive. That's why you mostly only saw me when it was 3v3 time. Remember the excitement when we got 6 players in the game? We just couldn't wait to play, games were at least 30 mins, infact if we had an especially hard time getting everyone in the game we'd extend the game to 90 lives from 60 for each team. Sometimes I just didn't want to leave the game at the end.

But... I will admit I did think of you as a poser when you turned on TMHO, which you loved, and jumped in bed (not literally) with the TMBO'ers. I couldn't accept the fact that you loved TMHO, and yet didn't like TMX when it was so similar to TMHO, and then turned on TMHO. It just felt like peer pressure got the best of you so I lost respect for you, but I never posted that. I don't want drama. You know me, I hate drama. Just play the fucking game! Whatever TM game, just play it.

Overall your reply was calm & respectful, something I was expecting from everyone else but didn't get; so thank you for that. I love your dog tag. Again I'm sorry you thought I hated you, that is crazy (and I know you're no stranger to crazy; but you were the most sane in your reply). I don't really hate anyone. And anyone that played TM2pc has my respect, I would never forget how much effort you made to play (and that's how you met Spyda). As for HB, if more people came to me and said he had gone too far, besides just Roadie, maybe a lot of this could have been avoided. Not that I don't trust Roadie, but he used to hate SCoLD aswell; and now they're friends. I just left it up to other people to take care of, and we all saw how that turned out.

@The_Dizaster_Child

I didn't keep in touch with the community, I regret that now. It was a mistake. I was just so focused on 2.0, and all the stuff Dave was telling me about the game I just couldn't post until the game came out. I was busting to post, but I couldn't. I was torn between finishing 2.0 on time and keeping tight-lipped on TMX; I couldn't risk slipping up saying something I wasn't supposed to know. TMB was completely different, I had no ties to the development (and not 4 years worth either, that was just 2). I got to enjoy speculating with people. I'm not a fake person, I'm not gonna post and pretend I don't know the answers to people speculating, and I'm not gonna reply to everything acting like a douche rubbing it in everyones faces that I know more but can't say because I'm super cool and know Dave. Unfortunately it meant I didn't post this time around; it was a burden. You missed all the years I did post, did speculate, did get involved. I used to write novels on this site. My dedication to TMA and TM should never be questioned, especially now that I've explained everything. It's not excuses, that's just how it had to be. And those years I wasn't posting I was still playing TM2pc with people here who were my friends.

And are you really going to pretend you didn't reply to multiple TMX topics from new posters to add a snide remark, which HB & co will sniff out like sharks and start brawling again? You guys loved making fun of TMX and anyone that likes the game, admit it. And in the process I lost a lot of respect from everyone for liking it; infact I freaking love TMX. Check out my Youtube channel, I post tons of games and I'm still having a blast! As for being ignorant to technology, that's true of many people here (monkey king, magnum, etc), but TMX was the easiest and most accessible TM ever released. You can just jump online and play, don't have to get an adapter, don't have to know how to use a PC. I'm really just lamenting the loss of TMA not liking the game, because it's the easiest to jump on and play together with friends. I live on the other side of the world yet I can jump online and play 14-15 player games easily, and my router is pretty stupid.

@RoaDiE

I agree with everything you said 100%, it wasn't fair what HB did. My problem was what happened to TMA's reputation because of the TMA veterans not liking TMX, that's what bothered me the most. It doesn't sit well with me at all thinking people think TMA is anti-TMX because of the vets, even though I proudly show the banner of us in the special thanks, and have the youtube channel. What happened with TMX is the vets were picking the game apart over things that on the surface to any laymen seem like minor problems e.g. dodging or homing missiles, and thinking you guys are laughable and rediculously petty with your complaints; and so you guys would defend yourselves and your views (rightly), but then come across as condescending to the new people, elitist even, to anyone that doesn't agree with you. It's the damage that was done to TMA's reputation that I have issue with. Intelligent discussion is fine, and welcomed; everything else, no thanks.

You're 100% right HB really doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to TM, he doesn't have that knowledge past surface level that you, me, and a lot of people have, which comes from years of playtime (and what he doesn't understand is you had all this knowledge going in to TMX which is why you were able to dismiss it so fast; he doesn't have any of that). What HB doesn't understand (and a lot of TMX fans) is those things you were nit-picking over were 'major' hurdles to your ability to like the game, but they were just minor issues to me and most other people (so we love the game). You guys keep feeling misunderstood, and the TMX supporters just feel like you're attacking the game unjustly and over petty hypocritical things; and the fighting just repeats. You don't like ramming! etc. Some people don't like TM2, some don't like TMB, so be it I really don't care.

I roll my eyes at most things HB says concerning TM (e.g. he has no clue about Spectre in TM2pc), but it's just his ill-informed opinion based on his limited playtime; I don't feel a constant need to belittle him or correct him. I don't even understand why he picks the fights he does; he's an anomaly. I want intelligent discussion to remain and unfortunately the fact certain TMX supporters can't do that, means you guys get frustrated, and you end up doing the 'special olympics' on brawl. You are all better than that. I guess the fact HB can't get past is that you guys barely played TMX for a couple weeks, which is a lot less time than he played TMBO, and you guys claim to know everything that's wrong with TMX, so he's doing the exact same thing back to you with TMBO (difference being you know everything about TMBO; far surpassing his limited knowledge). He just felt you were all hypocrites to bash TMX with such limited playtime, so he was bashing TMBO back with his limited playtime. It's stupid, it's all stupid and childish and I want it to stop. If you were all playing TM2pc or TMHO instead he'd just be bashing that instead.

I always laughed at some of the stuff HB says, I never took it seriously. But what I do take seriously is TMA's reputation going down the drain. I'm sorry you have to leave over this, but it seems like you're all leaving together and people are not making individual decisions, or offering any other solutions besides banning HB. Banning him might be great for you guys, but how does that fix the perception that TMA is anti-TMX because of you guys? The damage is done. Walking out is the easy option. Banned or not, I still would have done the original topic.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/21/13 at 00:37:23
@NightShade

If you get lynched, I get lynched. You did tell me about HB but not in such a way that something really had to be done, if you felt strongly enough that it was the right thing to do then I feel you would have done it with or without my blessing. But that's water under the bridge now, if you want to ban him be my guest. I haven't read a single thing HB has posted on brawl for years so I'm not the one to make any punishments based on his behaviour. But I take responsibility for not feeling like you could ban him because he was my friend or something, but that is clear now; admins can ban anyone they see fit if they're breaking rules or disrupting the site (assuming there is anyone left after this).

@Manta_Ray

This might be a good time to bring back Twisted Metal Stadium!

@Luis

Right, so why did no one ban him?

@The_Dizaster_Child

You're referring to Magnum? I told HB to stop those personal attacks after Roadie informed me, then he went and did it again the next day (he just can't help himself, he knows it's wrong; he apologises to me the next day for it). That was probably the final nail in Brawl's coffin. His defense was that it wasn't personal and was just in the nature of the brawl and that magnum was part of that clique and attacked him first mob-style. HB does feel genuinely bad about that and he should apologise. Normally it would be a ban-worthy offense (insulting admins) but it was in a brawl so it was a gray area, which I have now cleared up. Sorry Mags, I know you're a good guy. At least someone still respects you.

@XIZOR

More endless assumptions, when will it end? Me & Night discussed this, that if we were going to ban brawling (the bad kind that gets personal), we might aswell rename Brawl to remove any futher confusion (e.g. No Brawling but it's still called Brawl on the wall?). The sticky topics that disappeared were not due to the new rules or moderation of any kind but a bug in the YABB system that nukes sticky topics for a forum if you rename it (I tried to restore the topics but it didn't work; but I still have them in backups for 2.0). The name change was a direct response to the problems on brawl, which stemmed from the lack of rules and all the TMX hate.

TMA is unacceptable because of HB? Your face must be red with all the slaps you've been receiving. So you've just been sticking around all this time for the chance to finally get even and tell me all your endless assumptions and complaints about everything I did wrong? Well I hope you're happy now. Apparently you aren't very forgiving people, no understanding to my position, and have next to no loyalty to this place; just couldn't wait to watch the place crumble with your walkout. Real mature.

At no point has anyone here even given me an ultimatum that it's HB or us, it's just you're all leaving. No one replying in this post has said if HB goes we'll stay, everyone seems very final in their decision to go. Then you ask me, why is HB still here now? As I've said over and over, and you don't seem to be very understanding, is that I don't read brawl ever, so I don't know what HB is up to; it's all heresay. BUT, if the admins that do frequent brawl want him gone for the benefit of the site, they can easily ban him; always could. HB can then come crying to me, I'd support him as a friend but I'd accept the decision; he'd gone too far once to often.

What puzzles me (and again due to my ignorance of not reading brawl) is that HB used to be popular, he's been a staple part of TMA for over a decade, and NOW you can't take him anymore? Based on what, all your petty fights over TMX and now other topics for the last year? Or is it more personal than that? See, I just don't know. So he ruins every topic because he hates you guys, ok that is really douchey and I hope it's not true. What do you want me to do about it? I don't read or moderate brawl, why should I be expected to? I can't do everything.

@Archminion

Congrats on being one of the few to understand my post. HB has always been a big part of brawl's culture, and if people suddenly don't like him anymore then it's just part of brawl, right? Call him names, brawl, challenge each other to 1v1's, whatever. He's not hacking the site or breaking any rules, he's just annoying people, right? I think the problem is HB used to be friends with most people on brawl outside of TMA, they'd play games together, but then they turned on him and now he's making their life hell, making them all his personal enemies. But even still, it didn't sound like he was doing anything more than just making himself more unpopular. If he keeps doing that then the admins can suspend him or more, but doesn't sound like it'll matter since everyone is leaving. I expected the least people could do was give the new rules a chance; sadly I was mistaken.

@XIZOR

Why are you always playing the victim card that I don't care about you or brawl? Your replies showcase your severe victim mentality. The extra spam on brawl over TT is obviously because the mods on brawl are way less active, but you take that as me not caring. It wasn't personal. I instated a ghost mod to take care of brawl spam before I even did this topic, before I knew everyone would be pissed at everything, and you give me shit still. It's not my fault the brawl mods don't deal with spam as vigilantly as they do on the TWISTED METAL FORUM OF THIS SITE. You are insufferable, really. You have a deep rooted problem with me, and it's really unhealthy. All these little jabs at me is getting really old, it started last year and now it's going full force.

Everything is about me not caring for this place and everything was better on old TMA, well of course it was. That was a forum system I made myself from the ground up, spammers didn't know how to spam on it. Yabb is open source so any tom dick & harry can spam on it. It wasn't bad in the beginning because like all spam bots it takes them time to learn what sites they can work on, but once they get a hook they just increase the spam until it gets rediculous, and sadly this has happened here. The only solution is to turn off registrations and delete all the spam accounts, but do you really think I have time for that? Don't you think my time is better spent elsewhere? As you said Night setup this place, so why are you guys not harder on him? He could have been managing everything. Be fair, don't dump everything on me as not caring. I always considered this place Night's and he could run it as he sees fit, but apparently all this time it was my responsibility and I didn't fix the problems brewing back 2 years. I wasn't even here, he could have banned HB or setup new rules; it didn't have to fall on me.

@DeathStrikesBack

Right, Xizor has no idea how time consuming dealing with the spam is. Yabb sucks balls, but Night didn't know that when he got it. 2.0 will be spam free, forever, because it'll be propriety technology that spammers will not know how to exploit. It's unfortunate no one will be around to see and enjoy it. In the meantime Night did say something about how he thinks he figured out how to delete spam accounts in batch. If we ban Russia then we lost at least 1 real poster, and some in Brazil. China, India, Vietnam, really doubt we have anyone from there. Thanks for everything you have done over the years, I remember your name from way back when it was just DSB.

@Surgeon

We aren't removing brawl, just renaming it, and bringing back the old rules. If people take brawls too far they're gonna get banned, simple as that. If people rail-road topics just to be dicks, they're gonna get suspended. These new rules are just removing the gray area for mods & admins. I'm not 100% killing the name, it may return here or on 2.0 down the road, but for now we just need to clean up the shit going on. I respect brawl has held the community together, physically, a place to post about other stuff and keep together between games, but the founding reason you stick around has to be because we're all TM fans. Love some, hate some, that's our common bond, that's why we stay.

Point is, this isn't a Horse Fucking Fansite (as much as you might like doing that), but if you did frequent such a fansite, it's for the horse fucking, right? Or is it to find other common interests with your fellow horse fuckers? Besides, there isn't any downtime for horse fucking (except when there isn't enough to fuck because they're putting them in hamburgers & sausages as beef supplements).

@The_Truth

Great, another running joke has begun. PG-TMA, more assumptions.

@Kilrahi

Don't know anything about a reply by you being deleted unless it said something that would risk breaking the fabric of time & space. So we gonna keep this PG-TMA joke going, like HB slandered you guys with lies? Can't wait to read your TMX review (was this the post you were talking about?), I skimmed down to see you gave it a D, so I'm not sure if I should give it much more time than that. You don't like the game, I knew that already.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/21/13 at 01:17:40

Mortimer wrote on 03/21/13 at 00:37:23:
@NightShade

@Kilrahi

Don't know anything about a reply by you being deleted unless it said something that would risk breaking the fabric of time & space. So we gonna keep this PG-TMA joke going, like HB slandered you guys with lies? Can't wait to read your TMX review (was this the post you were talking about?), I skimmed down to see you gave it a D, so I'm not sure if I should give it much more time than that. You don't like the game, I knew that already.


Well, I don't mean to slander on the TM PG thing.  So I'll try to avoid it.  Also, I'm not leaving 'cause of your new rules.  It's more of a state of the franchise thing.

I don't think you should read the review.  We have a fundamental philosophy difference you and I.  I can never rate a game high that has so many problems just turning on.  


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by j0k3r428 on 03/21/13 at 14:28:59
Mort + TMA,

I signed up here back.... wow over a year ago (time flies!), and quit about a month or two after because of the negative vibe that I was receiving for liking the new game and disagreeing with the homing aspects.  Well the past is the past... but I really do appreciate this kind of response Mort.  I admit to coming back and reading some posts now and again, because sometimes real info is posted about Twisted Metal that only die hard fans would really care about.  I have remade/reactivated my account because I like the direction TMA is going in and it is something I'd like to be a part of.  Good luck to the start of something fresh and can't wait for TMA 2.0!  

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoaDiE on 03/21/13 at 16:38:46

Mortimer wrote on 03/21/13 at 00:23:29:

@RoaDiE

I agree with everything you said 100%, it wasn't fair what HB did. My problem was what happened to TMA's reputation because of the TMA veterans not liking TMX, that's what bothered me the most. It doesn't sit well with me at all thinking people think TMA is anti-TMX because of the vets, even though I proudly show the banner of us in the special thanks, and have the youtube channel. What happened with TMX is the vets were picking the game apart over things that on the surface to any laymen seem like minor problems e.g. dodging or homing missiles, and thinking you guys are laughable and rediculously petty with your complaints; and so you guys would defend yourselves and your views (rightly), but then come across as condescending to the new people, elitist even, to anyone that doesn't agree with you. It's the damage that was done to TMA's reputation that I have issue with. Intelligent discussion is fine, and welcomed; everything else, no thanks.

You're 100% right HB really doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to TM, he doesn't have that knowledge past surface level that you, me, and a lot of people have, which comes from years of playtime (and what he doesn't understand is you had all this knowledge going in to TMX which is why you were able to dismiss it so fast; he doesn't have any of that). What HB doesn't understand (and a lot of TMX fans) is those things you were nit-picking over were 'major' hurdles to your ability to like the game, but they were just minor issues to me and most other people (so we love the game). You guys keep feeling misunderstood, and the TMX supporters just feel like you're attacking the game unjustly and over petty hypocritical things; and the fighting just repeats. You don't like ramming! etc. Some people don't like TM2, some don't like TMB, so be it I really don't care.

I roll my eyes at most things HB says concerning TM (e.g. he has no clue about Spectre in TM2pc), but it's just his ill-informed opinion based on his limited playtime; I don't feel a constant need to belittle him or correct him. I don't even understand why he picks the fights he does; he's an anomaly. I want intelligent discussion to remain and unfortunately the fact certain TMX supporters can't do that, means you guys get frustrated, and you end up doing the 'special olympics' on brawl. You are all better than that.[b] I guess the fact HB can't get past is that you guys barely played TMX for a couple weeks, which is a lot less time than he played TMBO, and you guys claim to know everything that's wrong with TMX, so he's doing the exact same thing back to you with TMBO (difference being you know everything about TMBO; far surpassing his limited knowledge). He just felt you were all hypocrites to bash TMX with such limited playtime, so he was bashing TMBO back with his limited playtime.
It's stupid, it's all stupid and childish and I want it to stop. If you were all playing TM2pc or TMHO instead he'd just be bashing that instead.

I always laughed at some of the stuff HB says, I never took it seriously. But what I do take seriously is TMA's reputation going down the drain. I'm sorry you have to leave over this, but it seems like you're all leaving together and people are not making individual decisions, or offering any other solutions besides banning HB. Banning him might be great for you guys, but how does that fix the perception that TMA is anti-TMX because of you guys? The damage is done. Walking out is the easy option. Banned or not, I still would have done the original topic.[/b]


(Im sure you are well aware of the difference im about to illustrate, and what he never seemed to understand. or others that is.)

The difference between us dismissing TMX in 2012 after a short period of time gameplay wise and hellbent after a short period of time in TMBO... is that:

Back in 2002, at TMBO launch, NO ONE AT TMA had a decade of TM online games under their belt.

In 2012? Tons of vets had essentially earned PHD's in the series and dissected every single morsel of TM gameplay mechanics/depth knowledge up to TMX's demo launch.

Within 30 seconds of playing the demo I had made two observations:

Homings were undodgeable. Outlaw special undodgeable.

Within thirty seconds of the demo I could instantly tell.

So just playing for 30 seconds was I correct about those two statements? Yes I was. I knew what to look for.

So HB having three weeks of TMBO experience, isn't a fair comparison to my 2 months TMX experience (not 3 weeks but still short yes), considering in 2002 no one knew anything about anything! In 2012, I know what I am looking for and how the gameplay works. I might not know of the balance issues with some cars in TMX (that comes with time!), but I know what im looking at in terms of simple gameplay (dodging, weapon speed, how that affects gameplay, etc). As you said, that comes with time. Time I had accrued. TMX isnt some radically different game, its just a slightly tweaked version of the same car combat game formula. I simply plug in the numbers and my answers come up, and they came up correct.

This is why people kept saying "how can you tell dodging is lacking" after a single day, and i kept telling them "because I know due to experience". Its fair they don't get it at first, but what bothered me was the complete lack of willingness to even attempt to see or understand how their points made no sense whatsoever. It was complete contempt for logic.

If someone thinks dodging is running behind a building to block a missile, they need to sit the hell down, read a post, and learn something.

To me this a problem inherent of the next generation; "I have an opinion just like everyone else and no one is wrong!".

Sorry, you're either right or wrong on things of factual nature.

Missiles are 2-3 times faster in TMX than any TM game before. Fact. Not opinion.

Running behind cover is not dodging. It is called using cover, and it's been in every TM game before. Fact. Not an opinion.

That offended people, and they felt it was elitest. Jesus christ. So help me god if my Microbiology professor corrects me on what is a neutrophil and what is a macrophage. The only ones with egos were the ones who felt hurt by any information delivery. I made it as nice and polite as possible. But people can't take discussion without getting their egos bruised.

I even believe Jaffe himself is a bit guilty of this, I had nothing against the man, and i was eager to lay out how TMX gameplay mechanics are downgraded. Not my fault he can dish out criticism but not take it (and seriously, some of the most well constructed criticism ever). Its not elitest in the slightest.

This whole "seeing information/knowledge as elitism" imo is a big problem when the only real vets alive and kicking in 2012 can be numbered on a single fucking hand (and if you chopped off ur thumb) and are outnumbered by 2012 fresh recruits. So you stick out like a sore thumb. The facts only get worse when you have pretenders who think they know wtf they are talking about, spewing nonesense.... ahem HB.

Is it any coincidence that the vast majority of the folks thinking we were being disrespectful to Jaffe are the ones who never really played TM games in the past?

....

Yea. Not a coincidence. They just didnt know wtf we were talking about. As you said, these concepts sounded like minor greivances to them.

Funny enough a lot of these same grievances came out their mouths later on down road in months time. We just saw it within 30 seconds is all.

As far as damage to TMA's rep as a result. I am not sure it can ever be repaired. When you have people who are unwilling to listen and just assume... what can you do?

At one point I even tried to repair things with Gamefaqs when they were hating on this website for imaginary reasons! I didn't have to jump over there and defend us, but I did. Even when my own website turned against me!

Leaving is a result of members turning on one another, and no one doing anything to stop it and the misinformation spreading.

Hell I was told I was worse than Blair, because I said I was disappointed and wondered if Jaffe even read TMA... because I couldn't get Jaffe's attention on twitter, spamming him for weeks in regards to glitches/things to patch. After day 2, I had amassed an entire laundry list of small things that needed fixes (axel weapon jam, host settings reset).

Yea that was such a horrible thing for me to say, that i wondered if he read TMA because i was getting the silent treatment while trying to help fix bugs. This website went overboard on the witch-hunt, and then when the dust settled we are blamed for everything.

Enough... :(

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Ripzsaur on 03/21/13 at 19:27:02
Even with such a low post count like I have, I have still been on this site since 2008. I have jumped between boards, mingling everywhere, and above all just enjoying what the community had to offer, both good and bad. TMA was a great place for the community to come together and talk, regardless if it was about random things in BotW or TM related things in TT... It all came together as the community continued to build. Yes, things have gotten out of hand before, but a lot of those things could have been fixed in ways other than what it has came to now. I personally enjoyed BotW for what it was, and I appreciated the, "don't give a fuck," atmosphere that TMA gave off. May it be that a madhouse becomes the result of it, it really boils down to what we all liked it for... it was fun. We gain enjoyment from having conversations, or even disagreements, about things we enjoy. When things get out of hand, control them individually instead of restricting the entire community, especially when the entire community isn't the problem.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm by no means on the fuck moderation bandwagon, I just believe that destroying BotW, and therefore a part of what we love from the site, is too far. TMA isn't a place for someone easily offended and I've always loved that. TMA is unlike any other forum I've ventured to over the years, and the things allowed here are what makes it unique. It sets itself apart, and it feels like with the changes, it will just make the site a wrinkled shell of what it used to be. Just announcing the changes made several members state their departure. I hate to see a community like this die out. Everyone here has played together, and all of us have had conversations together. Rather it's debating, arguing, comparing or brawling... We all worked together to form what this site has made up. I know to many it may seem like a simple moderation and restoration of authority, but it's much more than that. Deal with simple problems by themselves. Isolate and execute things that disturb the community. If a single person was part of a town, but one day decided to disrupt everything and mess up the order of things... Would the government change the laws in place to control the likes of one person? Not in the ideal society they wouldn't. They would put the person in prison. The rules put in place shouldn't be, "no attacks, no brawls, be nice to everyone." It should be what the community is made to be. It may have started out as a TM community, but it has became more. I've made friends on here, I've played games with the people on here and my time with FA_Q was fun. We all have had times here we've enjoyed, and now we're dropping members like flies, all because of a simple change that is being established. This isn't an attack, more like a vote. The site shouldn't be heavily moderated. Deal with single problems, not punish the community for individuals. Ban them. Get new admins if need be.

Another thing is about the complaints of TMX. I understand, everyone here loved Jaffe before TMX. We all thought he was the best, but we can all safely say he has made plenty of mistakes over the course of time since then. He ignored the cries of help from the dying TM community to a degree, and that really shows something about you when you ignore your brain child as it crumbles beneath you. I still respect Jaffe for what he has done, and I think a lot do, but I do not support what he has done with TMX. I like TMX to a degree, but it is not what I wanted for over a decade. I'm still waiting for that next best sequel to follow up TMB, and knowing I might not ever see that sequel is depressing.  I do believe however, that the veterans and anyone has the right to nitpick any problem they have with the game. I don't support constant slandering for opinions that are different from ones own, because opinions are different between everyone and people are entitled to them. If Jaffe is doing things wrong involving TM, then people should be able to talk about how they feel about it when it is affecting TM. We are a TM fansite after all aren't we? Fanboys worship everything that is produced. We aren't fanboys. We like what we like, and we do that with evaluation. Everyone's opinion is entitled, and just because Jaffe saw only the negatives being spoken is not on the hands of the entire community. People didn't like the game, and they talked about it. That is no crime. It is part of the game we enjoyed, and if Jaffe got upset about it instead of trying to fix it that isn't TMA's fault. People here deserve to be able to say what they want to say, but again I don't believe in constant slandering in others and Jaffe for mistakes. Say your opinion and talk about it, but don't result to constant bashing and bringing up topics from before. If someone talks bad about TM:B in one thread, leave it in that thread. Antagonizing people does not make a community. Antagonizing can go on in the BotW thread if necessary. If need be, but a stickied thread in the BotW section informing newcomers of what BotW is if a concern is newbies to the site being scared away. That should help at least a little.

This site was for our opinions and our interest of a series to be brought together and it made this. The fact that this one common interest evolved into all the topics and things we have here is wonderful. You can't successfully kill cancer by using medicine that kills everything around it, so how can you kill the community's cancer equivalent with a method that destroys the community?

You can't. So this isn't the correct way to handle things.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrgrn on 03/21/13 at 21:04:58
Thank you for the reply Mort.

Let me just address some things you stated though:

On TMHO: I still like the game for what it is. I abandoned it because of three things.

1. TMA didn't really play TMHO anymore. I didn't like the remaining community. SEE: Sheonite

2. I was introduced to TM2PC

3. I preferred the TM2PC community.

I don't feel like I was a poser because I still liked the game, I just learned that I liked TM2PC a lot more, but hopefully that clears things up. I was aware I wasn't the best TM2PC player, but I still aimed to have as much fun as possible, even if that meant using HH, almost exclusively.

ON TMX: Again, I enjoyed it for what it was, but it didn't drive me to sit in front of my TV for 30 minutes trying to get into a game. I played copious amounts offline and was one of the first TMAers to get Warthog. Yes it was a lot like TMHO, yes I enjoyed TMHO, but it didn't grab me like TM2PC or TMBO did and that is why I didn't personally enjoy it.

ON Roadie: I was never aware he didn't like me. Upon asking him he said there was a brief time, but he never outwardly was mean to me in the slightest. Always helpful with TM2PC hints and tips. A year and a half ago, I had a bad attitude when I lost TMBO games, and we talked about it and it hasn't been an issue since. If you say that you had no problems with me, then I'll take your word and stand corrected. The rumours that you didn't play with me because I was there, and that you didn't like me were through the grapevine. Assumptions are a poison I suppose.

"and I know you're no stranger to crazy" I hope that's just a playful jab and not an attack on my person, or else, I don't know what you mean.

On the BOTW Issue: The thing I was trying to define was that HB took it too far. Of all the years of personal attacks between each other on BOTW, it's just that HB took it too far. He ruined every thread that he posted in with his attitude and personal attacks. Threads that had nothing to do with him or anything near that subject. No he didn't hack TMA or do anything illegal, but starting about a year ago, he just became too much.

EDIT: And I met Spyda in TMA chat, actually.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/21/13 at 23:42:03
Actually, I can't remember making any snide remarks just to be an asshole. If I did, it surely had to have been the result of one of the noobs getting uppity over a differing opinion. Which yes, there were a LOT of noobs who acted that way. On a personal level, my main issue with the game was just the core of it. Sitting, waiting for over an hour (the average wait time for me) to get into a lobby, only to get kicked right before it started, or right after. Sitting in a lobby with a sleeping host. Just these aggravating things before you even got to playing the game online. And mind you, at the time, I had the best ISP in town, one of the best routers available, and STILL had connectivity issues. I'm not saying that everyone had these problems, but there were definitely enough people having them to where it should have been priority number one. The fact that other posters on here were outright calling us liars was especially agitating.

There also seems to be a lot of misconception about what's going on around here. While yes, there are a large number of us who called Brawl home, that doesn't take away from the fact that we're all here because of Twisted Metal. We still love the series and haven't forgotten that that's why we're friends now. But it's like you said, after a while, the original topics dry up and get talked to death and we find other avenues for discussion. While yes, this site is a TM fan site, the power of BotW simply can't be denied. I know it's a tough grind over there. I was thoroughly ripped apart over on the original site (thank you HB, 7, and Xizor), but I toughed it out, took my licks, and became a tried and true member of the community. In fact, I can't remember any other users since me that have gotten that treatment, so in essence, Brawl has actually become more tame than it was in it's hayday. The only posters to be bashed into exile were genuine fucktards who did nothing to add to the community (Heartbreak, for example, threatening me when I called her out on her bullshit and lies). In all reality, what you're attempting to get rid of is already gone. The main focus seems to be on the tiff with Hellbent versus the community, which you've heard enough about.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/22/13 at 01:02:07
It's sad that those who've left haven't even given the new rule a chance as far as General Discussion is concerned.

The rule change was announced that would curb the personal attacks (something you guys claim HB is guilty of) and some long time posters just upped and went.

Maybe deep down those guys have needed that break for a while and just needed a reason?

I know if I felt as passionate about something I'd not walk out the door without even given some proposed changes one chance.

I was only ready to leave TMA because I felt there genuinely was nothing more I could do for TT, it seemed like a lost cause to me.

Now I'll probably be told to back off since I know nothing of Brawl but then if we think about it no one here knows how the newly named board will continue?

I don't see why there will be any difference other than the absence of the personal attacks and thread derailing that you dislike?


EDIT: I'm expecting Xizor to chime in again at this point and tell me it's not my fight and I just don't get 'it'.
But please explain it to me?
I want to understand?

Tell what exactly is the problem with a name change of your favourite forum and the potential that the person you hate most can no longer damage or derail your threads?

(and Nightshade's already said that they may keep the Brawl name if it means that much?)

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 03/22/13 at 07:27:25
Since I read what it was that I said that set Hellbent off.

"Can we please have this fucking match get done? Take the 20 fucking minutes to play Hellbent. If you really don't care, just log in, fuck it all up, stay idle or whatever, say you played, win or lose and be done with it.

It's not that we are "afraid" to nuke Hellbent. WTF is the point honestly when there are litterally dozens of spambots making new accounts by the day? Besides the fact, look at our newest poster "The Truth." Why ban Hellbent when it holds no water? He can make a new account just as easily as some other posters who have left and come back.

Besides....this Brawl is pretty old school TMA anyway.

"A lot of it has to do with the group back then.  I was 22 and one of the oldest on the forum.  Most of them, HB included I think, were a bunch of shallow teenagers.

A lot of them didn't like him then either, but you had to be quiet about it.  If you didn't kiss the mods back then you got slapped with belt after belt of horrible crap, posts were deleted or rewritten, and sometimes you were out and out banned.

Good times."

Yea. Those were the days Kil."

Quoting off Kilrahi.

Ya know, kinda reading that agian I can see now how he would take that the wrong way. I really meant the days where we could all be jackasses, and it just didn't get this bad. But if that is an "attack 1st" statement, then I would think he'd have a little more tougher skin.I said it in a parenting sort of way like "jeez a weez ahh plweezy" kind of way. So as far as I'm concerned, I didn't really see that as an attack really, but then go and spew shit about my kids and family that have nothing to do with this? Alot of people here took offence to that more than I freaking did.  

And if you were to look for the aftermath of that, I resepcted TMA enough not to Brawl with him, or take it to personally because that's what a supposive "good Admin" does. I got enough fucking drama in my real life, and I just don't need it anywhere on the net. I've also seen what has happened to those who have gotten personally involved, and Xizor and Scold are prime examples.

So it's evidently apparent that my "nutrality" is detrimental to TMA in a way. It doesn't seem that I can be an effective Admin if I can't make the tough decisions on if to ban people when I belive they could've worked it out.

Also the reason why I didn't ban Hellbent? Here is your answer. I didn't want the backlash it would cause now, or somewhere else down the road. I didn't want to be the one who forever would've been known "YOU BANNED HELLBENT!!!" be it litteraly him, or someone else. It's just not worth the problem it could've caused. And if he wanted to be right back, he'd do so instantly anyway as I said in the statement above. People asked me to ban him. I hovered over that button BEFORE he insulted my family. So call me a pussy, and again, inneffective. I'll play the Jesus here and carry that cross as to why TMA has split.    

I also want you to know too Mort, I never liked any disrtespect to you, nor said anything bad about you. Never did I feel I was owed 2.0. I will toataly take the blame for never contacting you about anything because I'm never on AIM. I'll be the bad guy for that. I basicly see you as being busy and obviously can't talk about what your doing. Kinda like you with Jaffe here. I can see that position you were in, and I've even said before to people we just don't know. Besides, I'd go to Nightshade 1st and foremost anyway.  

And a side note to Nightshade as well. Don't you dare think that I'm upset or something. Just speaking my mind. Something I should've done awhile ago, and apologize for letting that shit go again. I am busy in my life too, and kind of skim the boards as it is. I don't think it was fair to the other members to let that happen.

So that's that.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by James P7 on 03/22/13 at 08:20:24
Thanks Mort. I will IM you on AIM in a few days. I will be at PAX East this weekend so its going to be a nice weekend for me for a change. I need a break from life, even if it is just a few days. It hasn't been kind to me lately. My parents were generous enough to make this a nice gift for me.

To be honest, I am afraid to even say anything on this thread anymore. Ill post this last time and move on from this particular subject, because frankly, I am tired of talking\reading about it, and I do not want to start any more arguments. So this will be the last time I post anything on this thread after this reply. There was a lot of misuse over the fact that "no one was watching" attitude and things got out of hand. Both for defending Mort\TMA and then TMX. Those issues should have been dealt with better and more efficiently than it was by the admins. The community got a little too comfortable saying anything they felt like saying or degrading, and feeling it had no consequences and things got out of hand and of course that led to where we are now. In old TMA as I remember it, there would have been no tolerance for that behavior and things would have been set straight. I am speaking about all of us mind you. Me, HB, and everyone involved.

Like I said, I love the new TM as much as I love the other TM games, but in its own way. Each TM had their strong points, unique features, and flaws. TMX was no different, neither was TMB, TM1 or TM2. I think the problem with the community, despite that we are all stubborn morons that cannot drop any subject (myself included without a doubt), but a lot of us were too one-sided to see any positives in the new game. All they saw were the negatives and couldnt get past it. It must have been difficult for some to admit it too. And if every post at the time of release wasn't about how people hated the game, I would have probably stayed out of those arguments. Ill leave that alone for now.

And yes, I do still support the TMX game 200%, as I do the other TM games, and the TMA community for what it REALLY stands for. Never stopped and never will. I think when TMA 2.0 comes out, hope people may actually come back, getting the nostalgic feeling most of us have been craving, and eventually restore the site to its former glory. And I will be here to see that. I also look forward to talking to the community again and discuss Twisted Metal, in the future.





Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Reaper on 03/22/13 at 12:38:31
The hostile vibe of the site has me checking in about once every month and a half. I don't have anything to say about either side, but the bickering made it difficult to come and just read posts.

I'll keep on coming to TMA. The changes said to be made has me a little worried, but in the end this is your baby, Mort. Whatever you do decide to do, I will still come here for any information TM related.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mr.SLaM on 03/22/13 at 16:31:35
Um does that entire page of spam on Brawl have anything to do with this? I have never seen it this bad before.
Can someone who was ticked off send that wave of just...look for yourself.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mosh on 03/22/13 at 18:19:23

Mr.SLaM wrote on 03/22/13 at 16:31:35:
Um does that entire page of spam on Brawl have anything to do with this? I have never seen it this bad before.
Can someone who was ticked off send that wave of just...look for yourself.


spam bots have been here for awhile and accumulated a few thousand accounts to spam on. admins can delete posts and accounts as they come but it would take 1,000 admins to clear them all using this board. Just something that will have to be tolerated until TMA 2.0. Not sure why there has been more spam as of late. I could see how someone would connect it with the 'state of the alliance address', but pretty sure that's just a coincidence.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by GrindhouseCinema on 03/23/13 at 01:40:48
.... I picked a strange time to visit the website again, didn't I?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/23/13 at 01:47:12
“Again, more exaggerated assumptions (making an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'). You can be critical, but do it with one iotta of respect for what you're being critical of, in respect to the fact that this is a TM fansite supported by the very people you are criticizing not making X or Y feature perfectly to your liking. On old TMA that's why we had TMBO General and TM2pc General, if you don't like one or the other then keep the fuck away from the board you don't like the TM for (same for TMSB and TMHO). If you got too heated you were asked to politely take it to brawl, or you were put on moderation, or set a reply limit, or just had your replies deleted. When someone was found out to be a TM3/4 fan they were shown the door. But you could still criticize any TM game on TT if you did it with some respect, without starting massive fights & brawls. That's the root of my entire post. Sadly because there are so many veterans here that did not like TMX, and never had anything good to say about it, it made the site come across as anti-TMX to the point fans were leaving with the wrong impressions, and the TMX fans always felt like they had to defend the game (completely normal reactions).

What I object to is the fact these fights got so bad even a year later people have not got over it, the bad blood is still there. People acting like children, and I have to be the parent and try and break it up. Bottom line is people around here have lots of personal beefs, and those cloud most peoples judgment. All I'm trying to do is stop this shit once and for all. My allegiances are for Twisted Metal, and this community. Stricter moderation will help stop these problems from repeating again, but no one is giving it a chance and taking it all wrong. It has nothing to do with whether you can be critical of TM's or not. This is what the new rules are for, people need to criticise with respect, and debate with respect, this goes for both sides. If you're going to cross the line defending or attacking TMX then you'll get suspended, so problem solved.

Generally speaking people get over things fast and don't need to keep beating a dead horse; if you don't like TMX fine so be it just don't keep leaving snide remarks about the game on TT that rile up the strongest supporters. But also those guys should not be so defensive and just let the comments die, and not spark into another endless fight. People are jumping to huge conclusions that they can no longer be critical of TM's, and that everything will be PG-rated. If that's what you took out of my original post, then I'd hope to God you are never my lawyer.”

I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that but none of that has to do with me, nor is it my problem. If you remember, I’m the one who didn’t like the new game, but chose to move on so directing all that at me is sort of pointless even though you’re probably just talking in general. People like Kirahi that can’t get over not liking TMX are a problem that should be dealt with, but again, I’m not part of that problem. I respect TMA and the community of people who only want to talk about it on TT enough to stay out of it. I even tried to help clean up the TT boards while I was a Moderator and encouraged Arch on many occasions to take action if he felt it was necessary.

Brawl being toned down is something I don’t agree with though. We can’t act out and be dickheads on Brawl if we want now? I mean, its not like all we do over there is fight (aside from battling HB at every turn) but we do like to bust each other balls and bash new posters that act like faggots. It’s not even being mean for the sake of being mean just because we’ve been here so long, but that is just part of the tradition of Brawl.

All of the veteran crew that is still around all got our shit pushed in when we came here, especially on BOTW. I sure as hell did, but that was part of the fun and it weeds out the people who aren’t cool and don’t get it. It’s this unique mentality that has always set this site apart from every other fan site on the internet. TMA was trolling long before trolling was cool. But, you’ve never been one to post on Brawl and you clearly don’t know what its like these days and that’s fine, but you have to understand why the new PG rules and trying to change the tone of the whole site instead of just TT is unacceptable to many of us.

“So you IM'd me once and said "hi" and I didn't say anything?”

Actually it was more than once and too many times to even remember over the course of the last decade. And it wasn’t just me. There are tons of people who’ve reached out to you over the years only to be completely ignored. I understand you have a life and you have quite a few friends from TMA already and can’t properly get to know everyone at the site but you would think some of the veterans would at least be worth your time. I’m not even butt-hurt over the fact that you’ve never taken the time to speak to me, because you’ve just always been that way, but more about how you only choose to care about TMA, the website, and the community, when its convenient for you. How long did it take you to put your foot down on TT? Yeah...a year.

“I wasn't saying people had to play TMBO or TM2pc solid every 5 years between a new TM, but maybe make an effort once a month?”

We were. My crew and others who enjoyed the old titles had threads up on TT trying to help people get set up to play TM2PC and TMBO. Like I said before, we we’re doing that during the down time. Not you. But you wouldn’t know this because you weren’t around. Who’s making assumptions now?

“What puzzles me (and again due to my ignorance of not reading brawl) is that HB used to be popular, he's been a staple part of TMA for over a decade, and NOW you can't take him anymore? Based on what, all your petty fights over TMX and now other topics for the last year? Or is it more personal than that? See, I just don't know. So he ruins every topic because he hates you guys, ok that is really douchey and I hope it's not true.

At no point has anyone here even given me an ultimatum that it's HB or us, it's just you're all leaving. No one replying in this post has said if HB goes we'll stay, everyone seems very final in their decision to go. Then you ask me, why is HB still here now?

So he ruins every topic because he hates you guys, ok that is really douchey and I hope it's not true. What do you want me to do about it? I don't read or moderate brawl, why should I be expected to? I can't do everything.”

It is true. I could write you a fucking e-novella including links to his unbelievable replies giving you a thousand and one reasons why he should be banned. I could go get 10-20 more people to reply and tell you the same thing but it wouldn’t really matter would it?

HB has always been a staple of TMA and I think that is part of the problem everyone has with just letting him go. Let me give you a very very short version of HBs decent into madness. When we all first came to the temp site we all got along just fine. Everyone. Even with HB. We all played tons of games together and posted on Brawl and TT. But I’m telling you, something about him changed a couple years ago and it was just a problem that grew and grew. He was condescending, rude, hateful, and all around unpleasant on TMA to literally everyone.

We tried to take care of the problem ourselves, believe me. I didn’t want to ask for a ban because we thought that eventually he would realize that he was being a huge douche and we all just wanted to get back to normal and be friends. But its like trolling and hating us was now going to be what the Hellbent persona was all about moving forward and clearly it was not going to change. I considered the guy a friend myself for many years. We used to play tons of games together and chat on AIM and I was literally the last person in our clique to completely give up on him. Just as recent as three months ago I tried to invite him to play some Halo 4 with us, despite everyone else not wanting him there, but it did no good. Within a day we were all sick of him and given his behavior over the last month on TMA I’ve cut all contact.

I know for a fact that Nightshade has told you how much of a problem HB has been for a while now. Going back at least a couple years. I also know Roadie talks to you on a pretty regular basis and he has shown you and told you in great detail how bad HB has gotten and you still do nothing. Just because you don’t read Brawl doesn’t mean you can claim ignorance. Half the problem is that you seem to mostly take HBs side of the story as fact for what really goes on; that we are just picking on him for no reason and he doesn’t understand why. Personally, I don’t even understand why you still talk that fucking loser.

You knew about the fighting that was going on at TMA about 2.0 and other issues for a long time yet you chose to do nothing about it. Why couldn’t we, at the very least, get a status update from you about what was going on? Did we feel we were owed that? No, but its just common courtesy to the community you built to let them know what you’re plans were and why you weren’t around. Is a post, just like the one you created here, too much to ask for? That would have nipped the problems in the bud a long time ago. You could have stopped all the slander and bullshit on TT a year ago, but again, you chose to do nothing. I’m not saying its all your fault, but it is your responsibility as Webmaster to oversee TMA. You say Nightshade should have taken more responsibility because this is technically his website and to me he did a damn sight better job than you did, but TMA is your responsibility if you are still going to be the Webmaster and have your name associated with it.

At the end of the day we’ve all done things we regret and wish we hadn’t done. I’ve admitted and apologized many times for my role in any problems I was a part of so don’t think I believe I’ve done nothing wrong myself and want to push the blame on others. However, having read this thread and had all my beliefs confirmed (that you really don’t care about the TMA community beyond what you want to be) and that we would not, in fact, get 2.0 in any sort of timely fashion, its hard for me to feel bad about the things I’ve said and always knew were true. I may have come across as disrespectful and you can think that I did/do hate you but in reality I never said anything that wasn’t true.

I don’t have any personal beef with you and I should say, because I probably haven’t yet, that I’m eternally grateful to you for creating this website and community and all you’ve done for us over the years by allowing such a great place to exist where I got to meet some of the greatest people I’ve ever known. So far that, thank you. I wasn’t even mad at you for telling Nightshade to strip me of my Mod powers, even though that is something I wanted for years, because I was in fact doing some things that were not proper conduct.

But I don’t have too much respect for you these days as Webmaster of TMA and here is why:

- You were happy to take our money back when TMA was in dire straights but you could really care less about what anyone thinks, wants, or if anyone leaves or stays.

- You want to clean up TMA top to bottom but you don’t want to deal with the biggest problem, Hellbent, and would rather just punish everyone equally because he’s your friend. Are you two fucking? Because you protect him like the girlfriend that fucks you good behind closed doors yet all your friends hate her because shes a cunt and you just can't see it.

- I’ve heard through the grapevine many times that you had issues with me, yet every time I was prepared to discuss them with you on AIM you just ignored me.

- You’ve shown, and clearly stated in this thread, that the only people that matter to you are people who play TM2PC with you. That’s like me telling everyone on TMA that if they don’t like or play Halo with me that I don’t care what they have to say and wouldn’t want to talk to them.

- You’re really only here now because you want to try and whip everyone into shape so that Jaffe won’t have ill feelings towards this community (too late), which in turn allows you to be privy to any future games he might be making and have your name in the credits. If you had been on top of shit years ago, that wouldn’t be a problem.

- You’ve always given special privileges to your own friends and people who throw a ton of money at this site regardless of whether those people did anything beneficial to TMA. If I give you enough money, can I do whatever I want here as well? Can I be made an Admin if I pay for the servers for a year? Maybe I can pay Jaffe to put your name in the credits of the next TM game.

- You were always a voice of balance and reason at this site, and if this thread is anything to go by, you still have that touch. You could have voiced your opinions about why Hellbent was completely wrong in his “facts” about TM games or you could have steered many conversations in most threads towards a more positive light, but instead, you choose to do nothing. If you cared, you would want to be apart of the important discussions.

- You are simply far too out of touch with your entire congregation at this point to not only govern it correctly but to even understand not only what the old members want, but what the new members want as well and figure out a way to satisfy everyone. You are too far removed to understand the difference between Hellbent trolling and just spewing random shit to get on people's nerves and hoping it sticks in order to have a voice and still be relevant, to intelligent posters who have something insightful to say even though it isn't the popular opinion, to newbies who haven't played past TM games with us and don't understand the level of contemplation and careful analysis most people have given the series over the last 15 plus years.

- Why are we still on this generic ass temp site where threads and replies disappear, new posters become ex-members, and spam bots have taken over? Again, no one thinks we are owed it but come on…it’s been four plus years now and TMX launched a year ago. I understand “Project X” is important to you but at this rate, by the time you launch 2.0, no one will be around to care.

Most of us, at one point in time, would have bent over backwards to help you out with anything you needed from keeping this site in order, to donations, to helping you, in any way possible, get TMA 2.0 off the ground if you would have just asked or acted like you gave a damn. You’re like the deadbeat alcoholic dad that leaves and then tries to come back years later to amend things only to find that his children aren’t as fond of him as he would like so he then chooses to raise his hand in order to get some respect. That isn’t our fault that’s your fault. We can only take so much hearsay and rumors on good faith before it eventually becomes a running joke. You aren’t a God and neither is Jaffe or ESP and TMA isn’t a religion that blindly worships any of you.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/23/13 at 10:19:00

XIZOR wrote on 03/23/13 at 01:47:12:
People like Kirahi that can’t get over not liking TMX are a problem that should be dealt with, but again, I’m not part of that problem.


Good grief Xizor.  You just can't keep your targets consistent can you?  

The irony is you're hear screamin' at Mort he shouldn't judge you or act like he knows what was going on because he wasn't even at Brawl reading it.

Yet, you freely admit you didn't read Totally Twisted much at all but you gladly assume you get what was going on and chuck me under the bus, doing the exact same type of behavior you say you're mad at Mort for.

Bloody hell people.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/23/13 at 12:43:52
I haven't read every single thing on TT over the last year, no, but I have seen a majority of it and enough to be aware of what's going on on TMA always whether I'm a part of it or not.

Sorry for throwing you under the bus Kilrahi. I have nothing against you personally and I know you are fighting the good fight and I agree with most of the things you have to say, but whenever I see heated debates going on on TT you are always there front and center. I'm not telling you what to do, but can't you just let it go at this point? You've always had a bad habit of arguing about TM to no end. You did it back in the TMBO days as well. I'm just saying man....

Also inb4 you say I'm always front and center with all the drama on TMA. Yes, the irony isn't lost on me.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Rab1d on 03/23/13 at 15:45:55
Here's why I stopped posting on TMA:

- Dual core processors/new computers killed TM2PC compatibility
- TMBO support died
- TMX was solid but it wasn't nearly as fun as TM2PC or TMBO
- I'm older and have way less time and way more responsibilities

None of it had to do with hating TMX, or Mort, or Jaffe, or anger toward lack of TMA 2.0


Mort - I appreciate all the time and effort you've put into this site over the years. Nearly all of my most enjoyable gaming moments were made possible because I found this site!  Maybe I'll see you in Generals 2 or TMX in the future.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/23/13 at 20:17:19
I was asked by SynthR to post this:

I don't know Mort very well. I only played with him in TM2PC for a bit, never ran across him in any other TM game, so I can't truly say I know what his intentions are. I find everything Mort has posted recently to be VERY passive aggressive. From what I've gathered, he pretty much blames the TMA vets for everything that has transpired in the last five plus years. From his fall from grace with Jaffe and developers (which really seems to burn his ass), no longer being able to get his site in the credits (another ass burner), the general discontent with TMX and the driving of new users away - the list can go on. He's pointing fingers at us, that much is clear. I'm fine with being labeled because he wasn't there to enforce the "rules". So what's the solution to all this? A massive purge and change of management? Rebooting the website and its community in hopes of repairing TMA's future image.

I think what this is boiling down to is something we all eventually yearn for: Nostalgia. One of Mort's points of argument is how TMA will never be in the credits of another TM game ever again. Let's ignore the fact that there might not ever be another Twisted Metal (unless they reboot it AGAIN) because they screwed up and discuss how this argument is pointless. TMA has evolved and mutated into something more than a simple fan site. The fact that we're fans of Twisted Metal doesn't make us special - we're just a fan site. Twisted Metal is one of those games with a small following and through this it allowed Mort to come in direct contact with the game's developers. That's great and awesome. Does that even mean we should be in the credits? I don't believe so. They don't owe us anything just as Mort doesn't. I'm sure Mort understands this most of all since he's in a similar position.

Going back to the evolution of TMA, Twisted Metal has also evolved over the years. How so? Well, TMBO wasn't TM2. TMHO wasn't TM2 or TMBO. TMX wasn't TMBO. How many arguments and debates spawned from those very comparisons? Things change and so do people along with it. An athlete wins an Olympic gold medal and tomorrow they grow old and become history. These newly revealed plans for the TMA reboot is nothing more than wanting to relive the glory days, to go back to square one with set laws and the aspirations to do better. The members who stuck around through the massive gaps between games kept that site active not through the discussion of Twisted Metal, but through building relationships. What does that tell you about the fan base and demand for Twisted Metal? But that doesn't matter to Mort, it has nothing to do with his original 1999 intentions of creating a fan site that solely discusses Twisted Metal. Over ten years later, his experiment has become a problem he can't control because he wasn't involved and it's no longer in line with his vision. You can't rule from the shadows and expect good things. He listed several reasons for his "absence", which only stated why he didn't post and not why he didn't police. Yet we're still a bunch of lawless ruffians who ruined everything.

Something that actually burns my ass is blaming us for his ex-relationship with Jaffe. Mort has lost contact with Jaffe, he cited it a few times, because of our behaviour. A friend stays in contact no matter what. How can a bunch of fans influence what Jaffe thought of Mort as a person? It doesn't make sense and it can't fall on us. I guess it shows the extent of their relationship and how much Mort and his website meant to Jaffe. This is why I brought up the PG-fication of TMA, to once again regain Lord Jaffe's favor. Getting a nod from developers by being in the credits AND having a trophy named after your site is amazing, but did Jaffe/ESP do it for the fans, the loyalty or for Mort himself? These gestures are being taken as some kind of act of God when in reality it's a few lines of programming or a simple picture. Mort seems to take this to a personal level.

One more thing I've noticed. I remember so many people bashing TMBO back in its height with nothing being done about it. It's a known fact that Mort loves TM2, apparently he still plays and enjoys TMX as well. He barely played TMBO and moved back to TM2 instead. Notice how Mort is upset with the TMX bashing, but never chimed in for TMBO? There's a double standard here. I don't like this high horse attitude vibe I get just because he's the web master. You're just a guy who created something. Get over it. The TMBO boards were ruthless and full of teenage dick measuring. TT at it's peak didn't even compare, but now it's a problem? Pfft, please...

I'm not going to be muzzled and TMA isn't going to evolve. Instead it's devolving back to its 13-year-old roots. TMA's time is over and will become a great part of my history.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/23/13 at 20:23:08
mfw ghost mod = Hellbent:



Morts face when community finds out Hellbent gets Mod status instead of a ban:



Then, mfw realized we all got trolled:



Good job Mort. You win. That is perhaps the greatest trolling the internet has ever seen. I guess you really do get us. I take back everything I said. Welcome back sir. Or should I say Sir Trollimer.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/23/13 at 20:56:12

XIZOR wrote on 03/23/13 at 20:17:19:
[color=#ff0000]Something that actually burns my ass is blaming us for his ex-relationship with Jaffe. Mort has lost contact with Jaffe, he cited it a few times, because of our behaviour. A friend stays in contact no matter what. How can a bunch of fans influence what Jaffe thought of Mort as a person? It doesn't make sense and it can't fall on us. I guess it shows the extent of their relationship and how much Mort and his website meant to Jaffe.


I thought SynthR's post was pretty brilliant across the board, but the above in particular resonated with me.

If Mort really did lose favor with Jaffe because the hard core fan base wasn't impressed with the new Twisted Metal . . . well that's just damn sad.  

Here's a tip:  Make a game that runs on every PS3 next time.  That's supposed to be the advantage of a console.  

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Truth on 03/23/13 at 21:48:04
Hellbent being given mod wouldn't surprise me at all. Why does anyone think Mort would do something to someone who worships him and is one of the last few he has left to play TMX with?

I find it hilarious that Mort criticized people over not liking and discussing the negatives of TMX when it had major problems and a huge gameplay element(DEFENSE) gone. Yet it was ok for for people including Mort to not like TMB and bring up the  ramming debates over and over. Which for the record I felt the whole debate of tm2/tmb ramming was fucking retarded. People acted as if ramming was completely gone from TMB. It would be like us not liking TMX because special weapons don't do as much damage as the previous TM or something similar. Kudos to everyone especially Rabid/ Roadie that played both TM2/TMB hardcore online because they shared the same great gameplay.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/23/13 at 22:25:04

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/23/13 at 22:26:27
Ok guys.

You've vented your anger now this has to stop.
Whatever feelings you have towards Mort he's still the webmaster and there has to be some degree of respect.

Pm him if you need to but please let the criticism on this boad stop.

Thank you.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/23/13 at 22:36:08
No.

This is literally the only open dialogue we have had with Mort for almost five years. He made this thread so when he wants it to be over he can say its over.

This may seem like disrespect, but let me tell you Arch, that has been a two way street. Everything is contained within this thread and you can just ignore it if its too much for you. The rest of TMA is fine. Let us have our final conversation please.

Thank you.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/23/13 at 23:40:22
See this is what i mean about respect.

I'll make this simple then:

This conversation is fine but the next poster who actually insults mort is getting suspended.

This also applies to any insults aimed at me.

Keep it civil at least please since that is a rule of this board.




Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/23/13 at 23:44:38
Arch, will you please point out WHERE they insulted Mort?  Because I don't see it.

If you are saying you can't criticize him, then that's just nuts (and I don't have a beef with the guy, but come on).  So what is it that irked you?



Edit: Nevermind, I see Xizor's photos.  Missed that earlier.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/23/13 at 23:58:02
I can't really argue with criticism kil.

Its going to be a heated post and you guys have a lot to talk about.

I didn't appreciate effectively been told to fuck off by xizor either when its my responsibility to keep this stuff in check.

I'll be as fair as possible going forward and as far as I'm concerned at least everyone will be treat the same.

And that includes hellbent.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Obliverate on 03/24/13 at 00:07:09
Mort is a meanie.

Come at me brother.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/24/13 at 00:34:37

Archminion wrote on 03/23/13 at 23:40:22:
See this is what i mean about respect.

I'll make this simple then:

This conversation is fine but the next poster who actually insults mort is getting suspended.

This also applies to any insults aimed at me.

Keep it civil at least please since that is a rule of this board.


No one has insulted Mort, or you?  ::)

The nature of the thread itself pretty much guarantees that these types of heated conversations are going to happen Arch. There is a dialogue at work here that spans the whole history of TMA; long before you were an Admin, much less a part of the site. You can be Captain America and use your super hero powers for good later when this thread is done. But this needs to happen. I'm sorry that bothers you but this will be the last of the bullshit so just let everyone get it out. You've allowed much worse to happen under your watch. Let's not be irrational here.


wrote on 03/23/13 at 23:44:38:
Edit: Nevermind, I see Xizor's photos.  Missed that earlier.


Standard internet photos are offensive now? ....wow.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrgrn on 03/24/13 at 00:35:30

The Truth wrote on 03/23/13 at 21:48:04:
Kudos to everyone especially Rabid/ Roadie that played both TM2/TMB hardcore online because they shared the same great gameplay.




I will take my kudos and leave peacefully.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/24/13 at 00:36:21

XIZOR wrote on 03/24/13 at 00:34:37:
Standard internet photos are offensive now? ....wow.


No, I just was saying I know what Arch was zeroing in on.  That doesn't mean I think it was a big deal.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/24/13 at 00:38:01
I wouldn't say he told you to fuck off, really. The way this thread seems to be going is, people are gonna let loose what they've had to say now that Mort's ear is in the game. Shit's gonna come out, and he was basically letting you know that he's gonna say what he needs to say, and if you don't wanna see it, then you shouldn't open the thread. And I agree 100%, because this should be the one thread where the gloves come off. I mean, didn't Mort tell everyone to speak up with what they need to let out? You're a mod, and it's obviously at your discretion what flies and what doesn't, but I'd like to think you understand what I'm saying.

And Hellbent being the GhostMod? Mort basically told the Brawl crew to fuck off, back-handedly, by doing that. But every leader needs a grunt to do his dirty work..

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/24/13 at 00:41:47
Ok. I'm just trying to clarify some of this. I wasn't sure if my 10,000 plus words of rebuttal and intelligent arguments were the problem or if it was a few random photos that are offensive. I can never tell what someone will get butt hurt about around here these days.

I didn't insult the Queen did I? I'm just making sure so Arch won't ban me.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/24/13 at 10:00:23
@RoaDiE

Dave's hands were tied. He designed the game, it was out the door, and fixing the technical problems all fell on ESP and Sony. As he's said before, he's not a programmer. All he can do is take our feedback, complaints, bugs, and pass them on to the team to fix. They must have had a huge list of problems which they just couldn't get to fixing just to release the game on time. I've also got a huge list of bugs I found in the demo and the full game, but they just couldn't afford to fix anything but the most major problems. That either falls on Sony for not extending the post-support budget, or ESP for creating so many problems in he first place. It's not that he was ignoring you (he didn't respond to some of my complaints either), it was that there wasn't anything he could do sadly. When you're the bringer of bad news, you tend not to want to say much. The main problem was the network errors and that got all the priority.

Game needed a lot more patches, but Sony seems done fixing the game. If they had more money for patches Dave would have experimented with more tweak patches e.g. nerf homings, and maybe even nerf the speed of missiles that you have such a problem with. Personally I wouldn't care with either changes, I still have fun either way not gonna change my game one bit.

@Ripzsaur

Sounds like Night & Magnum didn't want to ban him either. I didn't want to ban him because based on my limited involvement with Brawl and the 'culture', I just couldn't believe he had got that bad. I just assumed it was par for the course and just hoped people would work things out with him. End of the day it's just not so easy for people to ban someone that has been a part of TMA since 2001; without thinking twice anyway. So if banning seems too extreme or unfair, you need to take another route.

This is a community, and every community should have rules. This place was running lawless because everyone was waiting for 2.0, and clearly things have got out of hand (to the point people want HB banned; this was unheard of on old TMA). I believe at heart Hellbent is a good person, I know a completely different side of him. He's got his final warning now, so if he doesn't stop he'll get banned, and he'll have no one to blame but himself. We don't want to create another Hellbent, and that's what the rules are for. Ban him, and that's exactly what you'll get. First we had Blair, then Hellbent, who next? Xizor?

So you want new admins then that aren't afraid to ban someone? Duly noted. Any takers? It's always easier said than done. Who wants to be a new admin? Your first action could be banning Hellbent if you like, you'd be THE MAN!

@The_Dizaster_Child

Maybe I'm confusing you with Obliverate. I get all you new guys confused... I'm only really familar with the names of people from old TMA (TMB/TMSB/TMHO era).

But you're right, the game absolutely does have networking issues still. Some days are much worse than others, so I don't know exactly what the cause is. Some days I never get any network errors and play for hours fine, other days the same game room over and over just keeps giving me network errors, but then I pick another game and I get in that. So it just seems to be a problem with hosts, some players just can't connect to every host (or vice versa). These problems should have been fixed. It's really frustrating seeing a fun game in progress with a few minutes left to finish, and so I try to join it to catch the next game, but for 3 minutes in a row I keep getting network errors, just to have the game start again without me. Anyone that tells you this doesn't happen to them is lying. It's frustrating, because there is nothing wrong with my connection. If there was, I wouldn't be able to play so much as it is.

@Archminion

Perhaps we should rename it Spam on the Wall? Since there won't be anyone left to post there but spam bots.

@Magnum

I always considered Temp TMA to be NightShade's to do what he pleases. It took me 2 years to even get an account here. I think he mistook me registering and posting as taking back the throne, but I really didn't want any such thing until 2.0. I don't want to be the bad guy banning HB either. No one could have predicted most of TMA not liking TMX. Now we have defenders vs attackers, and other personal beefs between posters, shit has hit the fan. I hate that it's got to this point. Clearly it's not that easy to just ban someone that has been apart of this site since 2001, else he would have been banned already and none of this would have got to me.

@Reaper

Is that you? Security guard Reaper? Dan the Man? Old-TMA ex-TM Commish come Admin? Long time no see. Why didn't you ban HB back then?! It's all your fault!

@Rabid

Generals 2! Can't wait, and it'll be free. If it's good we can ditch all these clowns and make Generals Alliance! /joke

@The_Truth

Who are you and how would you know anything about Rabid? He barely played TMBO, no more than me (probably less in total). I played the game solid for about 8 months, recorded over 500 games, and played with Rabid maybe a handful of times. I'm guessing he was on an alias... or played years later after the fact (but I thought he was playing TM2pc with me and Generals? Rabid is way more mysterious than me or you).

@Archminion

Don't sweat it, he's been holding on to all of this for the good part of 5+ years. It's like a huge turd and finally it can come out. I think he's finished... maybe... probably not. Welcome back Xizor!

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/24/13 at 10:14:13
@XIZOR

The first half of your post was completely reasonable (thanks for the history lesson on HB), until I got to your, "here is why you suck" portion of your post, then you just got insufferable again. I take it you defeated Hellbent in the annual -==[ Asshole of TMA ]==- championship? And I've already said I regretted not keeping the community informed on 2.0. Anyway, where do I start...

- Your grapevine is complete nonsense, total fabrication, all speculation. I have never once told anyone, or ever talked about you, to anyone, period, until last year when you were dragging my name through the mud to win your battles. And since then I never brought up your name again with anyone, until this post. So I can't but help think that little nugget of BS has been stewing in your pot for a bit too long. Is that clear? Never, ever, have I brought up your name, until last year. I never had a single opinion of you, positive or negative. That's not a knock. I remember playing you in TMBO, and you found the site after playing me, and thought you beat me but didn't realise the scoring was net damage. Wasn't that funny? Ah the good old days, but instead you want to go down this road.

- I never wanted anyone to leave, of course I care. Ask Kilrahi or Stitches, do I ignore them? Ask Roadie, all the TMBO players, Tony, Maartyrr, etc. You have this idea I don't care about people just because I don't care about you? That's a warped perspective. I'm sorry we never became friends, you just never entered my circle for whatever reason. It goes both ways. You also have to realise, everyone wanted to be my friend, everyone IM'd me, and it's just impossible to be friends with everyone equally. The people that played TM2pc I just naturally became friends with, even some TMBO'ers. It was nothing personal. I'm friends with TMBO'ers still. You sound crazy, really.

- I'm not exactly sure what you're charging me with concerning donations. Let me make this very clear, donations covered maybe 10% of the hosting bill. MonkeyKing footed the rest (it was $100 a month for years, he paid it all until he could do it no further and that's when old TMA went offline and then Night jumped to the rescue with Temp TMA). Now we're on Wolfenhex's server, it's a lot cheaper but still donations are not paying for anything (because no one donated except P7; that other guy you all hate). The situation got so bad on old TMA we were accepting big donations from Blair just for his stupid brawling post, so you guys could keep having your fun. Did you see me blaming you for that? So why are you blaming me for anything?

- Again you still think these rules are just for HB. If you can't get past that belief then I can't convince you otherwise. You hate him, lots of people hate him, I get it. Move on. You did it with TMX, do it with HB. If he fucks up again he'll get banned. That was the idea, you would stick around for his inevitable banning, and everyone is happy. This HB you hate, I do not know. The guy I talk to is a nice guy, just has a lot of problems, and being the good friend I am I try to help him whenever I can (even if it's just listening). But if the right thing to do to help him get better is for him to be banned, I support that. But who am I to say? I really don't know.

- You're privy to all my convos with Night & Roadie? Great detail about HB? Hardly. If HB had been a problem for the last couple years now and Night had brought it up with me, why didn't he do anything? I didn't even have an account here yet. This place was Night's to run, he didn't need my permission for anything. HE was the webmaster! What did he do about HB? Nothing, but I get the blame because I'm busy busting my ass on 2.0 and not tending to your every need here. I'm sooooooo sorry. Give me a break.

- I'm only here now? I've been here the last year. I'm not whipping anyone into shape for anything. TMA needs some damage control, and you aren't helping, but you are fascinating I'll admit.

- You can't buy special thanks. Name one special priviledge I gave to one of my friends here because they donated? What are you talking about exactly. P7 donated the most, he isn't a mod or admin. Blair donated heaps, that brawling post? And you said they're my own friends. At least back up one of your outlandish claims. What power exactly has anyone been able to buy that didn't benefit everyone in some way? That's right, you got nothing.

- Want an interesting story on people buying power at TMA? I had a guy (not Blair or P7) offer me $500 to be made a mod back on old TMA, at a time when we were struggling to stay afloat. It would have really helped, but I didn't think it set a good precident to let anyone buy into the ranks. No one has EVER bought into the ranks, I actually have some dignity. Back then that $500 was 5 months hosting (or more if we used it to get a discount), but after 5 months, what happens if that new mod has a falling out with someone or we have to demote him over some incident? He's gonna want his money back. Donations like that are never true donations, they have stipulations.

- I can't monitor every post on TT every day and make sure everything is running smoothly. I roll my eyes at most things HB posts. I trust people like Roadie to correct his nonsense facts and opinions, I leave this up to the community. I can't police every damn thread, it's not my job. We have admins, staff, to help with that, and other valuable members that know everything about TM they don't need me. Now suddenly I'm so important? You expect way too much of me dude, considering how much I've already done for TMA.

- Do you run your own community fansite? Has it been running over 10 years? Have you got in special thanks multiple times? Have you had to deal with craploads of technical and political problems? No? Enough said. Once you do that, tell me how it all goes then you can talk about how to do things better (assuming I was even trying to).

- Why didn't you push for HB's banning when you were a moderator? Why didn't all you mods & admins that hate HB so much get together with Night and just do it for the better of TMA? Take some responsibility, YOU could have helped avoid all of this, now you're passing the buck. Didn't have to get me involved, it's so easy to just blame me from the other side.

- Complaining about having a place to post? Listen to yourself. It's people with bitter attitudes like you I am absolutely NOT making 2.0 for. For someone that advocates moving on, you should take your own advice. I didn't setup this place, it's Night's. I haven't a clue how it's run technically or how to fix it. So you want a Temp Temp TMA to fix Temp TMA? I'll be sure to tell Night. I mean remember, this place was only supposed to be temporary.

"That isn’t our fault that’s your fault. We can only take so much hearsay and rumors on good faith before it eventually becomes a running joke."

We? You're speaking for yourself, Mr. Bitterpants.

@SynthR

That's all fine & dandy, but I didn't dislike TMBO one bit, I thought the game was great; I just had more fun in TM2pc. I gave TMBO a good run. For that to be a fair comparison to the vets hating TMX, I'd have to have hated TMBO aswell. Most people that hated TMB didn't even play it (AIC and Blair), so why even take them seriously? Either way it's hardly comparable. The nerfed ramming didn't make me hate the game, it was just different, the strength was in the weapons combat. I'd have loved it either way. When TMX goes down for good (and it will) I'm more likely to return to TMBO (if I'm welcome) than TM2pc (has done its course + Roadie & Rabid can't play it anymore). What some people conveniently fail to realise is I love all TM's (except TM3/4), some more than others, but that's just down to personal preferences.

I'm not pointing fingers at you guys, if anything be true to yourself and don't hold back, as you have been. You don't like the new TM, so be it, I accepted that a long time ago and have not wasted a second trying to change that or convince you otherwise. The fact is due to most of the vets, the most respected people on this site, do not like TMX, and have no problem saying so, has in turn damaged TMA in a lot of areas. From developer support to TMX fans. We've gone from a TM fansite (where TM2 and TMB are respected across the board) to a TM fansite that does not care for the latest TM. It's just the reality of the situation, that relationships will be tested. From me, to you, to Dave, to everyone. We're now all less united than we've ever been, and you wonder why we hit this snag in the road? Easy to just blame me and say I've lost touch.

I haven't lost my relationship with Jaffe, and he hasn't blamed me for anything. He's just not working on a TM anymore so allocating time to me is no longer viable. It hurt, but he's professional and has to move on. He knows 100s of people in the gaming industry, I'm just one of his biggest fans that actually got to talk to him. It was his sole decision to put us in the special thanks, that's for everyone here not just me. He wasn't even going to put my name in the credits, then he offered it and I said sure, but I wouldn't feel right if he just listed me and I asked if he could list Night aswell (since he had done so much keeping TMA together with Temp TMA) and he said sure, then he said he'll add Arch too for all his great support on the Europe side of things.

It's funny how I open up about some things, be honest, and I still get picked apart. I feel like I'm at a carnival sitting on one of those dunking machines and everyone is taking a shot. I'm wet, I get it.

@XIZOR

GhostMod007, is a moderator assigned duties to delete spam and nothing more. He is not a normal mod, he is a 'ghost', he has no name, he deletes spam not for glory, but so you can read topics without so much spam. So who cares who it is as long as they're doing their job and making the site cleaner? Did you offer? Has anyone offered to help? All I hear is complaining about spam, so I do something about it without ruffling any feathers, but I still can't win. You win the internets Xizor. Congrats. Here is a cookie.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/24/13 at 10:22:52
I would have took no pleasure in banning anyone anyway.

I just felt with new stricter rules in place admin would have needed to be seen to be doing something.
I felt I was been told to get lost by Xizor and that the rules didn't matter.

If I'd just ignored (or worse actually did butt out) that I felt it might have proved the state of the place that the admins/mods have no say or no authority at all.

Hence my threat to suspend the next poster who clearly went against the rules again.

Nightshade has spoken to me though and made it clear that maybe this topic does need to run it's course and that I can back down this time.

I'm more than happy with that as the pressure is off to do something about it and I can just keep reading from the sidelines.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 03/24/13 at 10:26:39
always considered Temp TMA to be NightShade's to do what he pleases. It took me 2 years to even get an account here. I think he mistook me registering and posting as taking back the throne, but I really didn't want any such thing until 2.0. I don't want to be the bad guy banning HB either. No one could have predicted most of TMA not liking TMX. Now we have defenders vs attackers, and other personal beefs between posters, shit has hit the fan. I hate that it's got to this point. Clearly it's not that easy to just ban someone that has been apart of this site since 2001, else he would have been banned already and none of this would have got to me.

Set aside the fact I'm not 100% on AIM, I would say that 95% of why you were not contacted was because this is Nightshade's domain. I understand that. Coupled with the fact that you're doing what your doing, and there's the other 5 of why I didn't talk to you. So yea. 200% in that area would be my fault.  

Again, no hard feelings at all. I'm also glad you see and understand why it was a difficult position to be in. I could've banned a whole bunch of people that were engaged in that entire argument really. Then what would we have?

Something simmilar to now. Hardly anyone here.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrahi on 03/24/13 at 12:40:59
Okay, but this is a lot of emoting for a bunch of dudes.  It might be time to wrap it up the way dudes usually do.

I wish there was some game we could all play right now to whoop each other's collective asses.  

Then we'd all be friends again.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/24/13 at 13:02:06
May i suggest tmx?

;)

A gaming brawl sounds like the way forward tho.

Maybe those thinking about leaving might even change their minds...?



One can hope...

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/24/13 at 16:35:27
“So you want new admins then that aren't afraid to ban someone? Duly noted. Any takers? It's always easier said than done. Who wants to be a new admin? Your first action could be banning Hellbent if you like, you'd be THE MAN!”



Ooo, ooo, ME, ME, PICK ME, PICK ME!!

“I remember playing you in TMBO, and you found the site after playing me, and thought you beat me but didn't realise the scoring was net damage. Wasn't that funny? Ah the good old days, but instead you want to go down this road.”

How can I forget that? What a stupid noob I was back then. Ah, the good old days indeed.

“- Your grapevine is complete nonsense, total fabrication, all speculation. I have never once told anyone, or ever talked about you, to anyone, period, until last year when you were dragging my name through the mud to win your battles. And since then I never brought up your name again with anyone, until this post. So I can't but help think that little nugget of BS has been stewing in your pot for a bit too long. Is that clear? Never, ever, have I brought up your name, until last year. I never had a single opinion of you, positive or negative. That's not a knock. I remember playing you in TMBO, and you found the site after playing me, and thought you beat me but didn't realise the scoring was net damage. Wasn't that funny? Ah the good old days, but instead you want to go down this road.”

Well, if my information was wrong then I guess it was wrong. But that came directly from Hellbent. He said that you said that if I don’t quit slandering TMX on TT that I would get banned and I did that, because I thought that is what you wanted.

“- I never wanted anyone to leave, of course I care. Ask Kilrahi or Stitches, do I ignore them? Ask Roadie, all the TMBO players, Tony, Maartyrr, etc. You have this idea I don't care about people just because I don't care about you? That's a warped perspective. I'm sorry we never became friends, you just never entered my circle for whatever reason. It goes both ways. You also have to realise, everyone wanted to be my friend, everyone IM'd me, and it's just impossible to be friends with everyone equally. The people that played TM2pc I just naturally became friends with, even some TMBO'ers. It was nothing personal. I'm friends with TMBO'ers still. You sound crazy, really.”

I already commented on that here:

I understand you have a life and you have quite a few friends from TMA already and can’t properly get to know everyone at the site but you would think some of the veterans would at least be worth your time.

So I said basically the same thing here so we’re on the same page and no hard feelings. I’m not cool enough to be your friend. Got it. :P

“- I'm not exactly sure what you're charging me with concerning donations. Let me make this very clear, donations covered maybe 10% of the hosting bill. MonkeyKing footed the rest (it was $100 a month for years, he paid it all until he could do it no further and that's when old TMA went offline and then Night jumped to the rescue with Temp TMA).”

About that; so what was your plan going to be? Why didn’t anyone know why TMA went down until much later? We’re you just going to leave the site down for years until 2.0 was ready? Because I don’t think that would have helped this community either. Seems to me you’ve never really had the money to maintain this place and depended on the community for a lot of things so you should have told us how bad it was getting. We would have helped out more.

Can we put up a Kickstarter for TMA 2.0? A one hundred dollar donation gets your name in the credits (see what I did there?). Five Hundred gets you your own on thread on Brawl on the Wall, and one thousand gets you Admin status.

“This HB you hate, I do not know. The guy I talk to is a nice guy, just has a lot of problems, and being the good friend I am I try to help him whenever I can (even if it's just listening).”

That’s because he kisses your ass and pretends to be a great guy so that he can get away with whatever he wants on TMA. I would love to hear how he spun all the drama that was going on over the years to you to make it seem like he was the victim and that all of us were the bad guys. I have known the nice side of Hellbent you speak of, but as far as I can see, that side doesn’t exist any more. It was swallowed whole by hate, anger, and the simple fact that he’s an emotional train wreck to begin with.

“- You're privy to all my convos with Night & Roadie? Great detail about HB? Hardly. If HB had been a problem for the last couple years now and Night had brought it up with me, why didn't he do anything? I didn't even have an account here yet. This place was Night's to run, he didn't need my permission for anything. HE was the webmaster! What did he do about HB? Nothing, but I get the blame because I'm busy busting my ass on 2.0 and not tending to your every need here. I'm sooooooo sorry. Give me a break.”

I know more than you think I do as I’ve been close friends with all the higher ups and anyone who’s ever been apart of your “private counsel”. Nightshade did do a lot of things we asked and he was always in tune with the core community until the last year or more but that’s fine. But then, that’s two webmasters who aren’t around and aren’t taking control so where were we supposed to go then?  You want to say it was Nightshades problem? Fine. But you seem to be passing the buck yourself on a lot of these issues I bring up. So basically, whenever there is a problem on TMA we should just go to anyone but you. Got it.

“- You can't buy special thanks. Name one special priviledge I gave to one of my friends here because they donated? What are you talking about exactly. P7 donated the most, he isn't a mod or admin. Blair donated heaps, that brawling post? And you said they're my own friends. At least back up one of your outlandish claims. What power exactly has anyone been able to buy that didn't benefit everyone in some way? That's right, you got nothing.”

Blair bought his way back into TMA even though it was just one thread. Still, he was the worst thing to ever happen to TMA, but with enough cash, he was allowed to stay in some capacity.

Your friends are the only ones who got to know what was going on behind the scenes with the status of 2.0 and why you weren’t around. Apparently the rest of the community wasn’t important enough to be given this information, then you have five different people coming to TMA telling everyone five different things about the “exclusive” info they got from Mort, all conflicting, and then the fighting started all because you couldn’t just say, “sorry I’ve been gone guys, but 2.0 isn’t coming for a while”.

Hellbent still being around simply because he is your friend. Any other community would have banned him long ago but as long as he plays nice with you, he’s been able to run amuck around here. You see the dumb shit he posts on TT yet you never correct it or set him straight. All because he’s your friend.

“- Do you run your own community fansite? Has it been running over 10 years? Have you got in special thanks multiple times? Have you had to deal with craploads of technical and political problems? No? Enough said. Once you do that, tell me how it all goes then you can talk about how to do things better (assuming I was even trying to).”

Well, sort of. I’ve been a Mod here, and an Admin at a couple other sites, and I’ve been around TMA for 10 years as well, so I know how it all works. You aren’t special aside from the fact that you can code and build cool as fuck websites but I know for a fact that I could do a better job running this place than you have over the last five years, because if nothing else, I was around every day doing whatever I could for TMA as just a lowly poster. I do hope one day to have my name in the credits of a video game though. You’ve really inspired me to reach for the stars. I hope to one day be as cool as you are.

“- Why didn't you push for HB's banning when you were a moderator? Why didn't all you mods & admins that hate HB so much get together with Night and just do it for the better of TMA? Take some responsibility, YOU could have helped avoid all of this, now you're passing the buck. Didn't have to get me involved, it's so easy to just blame me from the other side.”

Because it hadn’t gotten that bad at that point, and to be honest, a lot of us were acting like jerks so banning one person when I myself and others were doing the same thing isn’t the answer. A lot of us have fought over the last five years. A lot. But we’ve all come to the conclusion that its stupid and pointless. Everyone except Hellbent that is. No one really wanted him banned until just recently but we all knew it wasn’t going to happen either way.

“So you want a Temp Temp TMA to fix Temp TMA?”

Are we still calling this Temp TMA? We’ve been here for an eternity now. Isn’t it just TMA?

“GhostMod007, is a moderator assigned duties to delete spam and nothing more. He is not a normal mod, he is a 'ghost', he has no name, he deletes spam not for glory, but so you can read topics without so much spam. So who cares who it is as long as they're doing their job and making the site cleaner? Did you offer? Has anyone offered to help?"

You can just call him Hellbent now. We all know who it is. Another clear sign of your favoritism I was speaking of earlier. I guess you don’t see the irony here. Everyone wants Hellbent banned so instead, the guy who helped destroy the community is now assigned to help fix it? What? I get it though. You probably told him to shut his mouth and then gave him ghost mod status so he could still feel important and delete spam. I think its sweet how you look out for your retarded little buddy. Do you tell him about the rabbits? Poor old Hellbent. All he has is TMA. Has he told you about his bar yet? You HAVE to hear about his bar. It’s the greatest thing in Texas apparently. Get him to tell you the story about his bar. You’ll love it. The best part though? Its the story that never ends.

By the way, like I said before, I’ve always been first in line to do literally anything for TMA. I did offer to help delete the spam bots but I just assumed I’d never be given the keys to this place again anyway. I had heard that P7 was tasked with helping archive TMA and Brawl. I would have loved to help do that. Going through old threads and shit would have been a blast from the past for me. Regardless of what you think about me, I’ve always cared for TMA just as much if not more so than most people and I’m sorry if I’m coming off like a dick to you, but in a strange way, I feel like TMA is partially mine to you know? I’ve been here for a decade. This place was always my home away from home and on any given day I was usually on TMA 24/7. It only makes sense for someone with that much drive and time to let them help but I’m sure that ship has sailed by now.

“You win the internets Xizor. Congrats.”

I know. That’s why I have the belt “Winning” because I win at everything.



I love you Mort. You fucking dickhead.  ;)

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoketPowered on 03/24/13 at 16:38:20
To answer Nightshade's question: I'm here because I'm a Twisted Metal fan. When people ask me what games I play, random strangers, Twisted Metal is the first thing that comes from my mouth. I don't have much time to play games anymore so when I do it has to be something worthwhile and Twisted Metal is on my short play list. While lately I've stopped playing TMX online because of the terrible connection I have currently and the errors when I join games isn't worth my time right now. I still play TMX offline right now because I still need my fix a couple times a week.

as for BoTW. I still go there but I just go to the Earwig Infestation thread. I tend to stay away from other troll threads and replies. I actually like Hellbent for some random comments he makes but I tend to stay away from his posts that are egging on arguments. For this I like that we are taking away this right to be an idiot but I fear it is late.

as for you Mort, I have a deep respect for TMA but I guess wanted a bit more out of this website or community being a Twisted Metal fan. I looked forward to TMA 2.0. I still think we could have a deeper depth even in the temp boards. We need more pinned threads that help new Twisted Metal fans. Especially ones of the new game. While we had much discussion in TT we need more organization. In sort we need a tip section for each supported game and have it be organized.

The only thing that has upset me was the lack of control here on TMA. It just got out of hand and the random aliases was nearly a breaking point for me. Nearly.

Anyways we all know this site wont get a huge pulse again until a new TM comes out. TMA could have been the place for ladders for the new TM game, hints, tips, walk throughs ( that main stream crap which is just frosting on the cake but frosting makes the cake/site look appealing ) etc but we missed out. Hell I'm a mediocre TMX player and would like to see a tip page just for me.

Anyways I love TMA and I've been here for about a decade.

And the further answer Nightshade's question: I'm here because I'm a loyal Twisted Metal fan and because I have a hard time letting this community go.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Rab1d on 03/24/13 at 16:40:44
@Mort - I saw the free to play, not sure how I feel about that.  It will likely bring a larger user base, but a lot of those people will be useless easy wins.  They will likely offer new unlockable units/armies/generals powers for a fee.  So essentially an expansion pack where you can pick and choose what you want to buy.  I wouldn't buy USA SWG or Laser, would you?  Anyway, I signed up to be a beta tester.  This might be my last hope for enjoying a new game...fingers crossed.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoaDiE on 03/24/13 at 17:04:23
Well...

now we know who deleted a few people's replies in that brawl thread.

Ghostmod aka Hellbent.

He didnt really stick to the whole deleting spam bots game plan.

EDIT: Dont get your hopes up Rabid. This is EA afterall.

And Mort - Rabid played more than 8-9 months. He played for a couple years regularly. And then on and off from time to time. Hell he was the leader of two clans, one of which being one of the best clans of all time in the game ;) And he was always slated as one of the best players of all time. Thats not hardly playing by my definition. Think i mentioned that to you before that he played longer than you recall.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/24/13 at 18:51:39
I was going to mention that as well. Rabid played a ton of TMBO and he was most definitely in the top 5 players. That dude always played with beast mode on. Guess you were out of touch with the community even back then Mort.

OOOOOOOOH SNAP!

Screenshot of the ex-Brawl board the other day.



Who is doing a shitty job at their duties now Hellbent?!

OOOOOOOOH SNAP NUMBA TWO!

Saw this today and it reminded me of Archminion.



I'm going to read his replies in this guys voice from now on.

OOOOOOOOH SNAP NUMBA THREE!

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Rab1d on 03/24/13 at 19:12:27

RoaDiE wrote on 03/24/13 at 17:04:23:
Hell he was the leader of two clans, one of which being one of the best clans of all time in the game ;)


Are you counting A9 and )2 as separate clans?  I think they were essentially the same clan.

If you are referring to INV, I was only technically 1 of 3 co-leaders.  SoC and EvilED would be the other 2.

Even though A9 didn't have such an "all star" lineup, I feel like it was just as good if not better than INV.  Myself, you, SynthR, Roket, Eakius, maartyrr, Simkar, Joetwisted, and Surgeon got shit done.  And even Xizor was on the squad for a bit before defecting over to the darkside.


Anyway thanks for the credos guys.  I wish I played TMBO more than I did, but yea I did play more than Mort thinks!  You guys always play on wednesday and saturday now?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by lemmywinks on 03/24/13 at 22:03:44
I also distinctly remember Rabid being very good.  I was even in his clan for a bit.  I always thought I was in the top 15-20 players from TMA in TMBO when I was in my TM prime, but Rabid always was on another level.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by joe twisted on 03/24/13 at 23:16:02
lol I remember doing my tryout with Rabid to get in A9 and it was a 5 life lms. I either killed him 2 or 3 times but he obviously worked me pretty good, so was ready for the "you suck, no clan for you" but dude told me I did great and invited me!  Just being able to compete with him was a compliment, definitely on another level.  Very good times

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoaDiE on 03/24/13 at 23:29:05
I meant INV and A9. And yes I know you were one of three leaders but it counts ;)

Also.

Please note we all were good back in the year 2003... but after we left people got real good, light-years better even. Far surpassed the A9/Early INV days. OF course im referring to Team LMS days.

This is why we always wanted Rabid to fight Vicente lmao.

Ive gone super saiyan now myself. Rabid ain't got nothing on me.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Obliverate on 03/25/13 at 01:50:52

Mortimer wrote on 03/24/13 at 10:00:23:


@The_Dizaster_Child

Maybe I'm confusing you with Obliverate. I get all you new guys confused... I'm only really familar with the names of people from old TMA (TMB/TMSB/TMHO era).



No. No no no, you know what? I'm not new. Dizaster is not new. It's fine, and it's dandy, and it's just fucking great that you have no clue as to who we are. We've been here 5 years. You know what happened since we joined? A lot of shit. We were visited by some fun folks, such as Bonita Prime and Heartbreak. We had a great fucking time sans-glorious leader. Shows how in touch you are with the community you want so desperately to helm again. Just fucking great, because for the past five years we've been some of the few fucks that still came to this site after shit went down. Hey, remember that time TMA went down without warning? Must've been just yesterday we were rocking a dated site from 2002 that looks like it was built with a Javascript-for-Dummies catalog, because you know what? I was there! I remember the shitty fanart, the shitty comedy jokes, the shitty test wall, I remember it all. I remember I broke Ask TMA with a fucking link, and you know what?

It wasn't yesterday. We've been at this goddamn 'temp' site for 4 fucking years, don't try to pass this shit off as 'okay.' Just because you never said "I promise" doesn't disregard the fact that you can't deliver. OP never fucking delivers, and you continue the trend. The only difference is 12 years ago you started a site where you could vent about how much you hated TM3 and 4, and then you told us you were building a new one! A site so snazzy, so chic, and so-fucking-full of moxie that even some 1950's-tough-guy would be scared of its Web 3.0-prowess. I'm sure whatever phrases I muttered just flew straight over your down-under scalp but maybe you'll understand this: I'm out. Capiche. Good bye dickweed. Go eat Cheerios with Durock and jack off to pictures of DJ Jaffe Jeff.

Maybe Blair will pay for your lube, I don't know.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/25/13 at 01:59:38
Welp, Obliverate beat me to it, but his first paragraph pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly. It's awesome that after five years, we're still considered noobs in the eyes of his royal highness. I guess the hazing, bashing, and brawling I've endured and pushed on through to earn the respect of the Brawl crowd that I happily call my friends was for naught. Shit, can I get a do-over now that you're here to see it for yourself? I'll get you some binoculars first, though. That high horse you're on is WAAAAAY up there. Wouldn't want ya to miss a thing.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Zerathustra on 03/25/13 at 14:21:45
Wow! Holy motherfucking shitballs! This is really getting to me for once! After the old TMA disappeared, I stopped w/ BOTW, this is fucking lagubrious! The place where no one remembers your name...TMA is dying?! This is it FOLKS, This...is...it

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mecit on 03/25/13 at 19:36:02
I personally see no problem with revoking BOTW General Discussion totally, at this point. Everyone objected to it already left so that should be fine. That would solve the spam problem completely.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mosh on 03/26/13 at 00:58:31
OK... this has to stop right now.

firstly, Dim Shades isn't here to defend himself, so stop bringing him up. he's a TMA original goon, regardless of whatever, he deserves respect even if he deleted his account and migrated to a new forum full of other TMA goonies to talk about whatever they want to talk about. It's not actually a Twisted Metal forum, it's more a private gamers forum.

Hellbent, you do realize your antagonizing is non-productive? You ought be doing something more productive than this, because Mortimer has done nothing to deserve the disrespect he is getting as a result of your antagonizing and at times personal attacks against posters even after Brawl has been shutdown. All Mort wants to do is try to make this a better place for Twisted Metal fans, and right now you are not helping. He stuck up for you and you're making him seem like an asshole.

For the record I am registered at BGA because I want to keep in touch with those who don't want to stay here, & that is all. TMA is my 1 & only home for TM discussion though, it's got a whole lot of history. I've been been supporting TMA since it was a petition site against TM3&4, so to see people leaving in droves over personal shit really irks me.  

Hellbent, I insist you take a break from posting. Work on your art, play some TMX, whatever, but arguing with Xizor and KillerGreen and others is very non-productive and really hurting TMA right. I understand you're only human, you would rather talk about TM, and you get caught up in these personal arguments, and maybe even enjoy it, but as a member of BRAK I insist you take a break from posting for a considerable period and seek peace, because it aint here. I think it's up to you to change, therefore I will not do anything to your account but insist you take a leave of absence.

I'd also like to hear what Nightshade has to say, as I believe he is inclined to somewhat agree.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by NightShade on 03/26/13 at 01:05:06
For everybody's info, HB is suspended. I don't remember what we outlined as far as duration of first/second/third offenses and all of that and I'm about to go to bed, but this shit has to stop.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/26/13 at 01:10:58
Just for the record, I was keeping that going as long as possible to prove my point (all of which has since been deleted so this won't really make sense to anyone but me and Kilrgrn).This is literally what every thread on TMA has devolved into over the last couple years; people having a discussion and then Hellbent coming in and derailing it with stupidity and personal attacks on other members until everyone just quits. I may have come off like a dick in this thread and honestly I don't really care because I have nothing to lose here and I've said what needs to be said.

Hellbent is suspended, therefore my work is done here. Peace out gentlemen.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/26/13 at 01:23:40
I'm kind of wondering if Mort let go of the leash to see how Hellbent would act in public with his eye in view. I hope he took notes, because that was Hellbent Lite as far as I'm concerned.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/26/13 at 02:04:28
@XIZOR

So you believe HB, the compulsive liar? You contradict so much of what you say. On one hand I'm not supposed to believe HB, or do, and you do, but don't, or do, I can't keep track when to believe HB. Why would anyone believe anything he says coming from me? If I have something to say, I say it; I don't say it through HB, or P7, or anyone. I never told him you would be banned for slandering TMX, besides, you didn't do that and you moved on, proving him wrong and you gullible. So if HB tried to threaten you something, using my name, like you used my name to attack him (that we are fuck buddies or something), it's all the same thing right?

So you're just bitter that I'm not your friend like I am other people here. I get that, but that's more a problem with you and not me. I can't force myself to be everyones friend, that would be disingenuous. Clearly you're cool enough to be a lot of peoples friends, but it's been a long bug up your butt that you aren't mine. If you'd just been more patient for 2.0, you would see I'd be making a more active part to get involved in the community, and maybe it could have started then. You never saw the old TMA, it had boards for mods & admins, and you'd have been a part of that. But oh well.

I thought everyone knew why old TMA went down because Monkey King had to pull the plug? He was so ashamed he didn't even give me a heads-up warning, but he apologised after. Thank god for Nightshade. The fact Temp TMA sprung up meant I was no longer rushing to get something up myself, so I could then instead spend more time making it a lot better... and better... and so much better it never made my own deadlines. But we still have Temp TMA, right? No, we just have more drama apparently, and people walking out.

Servers were a lot more expensive to run back in the old TMA days, now they're a lot cheaper. This one only costs $35 a month, old TMA was $100 a month. MonkeyKing offered to be the server treasurer, I accepted, and he did a great service keeping TMA online for year after year. He didn't want any credit, didn't want anyone to know how much he had spent on TMA (thousands) because of how people look down on people that donate too much, like they're trying to buy power. He never had any power, but he was respected, and I considered him a great friend. He never complained about donations, or that he was in trouble until it was too late.

I like how your last thought on some of my quotes is a joke (e.g. the Kickstarter thing), I see what you did there.

I handled everything on old TMA, Night was supposed to handle everything here. Did I do anything majorly wrong on old TMA? You cite some things, but nothing major. If your main problem is what happened here, it does fall on Night. But he clearly did not have the time for it, neither did I. The mistake clearly was that we did not put you in charge of things, so we'll both take full responsibility there. But seriously, if I did give you updates on 2.0, would that make you hate HB any less? Would that really change anything? You guys still wouldn't have liked TMX, you still wouldn't have wanted to play 360/PS3 games with him anymore. After all, he became a terrible person over the last 2 years, and that's Temp TMA.

I've been friends with HB since 2001, and I never read anything he posted on Brawl (and barely anything on TT because he didn't usually post on TM forums). You want me to correct everything he says? I correct him on AIM when he says things wrong, but it doesn't stop him posting his opinions. I can't control him, he doesn't kiss my ass. So you're saying his whole friendship with me is fake and he's just kissing my ass so he can get away with murder on TMA? It must really get under your goat that he's my friend and not you. What can I possibly see in the guy? I don't know, he's funny, and under all that bravado is a real person (that you probably don't see on TMA).

You don't think that was a good deal, the Blair thing? 3 months hosting, so he can have his own post that no one has to post in, the only post HE is allowed to post in. Controlled chaos, and you get 3 more months of great times with your best friends on TMA. If you want your own topic (you can have them for free btw), I'll give you one for just $100! So unless you donate $300 so Blair can't have that topic, you really can't talk. I put it out there many times we needed donations, and you aren't a stupid guy right? You can see the sidebar donation tallies, you can see how things don't add up. I try to help the site stay online by giving Blair his silly post, and it's "buying in". Ok... whatever, I'm the bad guy. But I do take full responsibility for that decision.

"You aren’t special aside from the fact that you can code and build cool as fuck websites"

Ah that's hilarious, thanks for that back-handed compliment. I hope one day you get to see what I'm working on and DO think I'm special. I'm losing sleep at the moment, it would really help.

"I do hope one day to have my name in the credits of a video game though. You’ve really inspired me to reach for the stars. I hope to one day be as cool as you are."

You're a funny guy. Hey, I also think HB is a funny guy. How do I choose?

"Because it hadn’t gotten that bad at that point, and to be honest, a lot of us were acting like jerks so banning one person when I myself and others were doing the same thing isn’t the answer."

This is what HB spins to me, that you guys do the exact same things he did and does, but you want him banned for it.

It does look bad that HB was indeed the GhostMod. Nice Of Mice & Men reference, (spoiler) hopefully I don't have to shoot him in the end. The timing was not great but it was never intended as giving you or anyone the middle finger or showing favoritism. It was simply a case of people complaining to me that Brawl was full of spam (this was a few weeks ago), and HB offered to clean up all the spam and I saw GhostMod as the best option. The spam problem was becoming a headache and I just wanted it dealt with so YOU GUYS could continue to enjoy brawl.

I still need help getting 2.0 ready, the problem is most of it is tedious tasks (e.g. databasing all the awards), which I have asked other people but they turned down. People not even in my all-elusive inner-circle. If you really care so much about TMA (and you clearly do else you would have gone ages ago), you'd still be loyal and I hope everyone would still feel like TMA is their home, and not orchestrate a walkout. It's sad it has come to this. I've assured you 2.0 is still coming, but that's not enough. I was mistaken to think it was. Night must also be greatly out of touch aswell because neither of us predicted this fallout. I underestimated the strength of your hate for HB. That ship has only sailed if you're on it. Sounds like you were on it starting exactly 3 weeks ago.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/26/13 at 02:20:27
@Roket

Long time no talk. A realist, thank you. At least someone is still loyal to TMA.

@RoaDiE

It's just amazing that Rabid somehow managed to avoid me for that first year (when pretty much everyone was just playing DM/relics/unlim), I played every day for months. I mean we were good friends back then too. I did come back years later (not exactly sure when but the server was still up) for a little stint when you guys were doing teams and Rabid played a few games then, but barely saw him. I know he played in those clans, that's when I went back to TM2pc because I just didn't care for clan matches (same with TMX). Reason I didn't think Rab was playing TMBO anywhere close to me is because he would have told me he was playing when he was online, because we were nearly always playing Zero Hour (that's why he signed on), over all else. Then the rest of the time we were playing TM2pc if AIC/JR/you were up for it. It was ZH, TM2, then a huge gap, then TMBO or whatever other game he might have played without me. Everyone talks about Rabid as being this TMBO god, seeing is believing. I wish he had let me see. I stand corrected.

I remember Vicente, there are guys like that even on TMX when you fire shit at them and nothing appears to hurt them, and then you die. I dunno how Rabid would combat that.

@XIZOR

Please stop rail-roading this topic with silly memes, take it to brawl. Oh SNAP!

@Obliverate

Harsh. Sorry I didn't know you either, don't take it personally.

@The_Dizaster_Child

Congrats on enduring the brawl hazing period, sorry you couldn't get my respect you so crazed. I know that every forum on the internet, every user expects and gets 100% attention and respect from the webmaster, especially if they get through the hazing. They knew each other on first name basis, but not at TMA because I'm on a high horse so high it's above the internets. So sorry I didn't know you either since I wasn't here. Also I never called you noobs. Reality checked.

BTW I never let HB off his leash, he was never on one. These theories some of you guys have are pure lunacy. HB does what HB wants, often on his own accord. You rile him up, you get a response.

@Zerathustra

Thanks for making me laugh, you are clearly a smart & funny guy and I'm not saying that with one ounce of sarcasm. This place isn't Cheers where everyone knows your name, I'm not the bartender.

@XIZOR

Speak for yourself. You're leaving why, because you're so butthurt? Kilrahi is leaving because he believes TM is dead and he never much cared for brawl either. Roadie is leaving because of everything. Some people are leaving because of HB staying, or the new rules, too much spam, or just because I have taken away the culture of brawl; which they've admitted was the only reason they ever stayed here to begin with. I'm not gonna fight to keep people here for everything but TM. You can take them elsewhere if they want to leave, but I'm not telling them to go, you're the ones leaving.

@Mecit

Sorry I wasn't timely enough, I just assumed people knew good things take time. Still wouldn't change the fact people hate HB, and they'd hate 2.0 with TMX being front & center. I'm not understanding your logic that Night isn't to blame for everything going wrong here, you can't say he gave you this place but it's not his fault he couldn't stop this HB problem happening here on his watch. I don't think it's fair to blame either of us actually, but that doesn't stop people blaming me, so with that logic I blame Night. Hey, this blame game is fun! The hypocrisy is monumental (disaster).

@The_Truth

I never gave HB permission to post in this topic, he was just restraining himself for his own good, but the bait got too strong and he bit. I don't control him, never did.

@XIZOR

Re: Your new site. Oh nice, so if this was in development 2-3 weeks ago, it meant all you guys were set on leaving anyway, and there was nothing I could have done or said to change it otherwise, and now everything you've said to this topic is just to justify your leaving. Nah, this doesn't look half as bad as when David Jaffe left ESP just before TMX came out. Such loyalty. Also, when your site is open to the public, please refrain from advertising it here on TT (especially not this topic), but Brawl is fine.

@DARKFORCE

I'd do all 3, but it seems like Xizor the union leader already had other plans to thwart that. Hellbent, look what you fucking did! EDIT: Hellbent just got suspended for rail-roading this topic, so that's 1/3. 2 & 3 now seem a whole lot easier.

@XIZOR

"The TMA name means almost nothing from Jaffe all the way down to the hardcore community."

That hurts. Do people really believe that? I think you're speaking for yourself again. It meant so much to you for 12 years but now suddenly nothing? Ok... it'll always mean more than you when it's in the special thanks 4 times. I don't know why you continue to keep attacking TMA, something you supposdely loved for so long. Then you use the crazy analogy that I'm like the dead beat father that beats his children and abandons them or some crap. How are you any different? You're being a total asshole to the TMA name with most things you've said.

UPDATE: Now that Hellbent is suspended, Night can just as easily rename Brawl back, we can revise the rules, and make those new forums that DARKFORCE suggested. Your move Xizor, are you really loyal to TMA or do you prefer your new role as union leader? Because clearly I've been a bad leader. But everyone else can speak for themselves, If no one comes back then clearly people have an issue with me and that's unfortunate. I never meant any ill-will on to people here, I always kept out of drama.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/26/13 at 02:46:17
I've just been told that I've upset a lot of the people I don't know, for not knowing their names, or what they contributed to this community. I'm sorry, but I just simply was not here to learn about who anyone was. It's just a fact. It doesn't mean I hate you all or don't care, it's just the simple fact I wasn't here to learn your names. Back on old TMA I remember everyones name, I could list 100 people. Infact while working on 2.0, I see their names all the time. None of them are these new people.

Let me make it clear: I appreciate new posters, that is how any site grow. I apologise if I come across like I'm just dismissing you or disrespecting you for all the time you've been here in my absense, I appreciate you keeping the site alive. I just simply don't know your names or anything about you, or your origin.

You can go to any website on the planet and it's highly unlikely the webmaster would ever know who you are, and I don't think anyone is taking offense from that, so please don't here. I will learn all your names in time, especially if you were still here on 2.0, because this is just a small community. I meant no disrespect, just stating facts. It's hard for me to remember so many people, that's why I don't let everyone be my friend on AIM like Xizor (laugh please).

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Skywalker on 03/26/13 at 10:15:39

XIZOR wrote on 03/26/13 at 01:10:58:
Just for the record, I was keeping that going as long as possible to prove my point (all of which has since been deleted so this won't really make sense to anyone but me and Kilrgrn).This is literally what every thread on TMA has devolved into over the last couple years; people having a discussion and then Hellbent coming in and derailing it with stupidity and personal attacks on other members until everyone just quits. I may have come off like a dick in this thread and honestly I don't really care because I have nothing to lose here and I've said what needs to be said.



I had a chance to read that shit last night before it got deleted. Entertaining to say the least.

I don't take personal info into account and usually forget it right away. I know some things were said but I forgot about who and what.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mecit on 03/26/13 at 10:44:28
Dear Mort,

TMA is the only community I've been part of, for that long. (Since July 2005, this year marks my 8th year on TMA -- Note that I had started using the internet in the last week of June 2005. Twisted Metal was one of the first things I googled and that's how I eventually found TMA). I'd still love to be part of TMA. I've been a member of a lot of community sites over the years but this place has always been a place for me to consider "home". I know I haven't contributed much to TMA and it contributed a lot to me. I made great friends on here and all. Hell, the site we moved to wouldn't even have existed if we didn't have TMA, in the first place.

I'm also well aware of the fact that I'm in no position to criticize you or anyone else. I respect you and your work. I respect TMA and whoever put effort to keep TMA running. (BTW, quite frankly, I don't see why you're getting flamed for taking Blair's money and letting him post in one thread, only. In your position, I'd do the same, too). I also want you to know that I personally never blamed you for the delay of TMA 2.0. I even defended you when you were called lazy in the TMA Status Update thread. I know creating a site from scratch is overwhelmingly time and effort consuming. So, calling you lazy is just obnoxious. That's probably the only thing I agree with Hellbent on. Though, you see, the real reason you're getting stormed by the posters is that you were never ever around that it looked like you didn't even care about TMA (or the community, to be more accurate), anymore. You cannot really blame people for thinking so. Now, you could say NightShade has always been in charge on this temp site but you know what, people were expecting a word from you, since you're the one who created TMA. No matter we're on the temp site or not, this is basically your reign as the creator, right? When we state this simple fact, Hellbent emerges and asks "is Mort your daddy?". Hellbent's behavior has been a great obstacle in the way of arguing things (mostly, TMA's situation) reasonably. I never thought I -or anyone else- would one day say that but you really did a huge favor to TMA by suspending Hellbent.



Quote:
The fact Temp TMA sprung up meant I was no longer rushing to get something up myself, so I could then instead spend more time making it a lot better... and better...


I'm a web designer and developer, myself (my area of expertise being PHP) and I completely understand what you mean. I know how it feels. You create something but then you think you can do something better. And then something better than that. You know, there's this funny thing with web development; there's no end to "better". You could work on a project for ten years and at the end, you'd still have quite a bunch of things to improve or get better. Not to mention the web technologies change with tremendous speed, every new day. What you write today might be considered obsolete, tomorrow.


Perfection has no limits.

Am I implying you just should do a sloppy job? No. Nor do I imply that you should haste things and launch the new site, already. However, you eventually need to decide on what's enough and be done with your project. You know, focus on what's necessary. Facebook, for example, provides thousands of features but 90% of people don't even use them or aren't even aware of them.


Finally, a few things on what happened to TMA and why it happened:

I'm not sure if you know about it, but TMA had one of its biggest brawls like two years ago in Night's "TMA Status Update" thread. It was not nice. Things have never been the same after that fiasco. I believe it was the breaking point for TMA. Everyone involved then is now to blame for what's going on. "Belligerents" (yes, it was a war) were far from being mature. A lot of good posters left or took a break. Apologies (can't say they were sincere ones since the same shit kept going on for about two years) were made later, but the damage had already been done. It was also when Hellbent decided to go down the path of "i'm gonna make TMA hell for you all".


So, Mort, your biggest mistake was to not step in when you were getting all smeared and the whole TMA was starting to dissolve day by day. Yes, you have a life and priorities which is perfectly understandable but giving a bit of feedback from time to time wouldn't be much of a bother, I do believe.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/26/13 at 11:45:15
For the record mind I don't know who deleted what HB wrote.

It wasn't me and I was at work last night so by the time I'd managed to check the post update it must have already gone?

I was asked to let this topic play out and I've been doing just that.

So I don't know what was said that was so bad to have another admin (webmaster?) step in.

It definitely seems to be getting worse for all parties involved so if at any point I'm meant to step back in please do say someone...

Still been one helluva read though ;)

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/26/13 at 18:25:28
“So you believe HB, the compulsive liar? You contradict so much of what you say. On one hand I'm not supposed to believe HB, or do, and you do, but don't, or do, I can't keep track when to believe HB. Why would anyone believe anything he says coming from me? If I have something to say, I say it; I don't say it through HB, or P7, or anyone. I never told him you would be banned for slandering TMX, besides, you didn't do that and you moved on, proving him wrong and you gullible. So if HB tried to threaten you something, using my name, like you used my name to attack him (that we are fuck buddies or something), it's all the same thing right?”

You have a point there I’ll give you that. However, there was another reason why I was inclined to believe this was true at the time other than just Hellbent’s word but that was at least a year ago and I can’t remember what it was now.

“So you're just bitter that I'm not your friend like I am other people here. I get that, but that's more a problem with you and not me. I can't force myself to be everyones friend, that would be disingenuous. Clearly you're cool enough to be a lot of peoples friends, but it's been a long bug up your butt that you aren't mine.”

Honestly I’m really not butthurt about you not being my friend at all. If you were cool, we would have already been friends because I’m friends with everyone at TMA that’s cool. You’re friends with Hellbent so clearly you don’t have good taste in friends so it all makes sense that because I’m super fucking awesome we wouldn’t be friends.

OOOOOOOH SNAP!

“You never saw the old TMA, it had boards for mods & admins, and you'd have been a part of that. But oh well.”

I’m guessing you mean the back end of the site because obviously I’ve seen old TMA. You mean I could’ve hung out in the VIP section? Awww Mort, that’s so sweet. Just make sure and buy me a drink before you frisk me.

“I handled everything on old TMA, Night was supposed to handle everything here. Did I do anything majorly wrong on old TMA? You cite some things, but nothing major. If your main problem is what happened here, it does fall on Night. But he clearly did not have the time for it, neither did I. The mistake clearly was that we did not put you in charge of things, so we'll both take full responsibility there. But seriously, if I did give you updates on 2.0, would that make you hate HB any less? Would that really change anything? You guys still wouldn't have liked TMX, you still wouldn't have wanted to play 360/PS3 games with him anymore. After all, he became a terrible person over the last 2 years, and that's Temp TMA.”

Well, we knew Nightshade was sort of in charge here, obviously, but we always thought you were still calling the shots behind the scenes. Maybe if you would have MADE THAT CLEAR LIKE EVERYTHINGE ELSE YOU CHOSE TO TELL US FOUR YEARS LATER THERE WOULDN’T BE A PROBLEM NOW WOULD THERE?! So its Nightshades fault then, fine. FUCK YOU NIGHTSHADE YOU FUCKING LOSER! Is that better?

All joking aside, Nightshade has always been super approachable and understanding of how everyone feels and what they want and why. Maybe he can teach you how that works.

“I've been friends with HB since 2001, and I never read anything he posted on Brawl (and barely anything on TT because he didn't usually post on TM forums). You want me to correct everything he says?”

> I never read anything he posted on Brawl (and barely anything on TT because he didn't usually post on TM forums
> because he didn't usually post on TM forums

Finally! You confirm that he doesn’t know shit about TM. Thank you. Was that so hard?

No one man or woman has the time in his or her life to correct every stupid thing he says. You would need to hire an entire staff to try and handle that, and even then it would still be an insurmountable task. But you had to have seen some of the retardation coming from his replies and the simple notion that you, his friend, would call him out on his bullshit every now and again, would probably go a long way towards putting him in his place. You seem like you’d rather just ignore it and claim ignorance because you’re his friend. Whether that’s true or not, that’s what it seems like.

“I correct him on AIM when he says things wrong, but it doesn't stop him posting his opinions. I can't control him”

You mean the Webmaster doesn’t even have a ban or delete account button? Nightshade what the fuck dude, get this man a ban button please!

“It must really get under your goat that he's my friend and not you.”

I don’t have a goat but if I did I sure as hell wouldn’t let him lay on top of either of you.

“What can I possibly see in the guy? I don't know, he's funny, and under all that bravado is a real person (that you probably don't see on TMA)”

You seem to think that I don’t know the dude after ten years. What do I know? I know that underneath the Hellbent persona is a dude who can actually be funny and cool sometimes but the comedy is just a way to try and get people to like him because he’s really a sad, depressed, lonely dude who has no real friends where he lives so he clings to TMA for attention and acceptance. I’m no psychiatrist but I don’t need to be to see that. How many women who’ve come to TMA has he “fallen in love with”? Answer: all of them. Yeah, that’s sad. I’d almost feel bad for the guy but given his behavior towards all my friends and me I have no fucking sympathy for him.

“You don't think that was a good deal, the Blair thing? 3 months hosting, so he can have his own post that no one has to post in, the only post HE is allowed to post in. Controlled chaos, and you get 3 more months of great times with your best friends on TMA. If you want your own topic (you can have them for free btw), I'll give you one for just $100! So unless you donate $300 so Blair can't have that topic, you really can't talk. I put it out there many times we needed donations, and you aren't a stupid guy right? You can see the sidebar donation tallies, you can see how things don't add up. I try to help the site stay online by giving Blair his silly post, and it's "buying in". Ok... whatever, I'm the bad guy. But I do take full responsibility for that decision.”

I’m half way busting your balls on that one. Would I have done the same thing? Probably not. I’m of the mind of getting rid of worthless trash that brings down the entire site and community. But, I can see why you’d take free money. If I give you 300 dollars will you permanently ban Hellbent? Smell that cash Mort. You know you want it.

"You aren’t special aside from the fact that you can code and build cool as fuck websites"

“Ah that's hilarious, thanks for that back-handed compliment. I hope one day you get to see what I'm working on and DO think I'm special. I'm losing sleep at the moment, it would really help.”

I have no doubts it will be an epic website. I hope I can post there from my retirement home one day when you finally get the site done while I bounce my great grandson on my knee and tell him about the great TMA wars.

"I do hope one day to have my name in the credits of a video game though. You’ve really inspired me to reach for the stars. I hope to one day be as cool as you are."

“You're a funny guy. Hey, I also think HB is a funny guy. How do I choose?”

Most people just choose me, but everyone makes bad decisions in life. We all learn from our mistakes.

"Because it hadn’t gotten that bad at that point, and to be honest, a lot of us were acting like jerks so banning one person when I myself and others were doing the same thing isn’t the answer."

“This is what HB spins to me, that you guys do the exact same things he did and does, but you want him banned for it.”

I was completely to blame for my part in what is referred to now as “The Great War of TMA”. I apologized and moved on, Hellbent did not.

“It does look bad that HB was indeed the GhostMod”

Glad you can admit that. When are you gonna make Blair a ghostmod?

“It was simply a case of people complaining to me that Brawl was full of spam (this was a few weeks ago), and HB offered to clean up all the spam and I saw GhostMod as the best option.”

I would have probably went with, oh, any other option on the planet but again, we all make mistakes. I would take 100,000 spam bots over Hellbent any day. Those can be deleted, Hellbent apparently cannot be.

"The TMA name means almost nothing from Jaffe all the way down to the hardcore community."

“That hurts. Do people really believe that?”

Sorry, that comment was made spur of the moment to further entice Hellbent to reply with more bullshit. I didn’t really mean that. Obviously TMA means a lot to a lot of people otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I apologize for that.

By the way, I know you saw all that because you’ve taken quotes from my replies that are no longer there. So, did you see how Hellbent acts first hand now? Do you see? DO YOU SEE?

“I think you're speaking for yourself again”

Some of the things I say I am only speaking for myself, but as far as the bigger issues I’m speaking for lots of people and some of those people have expressed those same thoughts and concerns in this thread as well so you have to know that my words carry actual weight beyond just my own opinion.

“Your new site. Oh nice, so if this was in development 2-3 weeks ago, it meant all you guys were set on leaving anyway, and there was nothing I could have done or said to change it otherwise, and now everything you've said to this topic is just to justify your leaving..”

First off its not MY new site, its OUR new site. No one claims ownership of anything. It’s a democracy, not a dictatorship like apparently TMA is now. When are you gonna update the banner with pictures of Hitler and swastikas?

Yes, the site was underway before you made this post and we were all unsure about whether leaving was a good idea but this thread seems to have solidified it for many of us. That site was made purely to get away from Hellbent since clearly no one here was going take care of that problem so it wasn’t about getting away from you. Just thought I’d clear that up.

“Nah, this doesn't look half as bad as when David Jaffe left ESP just before TMX came out.”

Leave what exactly? They sure as shit never posted here, even back when everyone was friendly and excited for TMX. I think maybe you should reevaluate whether ESP and Jaffe were ever loyal to this site pre-TMX launch. We tried to get them to come here forever, but they were always too good for that.

“Now that Hellbent is suspended, Night can just as easily rename Brawl back, we can revise the rules, and make those new forums that DARKFORCE suggested. Your move Xizor, are you really loyal to TMA or do you prefer your new role as union leader?

I have to admit. I do like being the public face of the TMA rebellion. I can get use to this leadership thing. I seem to be pretty good at it. Maybe I can be Governor of TMA? Moses of TMA? I can reach across the isle and bring our two parties together.

“If no one comes back then clearly people have an issue with me and that's unfortunate. I never meant any ill-will on to people here, I always kept out of drama.”

I think we’re just gonna post up elsewhere for the time being and then when 2.0 rolls around we’ll see what’s up. I can’t speak for everyone though. Clearly anyone is free to post here or there but I think that maybe this community needs some time to heal. This place has been toxic for a while now and we all need to breathe some fresh air. Some of us will still be around from time to time but its really just depressing being here for the most part. None of us want this but until things can be put back in order I think this is for the best. I will say though, that no one will come back here as long as Hellbent has anything to do with this place. I think we can all put aside our feelings about how you’ve chosen to run, or not run, this website in the past, but again, I can’t speak for everyone. We will not stand for any more bullshit from Hellbent though.

“I still need help getting 2.0 ready, the problem is most of it is tedious tasks (e.g. databasing all the awards), which I have asked other people but they turned down. People not even in my all-elusive inner-circle. If you really care so much about TMA (and you clearly do else you would have gone ages ago), you'd still be loyal and I hope everyone would still feel like TMA is their home, and not orchestrate a walkout. It's sad it has come to this. I've assured you 2.0 is still coming, but that's not enough. I was mistaken to think it was. Night must also be greatly out of touch aswell because neither of us predicted this fallout. I underestimated the strength of your hate for HB. That ship has only sailed if you're on it. Sounds like you were on it starting exactly 3 weeks ago.”

I’d be down with helping archive TMA just because that would be in service to the history of TMA, which I was a part of a lot of it, and to its community. I’ll get in touch with you on AIM or something.

XIZORTMA: hi Mort it’s XIZOR
Mortimizer2000:
XIZORTMA: Mort, hey its me, what’s up dude
Mortimizer2000:
XIZORTMA: Mort you there?
Mortimizer2000:
XIZORTMA: Can we be friends dude?
Mortimizer2000:
XIZORTMA: Guess I’ll try back next year.
Mortimizer2000:

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/26/13 at 20:10:50

Mortimer wrote on 03/26/13 at 02:20:27:

@The_Dizaster_Child

Congrats on enduring the brawl hazing period, sorry you couldn't get my respect you so crazed. I know that every forum on the internet, every user expects and gets 100% attention and respect from the webmaster, especially if they get through the hazing. They knew each other on first name basis, but not at TMA because I'm on a high horse so high it's above the internets. So sorry I didn't know you either since I wasn't here. Also I never called you noobs. Reality checked.


See, this is where you'e completely in your own little world. I've never craved yours, or anyone's respect or attention on any internet forum. Ever. If that was the case, I'd have hung myself years ago since Dave, the guy who built The J-Body Organization (car enthusiast forum) has yet to know my name after 13 years of membership. And get this, he's an active member of his own site! I just don't worry about shit like that. Enduring the harshness was for me, since looking through old threads made it apparent that that's just how Brawl went. It had zero to do with you. I mean fuck, looking through those old threads, I don't recall even seeing a post from you, which told me that you just ran the place, didn't participate. Saying what you said made you look like a condescending douche canoe, and don't think I'm the only one who noticed. The good thing about it, though, is that you obviously think it hurt my feelings or something. It just tells me the kind of person you really are. Honestly, I preferred you when you were just a name.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/26/13 at 21:10:55
@mecit

You only got internet in 2005? Damn. It's nice to get some understanding from someone in the industry. I didn't know this big blowup happened 2 years ago? I thought it was a year ago, that's when it got so bad it got to me that staff was fighting and being disrespectful to me, so something had to be done. I did step in then, in the sense I talked about it with Night and we came to a resolution. It really just sounded silly all this drama going on in my absense (on brawl of all places /sarcasm), I hoped people would be more understanding of the fact my time is better spent working on 2.0. My biggest crime seems to be I didn't get it finished in time to nip all of this drama in the butt. And people getting angry at me for not updating the community, I admit that was wrong and I regret that now, but at the time I was in my own bubble; I was focused and determined to finish 2.0, for TMA, and in time for TMX and the influx of new people (little did I know the fallout coming my way). My friends could get that info from me and relay it here, the answer being, "I don't know when 2.0 will be ready, but I'm still working on it, and yes I still care about TM and TMA.".

People also assumed I wasn't interested in TMX because I wasn't posting about it, but I talked about it with my friends, however because I was in the loop now I could no longer post about it. I was super pumped for TMX, I was closely monitoring development, and working on 2.0. But because I never gave the community a heads-up, I'm now paying the price. I wrongly assumed people would be perfectly happy with Temp TMA, I know I was as it gave me more time to perfect 2.0. People like Roadie, Night, SolTakr, etc, all know I talk to Dave, and they know exactly what's up with me not posting, I told them why. You won't believe how much I knew about TMX before it came out, and how pumped I was. Keeping tight-lipped was hard. Little did I know of all the resentment that was brewing for me... it was disheartening to say the least.

@XIZOR

The basic gist of all your replies is everything I did wrong and how you would have done it better, endling in zingers. It's not exactly a fair argument because everything for you is hindsight 20/20 right. You don't think that comes across as obnoxious and arrogant? People like that are not usually my friends. One of your friends thinks you might just be trolling me and exaggerating everything (and that's why they don't defend me vs you), so silly me for thinking we were actually having a serious dialogue on some level (which you lacked with me elsewhere), but it's clearly gone off the rails. I thought I had more friends here, but apparently I don't as they're being awfully quiet and just letting you continue to roll. So I kinda feel like I was wasting my time replying to all your gripes and grievances, as if they were legit, as it sounds like you were already set in your ways and made up your mind on things long before I got here. Everything is just a laugh for you now and OH SNAPs.

I regret not updating the community what was going on, but I've already explained why and you can't accept my reasons. I was not pulling things behind the scenes, I didn't even have an account here. It's just endless assumptions, because I wasn't here and that is my fault to stop all those assumptions from even being made in the first place, but it's your fault if you're gonna act based on them without talking to me first or someone that does talk to me. A lot of your beef seems to be lack of communication between us, you feel I owed you that. What I wrongly assumed is people would be understanding of my position, especially my friends who can talk to me any day they like about anything. I like how you say Night was super approachable when he was never even barely here, just like me. But you got to play games with him? Well guess what, I played games with people too from here, you just weren't in that group. I barely ever even saw Night on AIM, because you know what? He was busy with his own life.

But I will say one more thing, and that's about again, the assumption that Dave doesn't or didn't care about us because he didn't post. I asked him exactly why that was, and here is why. He already has our support, we're gonna be in the special thanks. He spent his community time trying to get new people interested in TM, like gamefaqs, neogaf, his blog & twitter. He talked of doing exclusives with TMA. Do I think he should have posted here anyway just to say hi and give us some tidbits etc? Absolutely, but he didn't. But I can't talk. You can assume he didn't care about us, but he did, he put us in special thanks and dedicated a trophy to us (because we're hardcore!!!!!!!!!!!). He might also have been waiting for 2.0 before he posted, but that's just me speculating. Maybe he was intimidated by all you guys? Who knows.

I'd reply to everything else you said but clearly you're just taking the piss right now. Have fun at the Bastard Gaming Alliance. I like how you took the Alliance part, I see what you did there. Couldn't think of your own name? How about the Bastard Gaming Rebellion! Oooo, that sounds cool. I'm gonna register that domain right now...

Also, your convo is fake, I wouldn't have even replied with nothing. /zing

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/26/13 at 21:23:53

The Dizaster Child wrote on 03/26/13 at 20:10:50:
See, this is where you'e completely in your own little world. I've never craved yours, or anyone's respect or attention on any internet forum. Ever. If that was the case, I'd have hung myself years ago since Dave, the guy who built The J-Body Organization (car enthusiast forum) has yet to know my name after 13 years of membership. And get this, he's an active member of his own site! I just don't worry about shit like that. Enduring the harshness was for me, since looking through old threads made it apparent that that's just how Brawl went. It had zero to do with you. I mean fuck, looking through those old threads, I don't recall even seeing a post from you, which told me that you just ran the place, didn't participate. Saying what you said made you look like a condescending douche canoe, and don't think I'm the only one who noticed. The good thing about it, though, is that you obviously think it hurt my feelings or something. It just tells me the kind of person you really are. Honestly, I preferred you when you were just a name.


Don't read my apology then. Generally when people snap at you out of nowhere, they're mad/hurt at something you said. Didn't you complain about the fact I didn't know who you were, that you'd spent ages here and I didn't know your name? But now you say you didn't care about that (and listing an example why), but clearly you do because you snapped at me for it, and are judging me as a person based on what I've said. I apologised, if you can't accept it that's on you. I'd say more but it won't do any good as I'm a condescending douche canoe.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/27/13 at 02:43:05
No, I complained about what appears to be a complete lack of appreciation for Brawl, and the people who kept it rolling over the years. The fact that you dismissed me and Obliverate as a couple of new people that you couldn't even distinguish between the two didn't bother me like you seem to think, and my "snapping" at you must've come off more harsh than intended. All I've done is state facts that you clearly missed in your absence. Let me clarify here: I never expected or felt that 2.0 was owed to me, especially after the rest of the crew had been waiting a lot longer than I had. I never said you were lazy, or any of the other insults that got hurled at you. The only thing I might -MIGHT- have said was that I wouldn't hold my breath on TMA 2.0 ever coming to fruition if it hadn't already, especially after the TM2012 debacle. I honestly expected to be come here that day the game released, and finding a post saying that 2.0 had arrived. I found it odd when that never happened. I mean, you can't really blame or be pissed at me for not believing that we'd see 2.0. It wasn't a slight at you, or your work ethic. It was just me looking at reality.

That said, I can't and won't speak for anyone else involved, but I haven't taken anything you've said to heart, or personal. The thing that got me was that after years of hearing about the great Mort, the guy that built this place and led the rebellion against 989, makes a post like the one that kicked off this very thread. I'm in the same boat as the people that walked when it comes to how it was perceived. That it was a giant "fuck you for fucking everything up". First impressions are a motherfucker.

Oh, and The Truth.... In your reply that got deleted, you gave Hellbent way too much with grammar and spelling.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Luis on 03/27/13 at 03:11:23
Can someone post a link to the forum, that Xizor mentioned?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/27/13 at 09:07:42

Luis wrote on 03/27/13 at 03:11:23:
Can someone post a link to the forum, that Xizor mentioned?


Kilrgrn that's your cue to send him an invite, assuming he's cool enough for the BGA.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/27/13 at 09:33:51

The Dizaster Child wrote on 03/27/13 at 02:43:05:
No, I complained about what appears to be a complete lack of appreciation for Brawl, and the people who kept it rolling over the years. The fact that you dismissed me and Obliverate as a couple of new people that you couldn't even distinguish between the two didn't bother me like you seem to think, and my "snapping" at you must've come off more harsh than intended. All I've done is state facts that you clearly missed in your absence. Let me clarify here: I never expected or felt that 2.0 was owed to me, especially after the rest of the crew had been waiting a lot longer than I had. I never said you were lazy, or any of the other insults that got hurled at you. The only thing I might -MIGHT- have said was that I wouldn't hold my breath on TMA 2.0 ever coming to fruition if it hadn't already, especially after the TM2012 debacle. I honestly expected to be come here that day the game released, and finding a post saying that 2.0 had arrived. I found it odd when that never happened. I mean, you can't really blame or be pissed at me for not believing that we'd see 2.0. It wasn't a slight at you, or your work ethic. It was just me looking at reality.

That said, I can't and won't speak for anyone else involved, but I haven't taken anything you've said to heart, or personal. The thing that got me was that after years of hearing about the great Mort, the guy that built this place and led the rebellion against 989, makes a post like the one that kicked off this very thread. I'm in the same boat as the people that walked when it comes to how it was perceived. That it was a giant "fuck you for fucking everything up". First impressions are a motherfucker.

Oh, and The Truth.... In your reply that got deleted, you gave Hellbent way too much with grammar and spelling.


I did this topic that you object to so much 'after' the fact BGA was setup behind my back to be a replacement forum for Brawl (so you can all get away from HB). I consider that an act of betrayal and a stab in the back from people I thought were loyal not only to me, but TMA. It was just very convenient to blame my post or the new rules as to why you're leaving, or the fact HB hadn't been banned yet. Lets cut the BS for a minute here.

Now where did I blame you all for fucking up the place? You're blaming me, I've been read my rights and crucified for everything I apparently did wrong, fallen from grace (you said the same thing basically). Well guess what, I'm still the exact same person that started TMA, I'm no different now than I was back then. I didn't post on brawl then, and not often on TM forums. I kept away mostly, I was more likely playing TM2pc than being at TMA, or working on new features for TMA (or whole new TM sites that I was planning). I did lead the rebellion against 989 and won, and I'm proud of that, and no one can take that away from me.

Back on old TMA I was the ideas man, I came up with ways to improve the community. I came up with the commish idea, we had weekly awards on both TT and Brawl for the best posts to encourage everyone. We had many commishes over the years, I knew them all. X-Man, CodeMatt, Reaper, SolTakr, BrianEvol, Hellbent, -SCoLD-, Magnum, it was fun, and every week people looked forward to them. Once they retired they became Admins. If the commishes were late I'd get people IM'ing me "where are the awards?!". Sometimes we had guest commishes if the commish was too busy or needed a break. Brawls were my idea, the Brawl on the Wall name was my idea, belts were my idea, everything was my idea.

But if you want to base your whole opinion of me based on this topic (which lets be honest, you were leaving anyway), that really was just about dealing with a crisis (which is never easy), thanks a lot for your understanding and support. Don't forget the good times.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrgrn on 03/27/13 at 16:24:11

Mortimer wrote on 03/27/13 at 09:07:42:
Kilrgrn that's your cue to send him an invite, assuming he's cool enough for the BGA.



Why the fuck is it MY responsibility? Are we just taking more jabs at me now?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/27/13 at 17:56:58
Don't worry Nina, I've got it.

@Mort

Honestly I was throwing in jokes, zingers and snaps to try and lighten the mood a little bit and keep this from being super serious. I was messing with you a little bit and I thought that was crystal clear with me being so over the top in my last reply, but apparently that went right over your head. I forget that you don't know me as well as the rest of the community or my sense of humor.

Its unfortunate that this is our first real dialogue with each other and I know for a fact that we've gotten off on the wrong foot but anyone who knows me knows I always speak from the heart and say what I feel. I don't hold back to the point of being brutally honest and most importantly I'm almost entirely incapable of holding a grudge—well aside from Hellbent because our hatred for him runs deep—so don’t worry about me holding on to any ill feelings towards you. I’m all about squashing shit and getting on with things.

Even though I may seem harsh on you, I respect your views and you've made a fair argument for yourself for the most part but you've said enough little things that hint at what we've all felt for a while now was true about you. You can't just give vague explanations for things now and expect all to be well. And to be honest, you can give us all the explanations you want but it doesn't dismiss years of complete absence. Unless you had cancer, 200 dogs died, your house was hit be a meteor and the subsequent cosmic radiation caused you to not have internet access for months and even years at a time there really is no good excuse that covers it all.

Its been told to me on a few occasions that while you respect that the Brawl crowd exists and comes here that you aren’t concerned with it or the people that come to TMA for that reason. Your actions and words so far have shown that to be true. That’s fine, this is your house so you can run it however you like, but clearly the Brawl crowd makes up the core of this community and I’m going where my friends go because they are more important to me than any one forum. The new people who only come to TMA for TM come and go and they are important as well, but they would probably post on any TM fansite that was available. The people, who actually care about TMA as a community, come and stay here.

I'm sure you think I'm a huge fucking asshole, backstabber, showboat, traitor, deserter, or whatever else but to be completely honest I'm almost none of those things. Just ask anyone who really knows me and they will tell you I'm one of the nicest, coolest motherfuckers here. I know Roadie is one of your good friends and it just so happens that he is one of my best friends in the entire world as well. He is like a brother to me. Surely he's told you what kind of person and friend I really am.

My most valuable trait though, is my loyalty. And I've always been loyal to TMA and this community for a long time. When it comes to my friends I will do anything for them and while I can be a dick on occasion people trust me and take me at my word. When I say I'm going to do something I always do it. Always. I'm not even really the "leader" of our group, just the most vocal and the most proactive in bringing everyone together. It goes to show how much people trust in me that I could ask 30 plus members of this site to follow me to some place better and they chose to without question. That’s the kind of good faith I’ve established with the TMA community and they all know I will look out for them, tend to their needs, and treat them with respect. They know they can always come to me for anything.

Not trying to sound mean, but you don’t have that kind of credibility any more. Almost no one here knows anything about you or if you’ll be around tomorrow or when he or she really needs you. I still have some faith and respect for you because I was around back when you were active at TMA so I know deep down you do care. But to a lot of these new posters who weren’t around back then but have been at TMA for the last five or six years, you don’t have that type of credibility with them and you should understand that that isn’t their fault. That type of respect is earned. You can always pull the “you will respect me because this is my site and I’m the webmaster” but I’d like to think you wouldn’t want to be that type of leader.

Now, don't misinterpret this as me bragging, gloating, or trying to act like I'm someone uniquely special who has done something no one else here could do, but my passion for this community clearly rises above yours. Like you said in your last reply, no one seems to be coming to your rescue here. That's not anyone's fault but your own. And I'm not saying that to make you feel bad or to continue to drive the point home but its the truth man. A lot of the really old members do respect you in some form but you've done almost nothing in the last five years to give anyone a strong reason to rally behind you.

We didn't leave TMA to get away from you. We left TMA to get away from Hellbent. We don't want Hellbent lite or Hellbent on a leash or even Hellbent as a ghostmod. We want Hellbent gone and it was more respectful to just leave than derail every thread on this site screaming at him and everyone else for a ban, especially when our voices weren't being heard. That was just bringing the site down even more.

Its true that lots of people had/have the power to do it but it just wasn't happening. There always seems to be a lot of miscommunication between mods, admins, and webmasters here that doesn't help either. No one ever seems to really know what's going on or what they should be doing. Every one in power was afraid to ban HB because they still saw this as your house Mort. Everyone knew Hellbent was your friend and therefore it was pointless to ask for a ban because you either wouldn't allow it or they would have to live with the consequences from you for doing it. Bottom line, they still respected you Mort.

But even when we bring it up to you now that we have your attention, you chose to just enforce silly rules that shouldn't apply to every board, and then further spit in our face by disgracing our home and changing the name of Brawl on the Wall to General Discussion, losing lots of long running threads in the process, and then make him a ghostmod as a final slap in the face that really showed that Hellbent will always be inescapable unless we go elsewhere. The spam bot problem really sucks and should be dealt with but that, to me, is the least of the problems.

I think we've both made our cases at this point and I'm totally down to continue the discussion in a more appropriate manner or outside a public forum if that's what you'd like but I kind of feel like its approaching the point where its just the two of us beating dead horses.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by NightShade on 03/27/13 at 21:21:15
Sorry Arch, didn't mean to give you mixed signals. I do think we should let people get whatever they need to out of their systems in this thread, but when it's just somebody spamming personal insults and stirring shit, I gotta step in (though Mosh technically beat me to the punch, ha). Anyway, there has to be a line somewhere.

I don't think I was ever really able to explain the Brawl rules. They were put in place for situations just like this. We saw people were behaving in a way that was disruptive to the community, so we made rules to outlaw that behavior. It didn't matter if the person continued to behave the same way after that, because they would be suspended, and it would be their fault, and they would know it.

There seems to be a general consensus that the rest of the community that is not acting out is somehow being "punished". No, that's not the case at all. We are just outlawing the behavior that is causing such grief. In this case, HB broke the rules, he knows he broke the rules, and he got suspended. The system works!


Ripzsaur wrote on 03/21/13 at 19:27:02:
Would the government change the laws in place to control the likes of one person? Not in the ideal society they wouldn't.

I feel like this is a perfect example of the misunderstanding here. If this one person's behavior exposed a gap in the government's laws, hell yes they would put new laws in place. There is no reason it needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis. If somebody else did the same shit and was disrupting the community in the same way, we would want to stop that too - and if they were being bad enough for us to do that, you all would WANT us to step in, as evidenced by the fact that you all wanted HB gone. It's not to punish people that are having routine disagreements, or are goofing around, or whatever - it's a nuclear option for when there clearly needs to be intervention. It's not changing the tone, it's not PG, it's not any of that. It's a way to keep order when everybody agrees things have gotten out of hand. If it makes you feel any better, yes, there was a particular trigger that this was set in motion to address. But it wasn't JUST for that, and why would it be? Why not make sure it never happens again while we're at it? I don't know how to make this any more clear.

I won't speak to the "Ghost Mod" situation, as I was not consulted on the decision to put that in place, but I will tell you that when I suspended HB, I also revoked all privileges of the Ghost Mod and suspended that account as well - which was coming anyway because I recently discovered that those deleted threads were lost due not to the renaming of the board, but to an accident made by the Ghost Mod when deleting spam. So, of course, we could rename Brawl back, but I still don't really understand why people want it to be called that outside of nostalgia.

If everybody is leaving anyway, I don't see why it's worth the trouble, but since those critical threads are lost anyway, we could always re-build Temp TMA on a different platform, one that doesn't have bugs and spambots and other shit. I didn't do a lot of research when I put this together, it was a stop-gap measure for what I thought was going to be weeks or months. But now we know we have at least another year of this left, so if enough people want to stick around, that's always an option.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by joe twisted on 03/27/13 at 22:20:46
For what it's worth I'll be sticking around.  I've never been a huge poster I just kinda pop in when I have something to say or something interests me, but I still want to be here.  

I think people consider this community family, and while that is certainly great it also comes with the negatives of how you treat family.  Things are taken more personal (which is very evident in this thread) when it may not have been meant that way.  Certain things annoy you more with family than if it was just a random person, and I think y'all get the analogy.  I do agree the community needs some time to heal, and just as you would with family, a little separation is good and then we find something to bring us back together.

I clearly look at this a little differently than most, since I didn't think any of the comments in the TMA status thread were personally attacking Mort.  To me it was just HB and P7 throwing out Mort's name as the high and mighty and people saying "fuck that."  In the same way 2 kids arguing and one could say "my dad would beat your dad up" and the other responding "fuck your dad he's a pussy."  lol maybe that's not the best analogy but that was how I saw it, the comments were aimed at HB and P7 and not meant to personally attack Mort.

I'm rambling at this point, but my hope is that we all come back together at some point because this community is special and everyone that's been a part of it knows it.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by DARKFORCE on 03/27/13 at 23:26:49

NightShade wrote on 03/27/13 at 21:21:15:
If everybody is leaving anyway, I don't see why it's worth the trouble, but since those critical threads are lost anyway, we could always re-build Temp TMA on a different platform, one that doesn't have bugs and spambots and other shit. I didn't do a lot of research when I put this together, it was a stop-gap measure for what I thought was going to be weeks or months. But now we know we have at least another year of this left, so if enough people want to stick around, that's always an option.


I was going to suggest that earlier (re-building temp TMA), but I didn't know if you guys wanted to go through the trouble. Now is probably the best time, as the activity on the site is low and there are hardly any active members.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/28/13 at 02:52:45
@XIZOR

I don't know you, so I don't know you're just 'joking around' with me, it just appears you're being disrespectful and taking the mickey out of everything after I tried to explain myself and answer all your questions and opinions/assumptions. On one hand you say you don't hold a grudge, but then on the other hand you helped lead a rebellion out of this site. You say that was against HB, but it is against TMA. I don't see that as loyalty on any level but to your own self-interests. But we can continue to beat around the bush and pretend otherwise, that everything is just and right.

For what it's worth, Roadie has not told me anything good about you, but then he says what I see of you isn't the real you. Sounds familar, isn't that what I say about HB?

This is TMA, the community is hearted by TM fans. You get 30+ of them to walkout and go to greener pastures, that is not showing loyalty to TMA, that's serving your own interests. Those people leaving are not leaving because they're being loyal to TMA, they're being loyal to you. You want to point out all the wrong decisions I made in the past, when I made the right decision this time around, but you guys left before it worked. Hellbent is now gone, but so is everyone. Thanks again for your loyalty.

It's pretty obvious why no one is coming to my rescue. I'm pro TMX, pro TM side of TMA, and you are pro brawl, and everyone else that is still here and stayed is mostly pro brawl also, because as you've all admitted that's what keeps you around. I get it. TMX support is at an all-time low, so you guys way outnumber the TM side of things here, especially with TM appearing to be dead in the water. If the situation was reversed and TMX was super popular, then you probably wouldn't be getting rescued either.

Sam Simon is dying of terminal cancer. He was one of the main guys behind The Simpsons in the first few seasons before he left, but continued to remain highly credited in the show, despite doing absolutely nothing for 20+ seasons. I do more than nothing for TMA over the last 5 years (does working on 2.0 count for nothing? does playing tm2pc count for nothing? does archiving the old TMA count for nothing? does databasing all the things you loved count for nothing?), so I expected a little more respect from people EVEN IF they didn't know who I was. It was on me for not giving updates, I accept that, but it was on you for how you acted based on me not appearing to be doing anything, and how you let it be ok for all the new people to act that way aswell. Against popular opinion I don't actually want to rule this place with an iron fist.

Finally, again, it wasn't my idea to rename Brawl for the new rules. I do have a new name for Brawl on 2.0 (it's an in-joke), and Brawl is still in the archive in all its glory. Way back to 2001. I do understand how important brawl is, but I'm the webmaster, I'm Mort, this is TWISTED METAL ALLIANCE. My priorities always have to be Twisted Metal. Don't you get that? I don't know why people find that so bizarre I never got involved in brawl. I'm sorry for the lack of updates, I just thought I had at least earnt some level of understanding. Not necessarily from new people, but from you guys, the vets from old TMA. They aren't all here today.

BTW, what exactly will be special about BGA? No Hellbent? What does it have to do with all of you being TM fans coming from TMA? I fail to see any loyalty here to TMA. Your passion for the brawl community clearly rises above mine, I won't disagree with you there, but my passion for the TM community is way more than yours. You know they are seperate, I know they're seperate. TM fans come & go, brawlers stay forever. I get that, why I never had a problem keeping the place. I just had no personal interest or investment in it for the last 5 years, and a lot of people take offense to that. It's not personal, it's the fact Twisted Metal has and will always come first to me.

@NightShade

I admit I fucked up with GhostMod, even if just for the fact he deleted a bunch of sticky topics by accident. We had talked in great detail before I posted the State of Alliance address, neither of us saw this walkout coming. The new rules did work, and I'm still the bad guy. Welcome to my world!

@joe_twisted

Thank you. Nice to know there is still some loyalty here. I hate all these stupid arguments, and that's partly why I kept away from brawl. It's just not me, but it's always been like that. It's unfortunate nearly everyone has up and left over 1 poster they couldn't get along with or be friends with. I expected too much.

@DARKFORCE

We need to look into some solution to get rid of all the spam accounts, now seems to be the best time with everyone gone. I was thinking of shutting down brawl since that is hit the hardest and no one posts or mods there anymore, but then what if the rebels want to return? They got nowhere to go, and I'll get crucified again for not caring.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Manta Ray on 03/28/13 at 06:19:41
You didn't meet a deadline, a year later: still nothing. That's the story of TMA right now. Shit or get off the pot, man.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/28/13 at 10:12:31
Night:

I felt in my opinion at least that things were getting pretty personal much earlier in the post (and I voiced that).

So have no idea when the venting stops and line has truly been crossed...

The whole thing from the start has been a near constant barrage against Mort with the same stuff repeated over and over.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by joe twisted on 03/28/13 at 14:37:52
Mort I don't think it's so much a loyalty to TMA vs a loyalty to Xizor, it was bred out of a loyalty to each other. You talk about HB being just one poster causing this, and it may not seem like such a big deal on the surface but you can see by the result how big and deep rooted the issue was. It's not 30 people choosing Xizor over you or TMA, it's escaping a cancer that ruined friendships, relationships, and the entire atmosphere of this site.

I happen to think you do care and I in no way have any ill will toward you, in fact out of everyone I actually had no real issue with how you handled things. Ofcourse updates could've alleviated some of this, but there would always have been drama.

Anyways, you're doing the right thing and I think that will go a long way to rebuilding the community. As they say ... Time heals all wounds

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Luis on 03/28/13 at 15:36:45
Why not release 2.0 now? What stuff is it missing? You mentioned it has a lot of features, but all I care about is the TM games having their own sections.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrgrn on 03/28/13 at 16:17:19
"This is TMA, the community is hearted by TM fans. You get 30+ of them to walkout and go to greener pastures, that is not showing loyalty to TMA, that's serving your own interests. Those people leaving are not leaving because they're being loyal to TMA, they're being loyal to you. You want to point out all the wrong decisions I made in the past, when I made the right decision this time around, but you guys left before it worked. Hellbent is now gone, but so is everyone. Thanks again for your loyalty." - Mort

I left because of HB. They made a site HB free with all the same people I know and loved so it had nothing to do with TMA.

And HB is not gone for good. It might be nice right now, but I don't want to be here when he comes back.

"I felt in my opinion at least that things were getting pretty personal much earlier in the post (and I voiced that).

So have no idea when the venting stops and line has truly been crossed...

The whole thing from the start has been a near constant barrage against Mort with the same stuff repeated over and over. " - Arch

The personal attacks against Mortimer were not as mean-spirited, serious, and severe as what was deleted from the thread. But ofc you didn't see it.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/28/13 at 17:21:38
@Mort

“I don't know you, so I don't know you're just 'joking around' with me, it just appears you're being disrespectful and taking the mickey out of everything”

Then lets fix that. Either you hit me up on AIM or I’ll hit you up sometime this week and lets talk this out outside of TMA. The only time I’m not available is if I’m at work or asleep.

“On one hand you say you don't hold a grudge, but then on the other hand you helped lead a rebellion out of this site. You say that was against HB, but it is against TMA. I don't see that as loyalty on any level but to your own self-interests. But we can continue to beat around the bush and pretend otherwise, that everything is just and right.

This is TMA, the community is hearted by TM fans. You get 30+ of them to walkout and go to greener pastures, that is not showing loyalty to TMA, that's serving your own interests. Those people leaving are not leaving because they're being loyal to TMA, they're being loyal to you. You want to point out all the wrong decisions I made in the past, when I made the right decision this time around, but you guys left before it worked. Hellbent is now gone, but so is everyone. Thanks again for your loyalty.”

Re-read Joe Twisted’s reply on this subject because that’s the actual truth of the matter. If the purpose of us leaving and my loyalty to TMA wasn’t clear in my last reply, I don’t need to make another wall of text explaining the same thing. If a majority of us aren’t really playing TMX or talking about TM at this point, which we’ve all done to death over the last decade and most people don’t have anything new or interesting to add at this point, then why do you even care if we leave to go somewhere else if we weren’t contributing anything to discussions or the website?

I am loyal to TMA. I’m still here aren’t I? I haven’t deleted my account and left have I? Did you forget the part where I offered to help you do anything you needed for 2.0? I think you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement at this point. I understand that people leaving has probably hurt your feelings and I completely understand but maybe that is getting in the way of you understanding our side of the argument.

“BTW, what exactly will be special about BGA? No Hellbent? What does it have to do with all of you being TM fans coming from TMA? I fail to see any loyalty here to TMA. Your passion for the brawl community clearly rises above mine, I won't disagree with you there, but my passion for the TM community is way more than yours. You know they are seperate, I know they're seperate. TM fans come & go, brawlers stay forever. I get that, why I never had a problem keeping the place. I just had no personal interest or investment in it for the last 5 years, and a lot of people take offense to that. It's not personal, it's the fact Twisted Metal has and will always come first to me.”

Well, it’s probably not going to be called BGA or Bastards Gaming Alliance now because apparently you think you are the only person on the internet entitled to having the word “alliance” in the title of their website and either asked P7 to change it or guilted him into it.

But yeah, no Hellbent is a start and that alone makes a world of difference, let me tell you. What does it have to do with us being TM fans coming from TMA you ask? Well, that’s our roots but that isn’t necessarily what defines us at this point. It’s just a place for friends to hangout and talk about cool shit on our own terms really. Again, if we are just going to be viewed as the redheaded step child of TMA, the lesser important half, then why do you care if we leave or not? At least over there we get to make the rules and call the shots and there is complete transparency about what is going on, the direction we want to go in, and we all have a clear purpose and place there. It’s not going to be run like TMA has been where no one knows what the fuck they are supposed to be doing and all the admins and mods are just doing a bunch of politic-ing and decision making behind the scenes while having no clue what the community actually wants.

You and I and a few others obviously disagree about how TMA is run and handled and that’s fine with me and both parties should just respect that. But since this is your site you’re allowed to call the shots so why not just let us go do things our way at our site? Please stop taking it personal. TMA should in theory be a TM fansite only and that’s fine. I really do not disagree with you on that, but that isn’t what its become so those of us that come here for something other than just TM want to have a place that suits those needs. When and if you get 2.0 up and running and there is another TM game, I’m sure we’ll all be back here in full force but until that time just let everyone heal, figure things out, and get out of this toxic cloud hanging above our heads.  

I really don’t think the back and forth replies are accomplishing anything at this point. Please feel free to message me on AIM. I’m really not an asshole and I’m very approachable. I’ll be more than happy to try and squash this and see your side of things if you will show me the same respect.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by JobJob on 03/28/13 at 23:47:07
Just like to say that you TMA is great place. A lot of like minded people brought together by a game they love.

Mort I don't know you but I respect the hell out of ya, the time you have spent on this site, and the time you have spent for the betterment of Twisted Metal is greatly appreciated. This is coming from someone outside of the TMA community.

While I will say that TM:PS3 was not what we all expected and came with many disappointments. The fact remains that if it wasn't for TMA I don't think this game would of even been made. While it was a shame that the game wasn't embraced by the TMA community, but also for good reasons. It is a shame that this game wasn't really supported past release. That has more to do with Sony then with Jaffe. and to be honest I think we all should be thankful for the efforts that Jaffe put into the game even after being off of Sony's Payroll.

Jaffe might not look at the community as whole with the same light, but I still believe he has respect for you individual Mort. How can he not.  You can not judge 1 person by the actions of a community. Just like you as 1 person can not control a community.

I will still continue to read up on the activity of your site. I look forward to seeing, if you ever decide to release it, TMA 2.0.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/29/13 at 01:23:19
@Manta_Ray

You're clearly trolling. There was never a deadline, TMA has always been a hobby for me. Do you have hobbies? Do you have a life too? Give me a break and get back under that bridge, or bring back TMS from the dead or something and that can be my pot.

@Joe_Twisted

I don't actually believe Xizor has control of 30 people, I'm just playing devil's advocate and just going with that as if it was truth since he says it with such pride; I'm entertaining his reality for arguments sake. Clearly those people left to get away from HB, it was planned weeks ago. I understand now that HB was this huge cancer, but because no one ever banned him I never truly believed that (and I never read brawl). Actions speak louder than words. Now I know what went down, and why no one banned him. I really had to get involved because it would only stop once I do. Thanks for the support through all this.

@Luis

2.0 can't be completed until Project X is completed. Making TM sections, that's the easy part. Project X is all about features, even if you don't care or need half of them, they will make 2.0 a lot better for those that do.

@Kilrgrn

HB is suspended indefinitely until 2.0. Then he'll be on probation, and everyone is free to put him on their ignore list and you'll never see his name or posts on the site. I would hope in this time HB can repair all his old friendships, or make new friends and not bother the people on 2.0 he doesn't like. As I said, he'll be on probation on 2.0. But once he proves he's harmless he can be a free man again, the same right I would give any other poster. Butif he fucks up again, he'll just get banned. I've always given people chance, I'd give everyone a chance after they make a mistake.

@XIZOR

I do have an issue with your definition of loyalty. Yes, you're still here now, but I assumed you were going to delete your account once our dialogue had ended. SynthR did, Kilrahi did, lots of people that left for BGA did right? I don't see how just because TM discussion is no longer interesting for anyone, that you should just all up and leave to a new general discussion forum, when you already have that with brawl. You were all leaving weeks ago because of HB and I couldn't have stopped it, you probably found it uncanny that I posted my State of the Alliance just before then. I haven't even been invited to BGA, how could my feelings not be hurt? Everyone swore not to tell me about BGA or who made it, that says mountains. If there is no grudge, no hard feelings, why can't everyone return now that HB is gone? As I just confirmed to Kilrgrn above, HB will be gone at least until 2.0 (which could still be a year away).

If you truly consider yourself loyal to TMA, now that HB is gone, you should be doing everything in your power, as someone that cares so much about TMA, to bring everyone back. That goes to all the admins and ex-staff that are over there now. Show me this was all about HB, and not me. Then I won't take it personally like I am right now. Is that really clouded judgment?

You don't think taking Alliance was in poor taste, and disrespectful to me? No one owns the word, but come on man, of all the words in the world you can use for your site (use a thesaurus), you take that one name from the place you just abandoned? It's insulting, surely you can see that. Taking away my posters is one thing, but the name aswell? Next you're going to tell me there is a Brawl on the Wall over there. I do care about you guys because you are still TM fans, I want you here, not there. Even if here you are only talking about non-TM stuff, doesn't mean sometimes you might talk TM, or some new TM news crops up sparking discussion.

Complete transparency? I gave you that now with this topic. I gave you what you wanted, a simple way for HB to inevitably slip up and get suspended (I won't use the word banned because that would mean permanent); and like clockwork he couldn't hold back and slipped up. I've made it perfectly clear admins have full right to suspend anyone breaking the rules, there is your transparency.

I did chuckle when you said "redheaded step child of TMA", when you post in red. TM was always considered that to Sony, they didn't understand TM. But it made them money, so they kept making them.

BTW I never held any animousity for you since you were demoted, I knew you wanted to get back on staff again, so I expected the best behaviour from you. So it seemed like with your replies to this topic you had not let go of a lot of your issues with me, and you feel I chose HB over you or something. Infact everyone feels like I chose HB over everything, despite outlining new rules to treat everyone equally, like the supposed democracy you left for.

If everyone returns all will be forgiven. We can hold elections and elect new staff mods that will uphold the new rules. Since you're so popular, I'm sure you'll get elected. We can bring back brawl. The first ever TMA election! Dim Shades would love that, right? He's the politics guy. I also want to assign new commishes, and get that stuff going again before 2.0. I'm here now, I'm all ears, I want to get involved in the community more. We need to elect new mods & commishes. I'm all about democracy! But if you're just enjoying BGA too much right now (I understand it is the honeymoon period right now), and this is all bad timing, welcome to the club.

@JobJob

Thanks for the kind words. You do know me on TMX as MorTea_TMA right? We've had many gg's together over the year. I also have many issues with the game (healths, health semi, sniper rifle, talon, suicide bug, diablo pass), but I can put that stuff aside and still greatly enjoy the game. It's like 80/20 split for me most games. End of the day it's car-combat, it's Twisted Metal, and a good one at that; and I love it.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by CopyandPaste_Ninja on 03/29/13 at 01:31:45

JobJob wrote on 03/28/13 at 23:47:07:
Just like to say that you TMA is great place. A lot of like minded people brought together by a game they love.

Mort I don't know you but I respect the hell out of ya, the time you have spent on this site, and the time you have spent for the betterment of Twisted Metal is greatly appreciated. This is coming from someone outside of the TMA community.

While I will say that TM:PS3 was not what we all expected and came with many disappointments. The fact remains that if it wasn't for TMA I don't think this game would of even been made. While it was a shame that the game wasn't embraced by the TMA community, but also for good reasons. It is a shame that this game wasn't really supported past release. That has more to do with Sony then with Jaffe. and to be honest I think we all should be thankful for the efforts that Jaffe put into the game even after being off of Sony's Payroll.

Jaffe might not look at the community as whole with the same light, but I still believe he has respect for you individual Mort. How can he not.  You can not judge 1 person by the actions of a community. Just like you as 1 person can not control a community.

I will still continue to read up on the activity of your site. I look forward to seeing, if you ever decide to release it, TMA 2.0.


just registered to approve this comment.
see you online mort!


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 03/29/13 at 07:17:33
If you truly consider yourself loyal to TMA, now that HB is gone, you should be doing everything in your power, as someone that cares so much about TMA, to bring everyone back. That goes to all the admins and ex-staff that are over there now. Show me this was all about HB, and not me. Then I won't take it personally like I am right now. Is that really clouded judgment?

::::::::::waves hand franticly:::::::::

Uhhhhhh...I never left. Never said I would.

I'm going back to bed.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by lemmywinks on 03/29/13 at 11:48:09
So you are saying no more hellbent for a year or more?

Shit negro, that's all you had to say!

I know I don't post much anyway, because I tend not to post unless I can add something new to the thread, but no hellbent would make everyone happy.  I think.

And we need to be able to post whatever pictures we want, because some threads over at BOG are hilarious because we have no censorship over there.  Because none is needed.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by AfroDizziac on 03/29/13 at 13:26:13
TMA is still a haven of Twisted that cannot be found anywhere else. And although I'm not a frequent poster (since I'm not a brawler), I feel it necessary to show my support for the community. A few Twisted Metals are and will always be either my favorite (TM2 & TM2PC) games of all time or damn close to it (TM1). While I don't yet find TMX as great as TM1 and TM2, I strongly feel that is mostly due to the manner in which it is popularly played (we need more quality unranked matches!).

I believe many of us know Mort's passion for TMA is fueled almost exclusively by TM, otherwise he wouldn't have named it TMA! As long as Mort still loves TM, I think he'll still love TMA. I also don't believe Mort has been treated fairly on this post by some, and it's quite unfortunate. After all, we are all still human even if we just see walls of text from each other... we all make mistakes. And personally, I view Mort's devotion to TMA 2.0 as plenty of evidence for still being loyal to the community.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/29/13 at 17:29:13
“I don't actually believe Xizor has control of 30 people, I'm just playing devil's advocate and just going with that as if it was truth since he says it with such pride; I'm entertaining his reality for arguments sake.”

No I am in control of them. They all wear electronic collars and if they don’t do what I say I electrocute the shit out of them.

“I haven't even been invited to BGA, how could my feelings not be hurt?”

OH! Look who wants to be a part of the Brawl/Cool crowd NOW! Look who’s the traitor NOW! Where is your loyalty to TMA NOW Mort?!

“If you truly consider yourself loyal to TMA, now that HB is gone, you should be doing everything in your power, as someone that cares so much about TMA, to bring everyone back. That goes to all the admins and ex-staff that are over there now. Show me this was all about HB, and not me. Then I won't take it personally like I am right now. Is that really clouded judgment?”

I feel you man and I’m sorry about all this but it is the way it is. Nothing is stopping anyone from posting on both sites. I’m pretty sure at least half the people over there will still check or post on TMA. Pretty much every time I log in to TMA I see at least two or three people that “left” logged in here and its hard to break the habit of 5-10 years of coming to TMA every day, believe me. But, we do have something good going on there right now and I want to see it through whether its just a fad that will fade and people lose interest or it becomes something really great.

“You don't think taking Alliance was in poor taste, and disrespectful to me? No one owns the word, but come on man, of all the words in the world you can use for your site (use a thesaurus), you take that one name from the place you just abandoned?”

It was homage to our roots. It’s a word. Don’t be a baby. Can we call it the Dented Steel Allegiance? Maybe the Crumpled Alloy Coalition? I sort of like The Bastards of Twisted Metal Alliance myself.  :D

“Complete transparency? I gave you that now with this topic.”

Yeah, you gave it to us NOW. Where has it been for the last five years?

“I did chuckle when you said "redheaded step child of TMA", when you post in red.”

Dammit. I didn’t think anyone would pick up on that bit of irony.

“BTW I never held any animousity for you since you were demoted, I knew you wanted to get back on staff again, so I expected the best behaviour from you. So it seemed like with your replies to this topic you had not let go of a lot of your issues with me, and you feel I chose HB over you or something. Infact everyone feels like I chose HB over everything, despite outlining new rules to treat everyone equally, like the supposed democracy you left for.”

I never held any for you either. My statements in this thread were made on behalf of my friends and I and are the culmination of years of pent up feelings and opinions so it probably seems like I’m being aggressive just because I have so much to say all at once. It did kind of seem like you chose Hellbent over us and that you just didn’t care in general.

“HB will be gone at least until 2.0”

That right there is going to be a deal breaker to many people. You do realize that right? As we all know, he can’t help himself. I’m all for second chances but this guy has had thousands of second chances and never taken any of them.

“If everyone returns all will be forgiven. We can hold elections and elect new staff mods that will uphold the new rules. Since you're so popular, I'm sure you'll get elected. We can bring back brawl. The first ever TMA election! Dim Shades would love that, right? He's the politics guy. I also want to assign new commishes, and get that stuff going again before 2.0. I'm here now, I'm all ears, I want to get involved in the community more. We need to elect new mods & commishes. I'm all about democracy! But if you're just enjoying BGA too much right now (I understand it is the honeymoon period right now), and this is all bad timing, welcome to the club.”

Like I said before some of us are still here technically but I see no reason to make a huge push to come back right away. This place seems kind of dead and I think all of us are simply tired of the temp site at this point. For some reason things have almost never been right here and most of the Admins and Mods are tired of deleting spam bots every day. Keeping Brawl clean is like a full time job.

How about we just see if you’ll actually stick around this time and live up to your word first. I think that would be the first step in showing some good faith to the community.

I will however return and take an Admin position if possible at a later time. That way when Hellbent does come back and acts up I can ban him myself and not have to feel one bit of guilt in doing it. You know, to make the hard choices that need to be made so that others don’t have to make them. Because I’m the hero TMA deserves. But not the one it needs right now.


Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mosh on 03/29/13 at 18:26:20

XIZOR wrote on 03/29/13 at 17:29:13:
Because I’m the hero TMA deserves. But not the one it needs right now.





Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by DARKFORCE on 03/29/13 at 18:29:03
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by joe twisted on 03/29/13 at 23:46:47

DARKFORCE wrote on 03/29/13 at 18:29:03:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY


I definitely listened to that from start to finish, and I'm not ashamed

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Serpentine on 03/30/13 at 01:36:41

XIZOR wrote on 03/29/13 at 17:29:13:
Because I’m the hero TMA deserves. But not the one it needs right now.



Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by The Dizaster Child on 03/30/13 at 02:46:33
I'm one of those people that didn't want to delete their profile from here. This place has become like a second home to me, like it has for a lot of people here, and that's not something I can just easily get up and walk away from. Take it for what it is, but at the end of the day, I've been pretty damn loyal to this site. It might not look like it, but I've spent countless hours on TT, not just Brawl.. And not to mention late nights and a ton of time spent writing fanfics for the community to read (and hopefully enjoy). I did all this out of my love for Twisted Metal. I can't speak for everyone, but TM is and always will be the root reason for why I'm still here. Hence why when loyalties are being called out, I got pissed off and made some of the replies here. My reason for leaving was solely because of Hellbent. But it seems like you're finally coming around, or at least I'm hoping that's what the deal is. Now it's time to sit back and see how it pans out.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/30/13 at 04:14:56
@copypaste_ninja

Welcome to the site, played with you many many times over the last year. ggs.

@Magnum

I didn't mean it like that, I meant for our staff that is currently participating over there (and that is most of them), now that HB is no longer here, I would hope you would be trying to get our old posters to return back, so we can rebuild brawl. Hellbent is not here to terrorize you all anymore, it's safe, you can once again sleep at night. The nightmare is over.

@lemmywinks

No censorship? I don't think TMA should be used as a place to post porn (if that's what you mean). I would expect it is offensive to the female posters we have (and have had/lost), and I wouldn't think this would be the right place for it. I haven't been around to police that when it happened here, but from this day forth I want absolutely zero porn on TMA. If BOG allows that then it does have a purpose after all (but again, there are tons of porn sites on the internet...).

@XIZOR

I was just making a point. Clearly there is some animousity against me because I was not invited, the whole thing was kept from me. P7 told me diddly squat, infact went out of his way to tell people NOT to tell me that he was involved. How do I not take this as disloyalty and a slam against me? We were supposed to be friends.

I like those names, good use of that thesaurus!

I'm here now, you can't keep harking back to the fact I wasn't here before as a defense to every argument. I'm trying to do the right thing now, I'm offering you elections, that democracy you love. I'm trying to make right. But you say this place just wasn't right anyway, but BOG is? (whatever that stands for now) So Temp TMA wasn't right without me, I'll take that as a compliment. Well, as I've said and I'll say it again, I'm here now.

On 2.0 HB will be on probation, even if that just means he is only allowed on the TM boards. If he goes back to his old ways then one of our new admins will do the right thing. I can assure you that HB will never be a problem again on TMA, because we are still friends and he understands what happened and his mistakes. He knows he went too far. He's really sorry he caused me all this headache, and I have to believe him. But I'm not giving him another chance if he fucks up again.

TMA is dead right now, because you guys orchestrated a swift exit lol. If you came back, it'll be alive again. As for the spam problem, we could tackle that with a combined effort of nuking all the spam accounts and not letting new ones register. People just have to put themselves up for nomination to be mods, and the elections can begin. Eventually we'd have no spam again, and then it won't feel like a full-time job. But if it just doesn't seem worth it, you can't say I didn't try and offer solutions.

Now you're making me feel like I'm on probation, that I need to prove myself. I haven't done enough already? HB is gone, I've outlined the direction of the site, I've offered elections, and I've been honest about everything. I've heard all your grievances, I've taken responsibility for my mistakes. But everyone here has made mistakes, hindsight is 20/20. It's about moving forward, and not moving away. I've extended the olive branch.

You sound like the perfect admin, where were you all this time? You could have simply banned HB and saved me all this headache. YOU'RE HIRED! It pays in dimes too so you'll like that.

@The_Dizaster_Child

So are we cool now? I don't want to be your enemy, or anyones. I also felt like people felt I wasn't doing enough for the site because I wasn't here, when I was putting in 1000's of hours into 2.0. Time that at times I wanted back after seeing how I was being treated in my absense. But I'm over that now, I just want to move on.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by DARKFORCE on 03/30/13 at 11:21:46
@Mort

I'm sure most would return to the site, but as the site is right now, it's broken.

We've put up with the spam for a while (not nearly as badly as the Mods have) and I think it's safe to say that, we would all rather the site be updated with new software. The site is nearly dead, why not take this chance to update before it becomes full of activity again?

1. New separate boards contained within TT: TMB/O, TMX, TM2 and other TMs

2: Bring BOTW back, I'm sure someone will chime in and say... "WE WANT OUR PORN"...lol.

Make BOTW a mature audience only board, like an "Not responsible for content" type area. There can be some rules, but I wouldn't take the rules to far. Require a minimum of 10 posts (quality, non spam, just to keep n00bs out) before you can post in BOTW.

3: Keep general discussion open for other purposes. New posters, "rule" posts. Anything non TM related, just like BOTW is, but sanitized.

As for mods, I nominate (in no particular order) Roadie, P7, Xiz, KillerGreen and myself....
Everyone listed loves TMA and some even love TM more than TMA.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by XIZOR on 03/30/13 at 18:02:35

joe twisted wrote on 03/29/13 at 23:46:47:
I definitely listened to that from start to finish, and I'm not ashamed


You are not alone Joe so don’t feel ashamed. I think everyone is guilty of jock rocking their life from time to time with a good old 80’s movie montage style power ballad.

“No censorship? I don't think TMA should be used as a place to post porn (if that's what you mean). I would expect it is offensive to the female posters we have (and have had/lost), and I wouldn't think this would be the right place for it. I haven't been around to police that when it happened here, but from this day forth I want absolutely zero porn on TMA. If BOG allows that then it does have a purpose after all (but again, there are tons of porn sites on the internet...)”

We don’t just post straight up porn but we had a thread here and have one at BoG where Playboy level pictures and links only to anything controversial are posted in it. We try and keep it classy even though it doesn’t matter at BoG but to be honest, it’s a pretty popular thread. Nightshade always allowed it here as long as we weren’t crossing the line and we always tried to respect that. Female posters aren’t offended by this, or at least not Nina, and Roadie is always free to post sexy dudes in it to keep things equal.  ;)

“Clearly there is some animousity against me because I was not invited, the whole thing was kept from me. P7 told me diddly squat, infact went out of his way to tell people NOT to tell me that he was involved. How do I not take this as disloyalty and a slam against me? We were supposed to be friends.”

Come on man. Do you really think anyone wanted to be the one to hurt your feelings and tell you we started another site made up almost entirely of ex-TMA members from the regulars all the way up to the staff? Of course they didn’t. And you can be mad at P7 all you want for what seems like stabbing you in the back but to be honest he was just looking out for the community because we all thought TMA was just a lost cause at that point in time.

Again, you are making it seem like the point was to get away from you when you clearly know better. You weren’t invited for what should be a plethora of obvious reasons, but the main one is simply that, like you’ve admitted, you were never concerned with being apart of the Brawl crowd. You haven’t posted on Brawl in an eternity. What on earth would make any of us think you would suddenly be interested in joining the group other than to just poke around and see if anything was being said about you at the other site?

And that last line “we were supposed to be friends”. Yeah, we WERE supposed to be friends. A few people here are your friends, but most of us are just your “friend” by association and don’t really know you all that well, especially the newer posters. Let me put it to you this way. Have you ever had a good friend who you didn’t talk to for many years, and then when you see them again later on down the line you’re like “oh, hey, what’s up man” and you respect each other and the history you shared together, but its not quite the same. You’ve both probably changed and you’ve been out of touch for so long that you don’t really know how to properly relate any more? That’s sort of what this is like if that makes any sense. The Brawl crowd has changed a bit since you last remember it. Different people, different vibe, new posters that you don’t know and a whole four year history of things that you don’t have a clue about from inside jokes, to important events that shaped us into what we’ve become. So to expect everyone to be your best friend just because you showed up suddenly is a bit unrealistic. Again,  please, please don’t think I’m being an ass. I’m not saying that to be mean at all. Just trying to give you a different perspective on it.

“I'm here now, you can't keep harking back to the fact I wasn't here before as a defense to every argument.”

We don’t mean to keep harking back to that, but it is a perfectly reasonable argument that is the root cause of almost all these problems. We’ve squashed that at this point I think and we understand that you regret that you weren’t around, but admitting it doesn’t change the fact.

And to be honest, personally, I don’t find your reason/excuse to be completely foolproof. I mean, I understand you were working hard on 2.0 all this time, but didn’t you ever just take a break and make a sandwich and think, “you know, I’m working on this new TMA thing, I wonder what the actual TMA is up to”? No? Never? You never had a single minute of free time just to pop in ever? No one can refute how hard you were working on 2.0 or Project X because we don’t really know, but to say you NEVER had time to post here? Come on. That’s ludicrous.

“TMA is dead right now, because you guys orchestrated a swift exit lol.”

OH! Look who is right on the cusp of admitting who is the real lifeblood around here. Go on. Tell us how pretty we all are and how much you love us. I myself am not above flattery Mr. Mort.

“You sound like the perfect admin, where were you all this time? You could have simply banned HB and saved me all this headache. YOU'RE HIRED! It pays in dimes too so you'll like that.”

Uh….I was here, fighting Hellbent in the trenches like the rest of us but I didn’t have the power to strike the final blow. And I sound like the perfect Admin? Duh. That’s because I would be.  8-)

I also feel like DARKFORCE’s terms are pretty reasonable and agreeable.

“Now you're making me feel like I'm on probation, that I need to prove myself.”

That’s right Mortimer. YOU’RE ON MODERATION SUCKA!

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 03/30/13 at 18:45:47
Admin Zixor:

Now stfu and stay here. I haven't even read your post yet but will in 2 minutes.
Flit between both sites but help keep TMA alive please.

Hoping that the last few replies from peeps have helped clear the air and rekindle old friendships?*






*I'm pissed (drunk)


EDIT: you ARE the lifeblood, extremely handsome and morts already been banned. ;)

Right guys can we all start over? :)

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/31/13 at 02:19:56
@DARKFORCE

I've been planning on upgrading YABB to the latest version and hope that fixes the spam problem, but I won't be changing the forum system itself between now and 2.0 (e.g. to whatever you're using at BOG). Why? Because I don't particularly want to have to convert forum posts from 2 seperate forums (yabb is pretty simple txt file system) to 2.0, especially if you had another more professional forum system in mind to replace this (which uses mysql or something then things get a lot more complicated to convert forums).

1. We will be doing that.

2. Mature audience... hmmm... because brawl was so immature. Gotcha!

3. That's a good idea, I didn't think to do that initially. So we keep Gen Disc as is, then Brawl as the spin-off board for mature content that has stricter admittance (with someone acting as a bouncer), and we can move all those brawl topics over from gen disc. I'll talk it over with Night IF HE WAS ONLINE.

I'd accept your nominations if everyone returns and leaves the new site, because I want this place to serve all your needs like it did before. BOG is redundant now if you all come back and we get these elections started. I don't see the point you guys going back and forth between 2 sites serving the same purpose, do you? Especially if I make all these changes for you. But you might all still need more time to make that decision.

@XIZOR

I'm fine with that as long as things were kept classy, but at the same time I don't want to offend people. Some religous people, the pope, and plenty of the gays/ladies don't want to look at that shit, just like we don't want to look at 'sexy dudes'. But if they're super progressive and don't have a problem with it, I'm fine. Especially if Brawl becomes a 'basement' type forum with stricter admittance.

I don't have any hard feelings for you guys that left, you were just escaping to a place free of HB. But when you are the guy (P7 in this case) that provides this place, and you're good friends and respect the guy that founded the place you left, the least you could do is let him know first so it doesn't hit him like a bus. P7 had a responsibility to let me know and he chose not to. Infact he still hasn't explained anything to me. What does that say?

I was talking about P7 & myself were friends. Sure I'm friends with everyone here by association, and the fact we're all TM fans. You're all my twisted motherfuckers! But myself & HB, like myself & P7, have more of a personal relationship, and I just expected more from P7. Especially after all I've done for him, but whatever he's made his bed I've made mine.

::eats sandwich:: Reason for no updates wasn't about lack of time, I'd already made the decision I had to finish 2.0 before I posted. So much time passed that TMX came out, so I had to post or it would look even worse. Once you make a committment to something, a decision, you have to stick by it. Not everything people do in this world requires some huge explanation, sometimes the simple ones are the most truthful. ::eats another sandwich:: I'm not gonna make up some big elaborate bunch of excuses to get more understanding, it was just a bad call controlled my by focus and determination to finish 2.0 as my return. ::eats last sandwich:: I also didn't even think I was that important to TMA as a poster, but obviously I was mistaken. I was happy to let you guys run the roost, and if anyone needed me for anything I'm only a keystroke away. I didn't realise people wanted more from me than just finishing 2.0.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by James P7 on 03/31/13 at 02:54:39

Mortimer wrote on 03/31/13 at 02:19:56:
@DARKFORCE

I've been planning on upgrading YABB to the latest version and hope that fixes the spam problem, but I won't be changing the forum system itself between now and 2.0 (e.g. to whatever you're using at BOG). Why? Because I don't particularly want to have to convert forum posts from 2 seperate forums (yabb is pretty simple txt file system) to 2.0, especially if you had another more professional forum system in mind to replace this (which uses mysql or something then things get a lot more complicated to convert forums).

1. We will be doing that.

2. Mature audience... hmmm... because brawl was so immature. Gotcha!

3. That's a good idea, I didn't think to do that initially. So we keep Gen Disc as is, then Brawl as the spin-off board for mature content that has stricter admittance (with someone acting as a bouncer), and we can move all those brawl topics over from gen disc. I'll talk it over with Night IF HE WAS ONLINE.

I'd accept your nominations if everyone returns and leaves the new site, because I want this place to serve all your needs like it did before. BOG is redundant now if you all come back and we get these elections started. I don't see the point you guys going back and forth between 2 sites serving the same purpose, do you? Especially if I make all these changes for you. But you might all still need more time to make that decision.

@XIZOR

I'm fine with that as long as things were kept classy, but at the same time I don't want to offend people. Some religous people, the pope, and plenty of the gays/ladies don't want to look at that shit, just like we don't want to look at 'sexy dudes'. But if they're super progressive and don't have a problem with it, I'm fine. Especially if Brawl becomes a 'basement' type forum with stricter admittance.

I don't have any hard feelings for you guys that left, you were just escaping to a place free of HB. But when you are the guy (P7 in this case) that provides this place, and you're good friends and respect the guy that founded the place you left, the least you could do is let him know first so it doesn't hit him like a bus. P7 had a responsibility to let me know and he chose not to. Infact he still hasn't explained anything to me. What does that say?

I was talking about P7 & myself were friends. Sure I'm friends with everyone here by association, and the fact we're all TM fans. You're all my twisted motherfuckers! But myself & HB, like myself & P7, have more of a personal relationship, and I just expected more from P7. Especially after all I've done for him, but whatever he's made his bed I've made mine.

::eats sandwich:: Reason for no updates wasn't about lack of time, I'd already made the decision I had to finish 2.0 before I posted. So much time passed that TMX came out, so I had to post or it would look even worse. Once you make a committment to something, a decision, you have to stick by it. Not everything people do in this world requires some huge explanation, sometimes the simple ones are the most truthful. ::eats another sandwich:: I'm not gonna make up some big elaborate bunch of excuses to get more understanding, it was just a bad call controlled my by focus and determination to finish 2.0 as my return. ::eats last sandwich:: I also didn't even think I was that important to TMA as a poster, but obviously I was mistaken. I was happy to let you guys run the roost, and if anyone needed me for anything I'm only a keystroke away. I didn't realise people wanted more from me than just finishing 2.0.

Screw you guys, I'm going home.


I dont know what you are talking about. I replied to your long ass email where you told me you were disgusted by me and told me you no longer wanted me to be your friend. I replied to that and havent had a response from you in almost 3 days. I figured didnt reply because you actually came to your senses or was actually ashamed, didnt bother coming up with a reply, or cooking up some huge ass email for me to read again.

Either way, it does not matter. The community still exists. You wouldnt believe me if I told you 100 times that you were not available when I wanted to discuss with you. So, what do I do? If you want to keep playing the blame game, it isnt going to work. I refuse to get shit on at TMA again. TMAers were jumping ship before BoG was even created. That is a fact. If you want me to continue, please keep throwing my name under the bus. but what you said to me Mort in that email of yours was horrible. Absolutely horrible. My stomach was in knots from your heartless words for hours.

Just read what I sent you days ago. I replied to your email. Mod perl.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 03/31/13 at 05:43:06

Psycho Se7eN wrote on 03/31/13 at 02:54:39:
I dont know what you are talking about. I replied to your long ass email where you told me you were disgusted by me and told me you no longer wanted me to be your friend. I replied to that and havent had a response from you in almost 3 days. I figured didnt reply because you actually came to your senses or was actually ashamed, didnt bother coming up with a reply, or cooking up some huge ass email for me to read again.

Either way, it does not matter. The community still exists. You wouldnt believe me if I told you 100 times that you were not available when I wanted to discuss with you. So, what do I do? If you want to keep playing the blame game, it isnt going to work. I refuse to get shit on at TMA again. TMAers were jumping ship before BoG was even created. That is a fact. If you want me to continue, please keep throwing my name under the bus. but what you said to me Mort in that email of yours was horrible. Absolutely horrible. My stomach was in knots from your heartless words for hours.

Just read what I sent you days ago. I replied to your email. Mod perl.


Dear P7,

I never got any email reply from you, I've been waiting for 3 days now.

You said you had this 'whole plan' to tell me, well you had plenty of time to tell me this plan weeks ago and never did. I'm online nearly all the time. You could have emailed me even if you're really going to use that excuse, but apparently my email doesn't work anymore because I don't have your reply.

TMA'ers were jumping ship? Says the guy that made the ship and never told me about it.

I'm sorry you felt hurt but you hurt me first so that's what happens. Don't hurt people first, explain things to them before hand. You went about it completely wrong and greatly insulted me with your actions. Then you get hurt I don't want to be your friend anymore? Please.

Still nothing from you in my inbox, check your Drafts maybe?

Yours sincerely,
Huge Ass Emailer.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Kilrgrn on 03/31/13 at 16:19:48
I was going to say I've posted tasteful porn, but if I don't want to see anything, I just don't look in that thread. Simple as that really.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by James P7 on 03/31/13 at 20:22:35

Mortimer wrote on 03/31/13 at 05:43:06:
Dear P7,

I never got any email reply from you, I've been waiting for 3 days now.

You said you had this 'whole plan' to tell me, well you had plenty of time to tell me this plan weeks ago and never did. I'm online nearly all the time. You could have emailed me even if you're really going to use that excuse, but apparently my email doesn't work anymore because I don't have your reply.

TMA'ers were jumping ship? Says the guy that made the ship and never told me about it.

I'm sorry you felt hurt but you hurt me first so that's what happens. Don't hurt people first, explain things to them before hand. You went about it completely wrong and greatly insulted me with your actions. Then you get hurt I don't want to be your friend anymore? Please.

Still nothing from you in my inbox, check your Drafts maybe?

Yours sincerely,
Huge Ass Emailer.



Now, it was sent a 4th time. Check your spam.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 04/01/13 at 01:27:42
I'm not logging into my ISP website to check a 'spam' folder. How about you send me email that isn't considered spam. You've sent me emails before, why is it considered spam now? Just PM me your reply already.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Reaper on 04/01/13 at 02:38:29

Mortimer wrote on 03/24/13 at 10:00:23:
@Reaper

Is that you? Security guard Reaper? Dan the Man? Old-TMA ex-TM Commish come Admin? Long time no see. Why didn't you ban HB back then?! It's all your fault!


Yeah, it's me. Lieutenant Dan, the guy who sat in chat like it was his job because his job let him sit in the chat. And yes, I did Commish for some time, but I was never an Admin. Simply a mod.

Speaking of which, I offer to help with the spam bots if you all are still looking for a solution. I don't stay long, and I tend to skim over the drama bits, but deleting posts that don't belong seems easy enough.

And I have not come to defend you because I just didn't think you needed it...

...and because the last time I was here was when I last replied.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoketPowered on 04/02/13 at 14:23:02
sup Dan the Man, good to see you alive dude.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Reaper on 04/05/13 at 03:26:23
Hey, Kiddo, long time no see.

Last I heard, you were getting married. Did that happen?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoketPowered on 04/05/13 at 16:46:32
yep been married a year and have a 4 month kid :]

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Reaper on 04/07/13 at 03:57:48
Congratulations, my friend.

Looks like things here have died down some.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoketPowered on 04/08/13 at 04:04:54
its too bad because I love this place.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Rab1d on 04/10/13 at 14:39:32

Mortimer wrote on 03/26/13 at 02:20:27:
It's just amazing that Rabid somehow managed to avoid me for that first year (when pretty much everyone was just playing DM/relics/unlim), I played every day for months.



Didn't you only have dial up for the first year? I hardly ever joined 1v1 games.



Mortimer wrote on 03/26/13 at 02:20:27:
It was ZH, TM2, then a huge gap, then TMBO or whatever other game he might have played without me.


Yes this is accurate, but I did a lot of gaming back then.  I def remember playing your [TM2] clan a whole bunch, don't you remember that?

I lot of my game time was spent playing with fellow A9 members.  Trying to formulate strategies and get comfortable playing together as a team.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Surgeon -Rymagician- on 04/16/13 at 01:09:30
I'm diggin the new Brawl.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Road-Kill_3197 on 04/17/13 at 12:05:00
:o Holy shit! Over 270 pages of this spam bot crap! Wtf, this whole site needs to be nuked.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Mortimer on 04/17/13 at 17:23:49

Road-Kill_3197 wrote on 04/17/13 at 12:05:00:
:o Holy shit! Over 270 pages of this spam bot crap! Wtf, this whole site needs to be nuked.


Wait, the non-TM forum of this TM fansite is overflowing with spam, so the WHOLE site needs to be nuked? Yeah I'll get right onto that.

But seriously, the spam problem will be taken care of swiftly once the upgraded forums transition over. Spam will be history. For now the mods are just focused on spam that is on TT, and not brawl (since the brawl community left to another forum anyway). When the upgrades go live there will be new boards for TMX and TMB, and the real brawl will be back with zero spam. Hopefully then the brawl community will return.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by RoketPowered on 04/20/13 at 03:39:01
like to point out that it is nice to see a change of the boards, nice to be back to old school TMA.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Maggot on 08/18/13 at 19:27:25
This is bullshit! Why did my post to you regarding Brawl on the Wall get taken down?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Archminion on 08/18/13 at 23:26:17
Because your post was bullshit, behave or fuck off

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Pyrinder on 08/19/13 at 03:11:32
I just read a good portion of this thread. And I have to say...holy shit.

WHAT DID I READ?!

As the TMA Turns? The Guiding TMA? What?

Slight joking aside, I am piecing together where everyone was coming from even if it's that long ago. God, I knew I had a reason to shun almost everyone, save for Kilrgrn, who was from TMA just away from me. But from what I felt at the time was senseless, this is probably a good reason why. Besides, focusing on life before that got out of control.

Otherwise, I know there is some good people here who I've played with and personally talked to on an off and on basis on IMs. I just don't normally ignore or simply forget about people unless I had a remote of a reason to. If it meant to get away from this, then so be it. But, I'm reading this and I feel compelled to have a little word in on it, sorry it's late. VERY Late, apparently.

I take back everything I've said about the whole promising about 2.0 or hell the things I've said just not too long ago before reading this thread over at the Ghost Town thread in BOTW. Not to mention, sincere apologies that my loyalty hasn't exactly been a strongpoint besides simply just being a mere regular. I do get my enjoyability by feeling a part of the crew mainly through the games themselves.

At this point though, I am still remaining on neutral ground with a lot of people. If sides had to be taken when necessary, my own side is what I end up picking through thick and thin. And anything I've ever done on this site through it's history are just mainly memories and they're just that. I'd be lucky to even remember half of them by now.

Anyways, even when I don't express it, but I did and do appreciate what TMA stood for as well as what it meant to me. I say "did" because I'm meaning about how this was geared as a fan site and for people to come in and share their similar interests. I don't know what to think now, especially when some are saying it's all but gone and what has transpired. I don't necessarily think so. But that's just me, really.

So, yeah...

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Maggot on 08/19/13 at 04:27:34

Archminion wrote on 08/18/13 at 23:26:17:
Because your post was bullshit, behave or fuck off
Oh, okay. Sorry about that.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 08/20/13 at 07:15:35

Archminion wrote on 08/18/13 at 23:26:17:
Because your post was bullshit, behave or fuck off


Agreed

2nd ed.

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by SynthR on 07/13/18 at 20:53:43
Let's do a retrospective to see how the dust settled on this epic? ... Hello? ... Anyone?

Title: Re: State of the Alliance address - March, 2013
Post by Magnum on 07/15/18 at 20:17:43
YOU SHUT UP!!!!

No one needs your making sense around here! It's offensive!

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